Easy to rail this?

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AZAviator

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IMO: The dust-cover mounts for the AK & SKS rifles are practically worthless, or worse then that.

Dust-covers move, and have to come off to clean the weapon.
That means the optic never returns to the same place twice in a row.

The only ones that hold zero are drilled & tapped and screwed to the receiver.
But they still have to be removed for cleaning, so there goes the zero again.

It appears the stock on the rifle you linked has plenty of cooling slots in the forearm where you could attach a rail on each side of the stock. At least they won't move around like a dust-cover mount.
http://www.botachtactical.com/mosydem4ha.html

Pretty sure the AK guys will be along shortly to offer better suggestions for rails though.


BTW: Laser sights are only good for close range in low light.
Outside in broad daylight, you are lucky to be able to see a red laser past 15 yards or so.
I'd spend the money on practice ammo if it was me!

rc
 
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Well the laser idea is more for looks, not precision. The other idea would be a laser dot scope. They also sell these for pretty cheap and I could see why you would want a more precise mount system for that.

Like I said, Ive never mounted rails before, is it straight forward with 2 screws or a PITA?
 
Something like this?

AMD65ACR2-SC.jpg
http://www.ultimak.com/ACR2Compact.htm

Only problem is, just the lower rail is $220. (ouch!)

Here's a cheaper design, upper and lower rail for $69 (if I read it correctly) for an AMD-65:

animhg465.gif

http://www.militarygunsupply.com/shop2/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=783

Don't forget the rail covers for the sections of rail you're not using.

BTW, does your rifle have the Warsaw Pact optics siderail on the left side of the receiver?
 
As the good comrade says:

KeepthatcrapoffmyAK.jpg

:D

Normally, I'd refrain, but when the OP says:

Well the laser idea is more for looks, not precision.

I fully believe the good comrade's point is warranted.

-Sam
 
Um right, anyway. That second rail system looks like a good deal benEzra, I like the ease of installation. Only problem is it removes the stock foregrip but I could always purchase a new one or possibly even reattach the old one? Not sure if it is a rail system mount.

FYI I dont actually own this gun, yet. If I purchase it will be the one linked at the beginning.

EDIT: Oh 1 more question, the receiver cover mount system - Im noticing some say see thru and others are not see thru. What the hell are they talking about?
 
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I have the UTG Quad Rail system on my AKM and it works great! I can recommend it. It hasn't changed zero after a case a half of Wolf and Silver Bear. That means it's still minute of barn door at 100yrds everytime, yippie!
 
Im noticing some say see thru and others are not see thru. What the hell are they talking about?

It means that the position of the scope is elevated over a tunnel or channel so that you can still peek under it and see the iron sights. It would be useful if the scope gets damaged or you don't wish to use it for some reason.

The more current and "tactical" approach to solving that problem is to use optical sights that "co-witness" -- which means that your (low-powered, obviously) scope is mounted low enough so that the red dot or center of the rectical appears to sit directly on the aligned iron sights which are still clearly visible through the scope itself. It is tricky to do with an AK.

The biggest problem is that the AK really isn't ergonomically optimized to shoot this way. Especially an AMD. The wire stock doesn't give the world's best "cheek weld", even with the iron sights. (Meaning if your head is down on the stock in a normal shooting position, is your eye aligned with the sights?) Many of these mounts (I'd say ALL of the top-cover ones at least.) position the scope quite a bit higher than the iron sights, thus requiring you to move your head up off the stock some. A "See-Thru" mount will sit even higher to make room for the tunnel underneath of it.

The UltimAK system holds the scope down to just about the most ergonomically correct position possible. Notice how the ocular bell of the scope in that picture sits almost at the level of the rear sight behind it. Not quite level with it, but close.

Now look at the UTG one. See how that scope floats up in the air a 1/2" or more above the sighting plane? Now look at how that wire stock sits so much lower than the receiver cover. Imagine your cheek resting on that wire and you peeking up, up, up until you can peer through the scope. There are modified shooting stances that can account for this (using a "chin weld" instead of a cheek weld, for example) and one of them might work for you.

If it was my money, I'd get the gun if you like the AMD styling and shoot it. Figure out what about it you do and don't like in it's original form. Then, when you have some experience with it, decide which "problems" you need to solve with aftermarket equipment. You may find that the gun runs well for you just as it came from the factory. Then you'll have saved a lot of money you can then spend on ammo to get more practice! Or you may find that the gun isn't comfortable to shoot anyway, and buying more stuff for it isn't going to help you shoot it better.

