Economics of casting?

[WestKentucky]

Sorry for the thread drift.
There's more things to cast besides bullets.

That’s a good point though. And as much as I love fishing I have slowed down serious fishing due to the expense of everything recently. My oldest daughter is getting a lathe for Christmas and that could easily turn some poppers and other simple hardbaits. A simple slit could allow for hook rigs and a little lead ballast to be glued in before paint and seal. I already have a steady supply of free kiln dried wood in 1.5x1x15 pieces and 2x2x20 pieces. Generally a mixture of pine, oak, ash, and poplar. The supply is endless and can be brought home by the cubic yard. A simple addition of a roll of thin braided line, hooks, and a crimp tool also gives me capability for heavy duty toothy fish drop shots. There’s some serious potential to make stuff that I would use and enjoy.

 

[EMC45]

Thank you for that, but at the end of the day I'm just a guy that wanted something he didn't have time for & could not afford. I found a way earning every $$$ and a lot of hard learned lesions.

I totally get it. I used to box and sell brass years back. Also sold reloading gear and gun parts. It all pays bills and buys extra "goodies" along the way.

 

[bullseye308]

Anyone remember how Jake got started? Now look at RMR and see where he is now. If you are willing to put in the effort and obviously can make the time, you can go far.

 

[35 Whelen]

Won't even get into the $$$ I've made making/selling swaging equipment. The only reason I bring it up is that it's easier to cast the lead cores that cut them from wire.

Molds are flat out $$$, good molds not only hold their value they increase in value faster that cheap molds. Years ago (80's) when I 1st started casting for myself I would buy any steel mold that was cheap. I would buy odd/special/custom aluminum molds or brass molds on occasion. I'd sit on them and would only sell them if I got top $$$ for the common molds to turn the $$$ into more molds. Ended up with 200+ molds this way & started selling them off +/- 10years ago. Not only did I have use of those molds for 25 years+ I was getting 700% to 1000%+ on what I paid when I sold them.

I took that $$$ and did reinvest in some molds, like Mihec molds. Like his molds and ended up with 15? 20?, don't know and won't bother counting. Took a year off work and went fishing/shooting/casting bullets/ bbq/ iced down beverages/ect.

I still have a bunch of custom molds & obsolete molds/ extremely hard to find mods, that I use. Along with ability to pretty much buy any mold that I want.

Anyone that says they can't afford to cast bullets or don't have the time should sit down and take a hard look at what they want out of life. When I started casting I was flat broke, had 2 baby's (new born & 2 year old). Worked 1 full time job in a factory taking all the overtime I could get. That check got handed over for bills, I worked construction & side jobs to pay for my vehicle, ins, gas, cloths, a 6 pack of beer once a week, ect.

You give a 16 year old a car and more often then not, it ain't gonna last. A 16 year old works for years saving their $$$ for a car, their going to take care of it.

Myself I found a way & in doing so it's not only paid for my hobby's. I'm getting $$$ on the back end to this day. Next couple of years I'll be selling everything off, molds, swaging equipment, reloading equipment, firearms, bullets, brass, primers, powder, firearms, the works. Been looking at houses/property on lakes, might as well let my hobby pay for that too.

Like panfish, down right tasty like these cold water crappie (there's a 10" perch hidden down at the bottom)
View attachment 961911

This. I cringe every time I read these threads; someone want's to get into casting so they opt for brand new, inexpensive equipment (Lee) which has little to no resale value and won't hold up to use like good iron molds will, instead of spending a few dollars more and getting the quality stuff.

Like @forrest r anytime I run across a good quality mold worth the money, I snatch it up and sell it later for a profit. I have even gotten in on Group Buys for custom molds, cast several years worth of bullets from the molds, clean the mold up then with good marketing and the help of eBay, sell the molds in some cases for more than I paid in the first place.

Buy the good stuff!

35W

 

[brewer12345]

This. I cringe every time I read these threads; someone want's to get into casting so they opt for brand new, inexpensive equipment (Lee) which has little to no resale value and won't hold up to use like good iron molds will, instead of spending a few dollars more and getting the quality stuff.

Like @forrest r anytime I run across a good quality mold worth the money, I snatch it up and sell it later for a profit. I have even gotten in on Group Buys for custom molds, cast several years worth of bullets from the molds, clean the mold up then with good marketing and the help of eBay, sell the molds in some cases for more than I paid in the first place.

Buy the good stuff!