The AMDs (with their folding stocks, short barrels, forward vertical (-ish) grips, etc.) represent a series of compromises to meet some military needs that might not be important for you. They were not designed with user comfort, precision, or "shootability" as first priority. I'd encourage you to get the gun and see how well you shoot it and like it. IF you like it, then decide what it needs to make it perform better in your hands.

Good luck!

-Sam
 
Only problem is it removes the stock foregrip but I could always purchase a new one or possibly even reattach the old one? Not sure if it is a rail system mount.
The original foregrip is just a heat shield; you might could rig up some sort of improvised mount, but the design predates rails by many years. You can put plastic covers on the exposed portions of rail to give you an AR-style forend to grip.

I would avoid receiver-cover mounts like the plague; they are worthless for anything except looks, IMO.

If the AMD-65 has an optics rail on the left side of the receiver (Warsaw Pact style), then you can fit various Warsaw Pact design optics to it without modifying the rifle at all, like this Kobra optic on a Romanian SAR-1:

med_gallery_260_23_20379.jpg


I currently have mine configured like this, using a Tapco Galil-style forend with a rail segment on the left side so I could add a Surefire light:

gallery_260_23_7142.jpg


med_gallery_260_23_138.jpg


BTW, Sam1911's advice is very good. I will say that the Eastern-bloc folding stocks (like the Romanian wire folder on mine) are not designed for a cheek weld; you have to shoot from a more heads-up position, which works fine but may take some getting used to if you are used to shooting full-stocked rifles.
 
Thanks alot for those replies guys. I understand now what the see thru thing means, as soon as 1911 said its raised, I get it now. Very good advice, nice pics ben. I like your AMD but Im going for a slightly different look (more aggressive?). I do like the forward quad rails, they make the gun look more AR.

BTW I saw the wire stock as being ugly and uncomfortable looking right away. Not sure, Ill see when I buy it. Thinking about getting an AR stock for the AMD, but Im not sure how it will fit http://www.floridagunworks.com/Merc...&Product_Code=559&Category_Code=AKA+AK+STOCKS

It says for AK and AK varients- as far as I know the AMD is basically a tactical AK47. So it should work right?
 
as far as I know the AMD is basically a tactical AK47
No. And in this context the word you're looking for is "tacti-coooool". :rolleyes: :D

You should definitely read this thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=439447

The AMD has a unique rear trunion that is quite different from the standard AKM style with a rear tang to accept the wooden butt-stock.

As far as I know, there are no replacement stocks that could bolt up to an AMD. You would need to drill out the rivets that hold the AMD trunion in the receiver and then install a new trunion, drill new holes, and install new rivits.

This is a pretty complicated operation and will, at best, leave a few empty holes in the receiver shell of your gun. I've not read any accounts of folks doing this, so I can't say for sure that it will work at all. In theory, it would, but there may be a number of issues that would get in the way.

BenEzra's middle picture is NOT of an AMD, but an AKM with a Romanian (?) wire folding stock probably originally built for a Tantal. They bolt up to the AKM rear trunion. Notice how the hinge point of his stock sits farther back than on the AMD where it is actually IN the receiver?

Also AMDs (in original configuration) have a barrel shorter than the NFA legal length in this country. They are all fitted with permanantly attached long flash hider to get around that. So, unless you find one with a swapped-in longer barrel (or a US made barrel that is longer to start with) you probably won't see one without that long flash hider.

I like your AMD but Im going for a slightly different look (more aggressive?).
:scrutiny:

Couldn't you just weld some big spikes on it? Maybe add a sword bayonet? Or, perhaps it needs a "Mr. Yuk" sticker? I think I saw a conversion somewhere that makes it so when you pull the trigger a little flag pops out of the barrel and says "BANG!"

:D

-Sam
 
What Sam1911 said. If you want an AR-style stock, you'll want something other than an AMD, like a basic SAR/WASR (mine in the photos above is a SAR-1, 2002 model), a converted Saiga (nicer fit and finish), or similar. Tapco makes an inexpensive M4-style stock for the AK, Ace makes one that is more durable (the Tapco won't stand up to abuse).
 
Well I guess it comes down to what I want to spend at this time. I could probably find an OK AK47 for about the same price as that AMD, but I really dont like the look of one stock which means Im digging into tactical upgrades right away. The AMD already has an aggressive look to it and with something like a quad rail this isnt too far away http://media.photobucket.com/image/AMD 65 tactical/AKCrazy123/100_0148.jpg Thats a mean looking AMD by the way.