35W

Nothing wrong with iron molds. That said, nothing wrong with aluminum. Some are better than others, but I can tell you that the Lee 6 cavity molds are well enough made to cast high quality bullets. I don't know how long it takes to wear one out because I am still trying. I am in the 6000 to 7000 bullet range on my most used Lee 6 banger and it still casts really nicely.

 

[35 Whelen]

Nothing wrong with iron molds. That said, nothing wrong with aluminum. Some are better than others, but I can tell you that the Lee 6 cavity molds are well enough made to cast high quality bullets. I don't know how long it takes to wear one out because I am still trying. I am in the 6000 to 7000 bullet range on my most used Lee 6 banger and it still casts really nicely.

You are 100% correct, there are some good aluminum molds. I have aluminum examples by Accurate, Arsenal, NOE and NEI, all of very high quality. But you can't build an aluminum 6-cavity mold, sell it for $50 then claim/expect the same quality as the aforementioned brands.

I own quite a few Lee molds and the last two I purchased were 6-cavity. One, a 429-240-2R is a joke, casting bullets with as much as 10 grs. difference in weight as well as variations in diameter from cavity to cavity. The most recent is a 358-150-1R, casts really good bullets, but due to the soft aluminum, is wearing already. A little pre-emptive work truing the top of the mold and the bottom of the sprue plate helps some, however.

Iron molds, even with little to no care, will literally last generations and retain their value well, and that is why they are my first choice.

35W

 

[ms6852]

When it comes to casting bullets, for me it is not about the economics and the same holds true for reloading a variety of calibers. It is about self sufficiency, hand loading calibers that are no longer being sold, it is about getting back to understanding how it was done in the times before cars and electricity, how our forefathers did it. It frees you to shoot whatever strikes your fancy.

 

[BWS]

I shoot cast in high velocity varmint rigs that are,unbelievably accurate. 2800fps+ 22-250's,6mmR,a trio of 243's,150g bullets out of one particular 30-06 CDLSF at JB velocity,and a few more.

The satisfaction derived can't be measured in words..... much less money.

Still using a Lyman 10# pot I bought USED,in 1980. The most perfectly round dropped bullet here,comes from a 22$ Lee 225-55RF. And yes,we have metrology equipment out the wazoo. Barely use ANY lube,no powder coating. The lube is beeswax and vaseline,and only gets put in the tiny space above GC.

Folks these days are looking for easy outs IMO. Put in the work,learn from it,and most importantly..... have fun. Pretty simple really.

Going now to enjoy assembly of 10,6mmR 85g SAECO,IMR4831 loads. These are scorching fast. So much,that 10 rounds is all the recoil I can take..... and this is from a R700V (pretty hefty rig).

 

[BWS]

Oh yeah,I started with a ladle and a used pump up Coleman stove.

If anything happens to the Lyman 10#er that can't be fixed...... going back to a ladle.

Heck,I didn't have a lead thermometer until a year n a half ago.... doh. And still using the first reloading press bought back in the 1970's. It's a turret press and is the go to for handgun ammo. Only progressive is an ancient 360 Pacific or Hornady? shotgun press. Just sayin,before the interweeb you "did" with what you had,and in an awful lot of cases.... handloaders are STILL using this same equipment.

It's like that old saying,"you can't have a big enough shop"...... the heck you can't. Someone has to pay taxes on it. Our shop is 75' long,and at my age you walk from one end to the other several times,AN HOUR.... and tell me about it. Same with handloading being a money pit..... yeah,if you believe everything on the interweeb. Hasn't been for me.

Sorry for the novel,good luck with your project.

 

[brewer12345]

You are 100% correct, there are some good aluminum molds. I have aluminum examples by Accurate, Arsenal, NOE and NEI, all of very high quality. But you can't build an aluminum 6-cavity mold, sell it for $50 then claim/expect the same quality as the aforementioned brands.

I own quite a few Lee molds and the last two I purchased were 6-cavity. One, a 429-240-2R is a joke, casting bullets with as much as 10 grs. difference in weight as well as variations in diameter from cavity to cavity. The most recent is a 358-150-1R, casts really good bullets, but due to the soft aluminum, is wearing already. A little pre-emptive work truing the top of the mold and the bottom of the sprue plate helps some, however.

Iron molds, even with little to no care, will literally last generations and retain their value well, and that is why they are my first choice.

35W

I have no complaints about my lee 6 bangers, so we will have to disagree on that one.