If you guys have links to AKM style guns being sold for around $500 I would be interested.
 
I do like the forward quad rails, they make the gun look more AR.
They also significantly change the balance of the rifle. If you want a forward vertical grip as well, you have to keep it pretty far forward since the magazines rock into place. Some people like it that way, but I really felt like I was muscling the gun around with it out there. I ended up taking the rails off, putting the Arsenal handguard with heat shield on instead, and have never looked back.
 
100_0148.jpg

Have you ever seen a lifted XJ Jeep running 35"s, lockers, rock rails, 9000lb Winch, and just a touch of rock-rash ... AND a huge spoiler, a hood-scoop, some 22" spinners, and an airbrushed mural of a lingerie model killing a dragon with a flame-thrower?

Just curious. :D

In all seriousness, I agree with John. All those gizmos and gadgets come at a cost. Getting to know the gun and learn to run it, as is, will give you the insight to choose carefully what mechanical aids may help you to run it better/faster. Simply throwing a bunch of "aggressive" looking crap at it before you get to know it for what it is may just leave you with an off-balance, unwieldy, silly-looking gun you don't even like to shoot.

-Sam
 
Just curious, but do you want a practical, lightweight , fun to shoot little carbine...or the big black, mean, "assault rifle" to show off to your friends? If you want the former, keep it simple, avoid rails lest you want a light for defense and such, and definitely loose the idea of the laser. A red laser is possibly the most pointless trinket ever inflicted upon the rifle. If you want the later...airsoft is much cheaper from what I hear. :)
 
I personally would avoid using a rail other than one factory installed on the side of the reciever or I do like Midwest industries new rail that they have out because it mounts directly to the barrel and has no other mounting points. Both products are easy to find and it would be well worth your money to spend the extra $300.00 and buy a factory mounted system, because you are more than likely going to have a much more accurate rifle.
 
The AMD already has an aggressive look to it and with something like a quad rail this isnt too far away http://media.photobucket.com/image/A...3/100_0148.jpg Thats a mean looking AMD by the way.

100_0148.jpg
On that rifle, I like the optic, the flashlight, and the Hogue pistol grip. The rest of the stuff, I could do without; it will be EXTREMELY nose-heavy, slow to point/transition, and slow to reload. Not saying it's not a neat looking range toy, but it's not particularly practical.

I would personally prefer something like this (Arsenal SLR107FR belonging to THR member briansmithwins, and yes that is a sidefolding stock):

slr107fr.jpg

or this, belonging to MTMilitiaman, with a left-side foregrip rail for a light and a sidefolding M4-style buttstock, if I read it right (though again I don't care for the vertical foregrip, but to each his own):

AKKobraleftside.jpg

And my SAR-1 again, with Kobra, Romanian sidefolder, and Tapco forend with Surefire:

gallery_260_23_38037.jpg


gallery_260_23_7142.jpg


Do keep in mind also that folding stocks are not for shooting a la the "A team", but for storage and transport. When shooting, the stock will be extended, so any weight you hang on the rifle's forend will be supported solely by your left arm if you are right handed. That gets really old after a while.
 
Do keep in mind also that folding stocks are not for shooting a la the "A team", but for storage and transport. When shooting, the stock will be extended, so any weight you hang on the rifle's forend will be supported solely by your left arm if you are right handed. That gets really old after a while.
AMEN, I love a nice folding stock (on the right firearm of course), but they are mainly for backpacking and/or to facilitate a shorter OAL for traversing rough terrain on foot...not for firing "a la the A-Team". :)
 
Just curious, but do you want a practical, lightweight , fun to shoot little carbine...or the big black, mean, "assault rifle" to show off to your friends?

Actually I want both. I dont see what the big deal is with having a good looking tactical AK/AR that looks aggressive and to be honest, the soviet wood stocks of coldwar era guns just look Fugly IMO. Ive fired my friends M4 several times and its a mean looking weapon. Same friend also has an AK47, with all composite stock and grips. Also a very solid weapon (although I havent fired it). The AMD65 really looks like the best balance for what I want.

To the other poster, I didnt say I was going to put all this sh.t on my gun right away, Im just doing homework..
 
Well, put it on and see how you like it. It may work well for you. It didn't for me, so I thought I'd pass that along.
 
I dont see what the big deal is with having a good looking tactical AK/AR that looks aggressive

The "big deal" really isn't one. Of course you may buy whatever gun you want and put on it any thing you want -- it's a free country.

There's a certain aesthetic which may be more prevalent here on THR than other places in the web, of being "past" the tactical fan-boy craze, if you will pardon the expression. You will find here, if you stick around for a while, that folks are very focused on the most practical, effective, reasonable, "professional" way of doing things. And many of the folks here have spent, and continue to spend, a lot of time testing products or systems out to see if they really help the shooter perform a task better/faster, or not. There is also a general trend towards simplicity which goes hand-in-hand with that performance fetish. Basically, if it works and is effective, people here will embrace it. If it is junk, or it is heavy/awkward, or it is neutral but doesn't improve anything but the lightness of your wallet, it is NOT embraced here.

I mentioned the Jeep thing because you've listed a lifted XJ in your sig. (I've had two. Locked both ends, 5" lift, home-made skids and rails, plenty of rock-rash.) I'm sure you've seen how some folks will run to PepBoys and buy a shopping cart full of chromed plastic doo-dads to stick on their car/truck to make it look "more aggressive" or faster, etc. Well, in the gun world, THR is the OPPOSITE of that. See what I mean?

That has a tendency to strip away concerns about how "aggressive" things look. In fact, few members of this community would actually admit to having considered "looks" in any purchase beyond that of a classic hunting rifle or revolver. Looks don't win matches. Looks don't bring a soldier out of a firefight. Looks don't scare off some bad guy.

So, to say "awesome! That gun looks MEAN!" here is going to be received with a lot of raised eyebrows and eyerolls. The subtle (or not so subtle) reply will be, "does it look MEAN enough to make up for all those misses?" Some folks might go so far as to ask if your Mommy knows you're on the computer again! ;)

Further, if looks are considered at all here, you may see a bit of a tendency in the other direction. We all generally see ourselves as abassadors of responsible firearms ownership to the masses. Many of our guns are inherantly "dangerous" looking to the uneducated, but that "dangerous" look comes not due to some artificial "meanness" aesthetic that we strive for, but due to the orientation of the componants required to make the weapon function as it needs to. In fact, the idea of making a weapon look MORE aggressive than it needs to be flies in the face of our desire to set the nation at ease about guns and our interests and activities with them in general. Some guns are just "scary" looking to some folks. Making them more so -- without a purpose -- does not help us at all.

That was the implied meaning of my little jab about welding on some spikes and adding a sword-bayonet. Why add crap to your gun to make it look "meaner?" If you need an upgrade to accomplish faster hits, so be it. If you're looking to horrorfy it up so you can frighten your neighbors, shame on you. See the difference?

In the end, it's your gun -- do what you wish. And don't abandon THR because we don't get your way of thinking. There's far more to be learned here than you'd believe possible. If any of my little jokes have offended you, I apologize.

-Sam
 
Sam, I dont think you understand my meaning, I own 2 war rifles, one which I have completely rebuilt and refinished the wood but kept completely stock. The other (1944 mauser, original german) is a work in progress. I appreciate good guns and effective methods to using them.

Nice post tho
 
AZAviator, how many rounds have you put through an AK? None? Some? A lot?

Before you buy the AMD for the "looks", find somebody who has one and shoot it. You may end up HATING the stock. Also check out a standard fixed stock AK.

There are aftermarket side folders for the AK, there are aftermarket collapsible stock adaptors (so you get the AR-15 style stock, and some of these also fold). And there are both wood and synthetic fixed stocks (which I recommend as being the most comfortable to shoot) of a few varying styles. Quality versions of all three exist, and so do absolutely ****ty versions.

Personally, I really like the looks of a wood stocked AK, but I also like the looks of a nice synthetic stocked AK, too.

Figure out which stock would best work for you, buy that rifle, and then shoot it a lot before going for the stuff to addon. I also really, really advise saving your money and buying quality instead of "looks". There's a lot of crap out there for both the AR and AK rifles. Save a little more, choose carefully, and buy quality, and you'll have something that is is worth a damn, works very well, and yes, looks pretty cool.


If you guys have links to AKM style guns being sold for around $500 I would be interested.

It's called the WASR. It's a Romanian made AKM style rifle, wood furniture, for that price. Shoot it for a while, then upgrade if you really see the need. Imported by Century Arms, sold by many.

Don't pay the current asking price for it, though. Dealers are still caught up in the frenzy. It was selling for $400-450 before last November, don't pay more than that.
 
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