As for the rest, I like iron molds just fine, but they are heavy and expensive. If you are banging out quantity, a 2 cavity iron mold won't do it and a 4 banger is quite heavy. The other companies that make aluminum and brass molds are excellent, but pricey. Kind of a tall order for a beginner.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

I have no complaints about my lee 6 bangers, so we will have to disagree on that one.

As for the rest, I like iron molds just fine, but they are heavy and expensive. If you are banging out quantity, a 2 cavity iron mold won't do it and a 4 banger is quite heavy. The other companies that make aluminum and brass molds are excellent, but pricey. Kind of a tall order for a beginner.

I can't disagree with anything you say here.

I have some Mihec moulds in brass and aluminum. Very, very nice moulds, a bit steep for a new caster.
I have several NOE moulds in aluminum. Nice moulds, I use them alot, and recommend them. However, at ~$100 for a 4cav, again a bit steep for many.
I have several Lee moulds, some 2 cav, some 4. Some are custom cut. Good quality at a good price. Not as finely finished as the Mihec or NIE, but still good tools.

I have some iron moulds; 2 and 4 cav, from Ideal, Lyman, and RCBS. I really love the way they cast.

Then, I have an 8 cavity H&G iron mould. After about a half hour, it feels like I'm swinging a sledgehammer around.

Maybe I'm just getting old(er).

 

[brewer12345]

I have some iron moulds; 2 and 4 cav, from Ideal, Lyman, and RCBS. I really love the way they cast.

Then, I have an 8 cavity H&G iron mould. After about a half hour, it feels like I'm swinging a sledgehammer around.

Maybe I'm just getting old(er).

Hahaha, I picked up an extremely well used iron 4 banger .490 round ball mold. I really wasn't entirely sure how well it would cast given its exterior appearance, but it was $45 shipped so I figured I would give a try. Holy cow, this thing casts like a house on fire. Once I got it up to temp on a hot plate it just barfed perfect round balls like crazy. It cast so nicely that it was all I could do to keep the pot filled. By the end of the session I had over 700 keepers and an extremely sore wrist. Those suckers are heavy. On the bright side, I shot the heck out of 50 cal round ball last summer and I still probably have at least a year's worth of balls in the can.

 

[kcofohio]

I have started with 3 2 drop aluminum molds. Two of them have shot very well. I haven't shot the other yet.

That said, I plan on getting a Lyman and a Saeco mold before spring. Both bullets will take a gas check.

A side note, I got a set of Staedtler pencils and used them last night for the 1st time. Pretty cool how it works to check hardness. I found I have some 10 bhn, 11-12 bhn, and 14-15 bhn lead.

 

[armoredman]

I’m looking very seriously at getting into bullet casting. Running some numbers on purchased bullets vs cast bullets has left me a few holes to fill in to help finalize my decision. Randomly pulling numbers for various bullets (looking for nice even weights to make math simple) and comparing from places like Missouri, Bayou, and Badman it looks like roughly 2/3 of their price is in raw material (buying lots from eBay). Tools have some sort of amortization and I like to call it as quick as I can, so looking at a roughly $500 investment into tools and adding cost for material I figure I can hit a break-even point after casting roughly 20,000 bullets, but that number has zero labor added into it.

Time to spend reloading is scarce, so time for casting will also be scarce. Even if I put my normalized hourly rate at work in for labor that still leaves a big hole that I can’t figure out. Using the big molds, 6 or so cavities per mold I can crank out bullets, but I don’t know how fast that would be, and then I assume I can size them quickly but that also takes time. I may choose to powder coat so that also takes time. I’m thinking Lee bottom pour production pot as it seems likely to be both quick and easy to use. So for experienced casters, how long should I expect to spend at the bench to make 1000 bullets? That nice round number makes math easy.

And I understand that when I put labor into it then it likely won’t make sense any longer, but i am willing to put a premium on the ability to do it myself, and know that I can make what I want as opposed to waiting months for it like people are right now. Part of the desire to jump into casting is for oddball stuff that is unobtainable right now. The big casting companies are all focusing on high volume bullets and not giving production time to slow movers like 38s&w bullets or 32 handgun bullets. I want stuff when I want it, I don’t like being at the mercy of panic buyers.

I cast because I have fun doing it. Cost never came into it when I got started - it was me having what I wanted when I wanted and not being as beholden to the supply line, plus making something my way. If my time was so valuable, and I needed money that bad, I'D BE AT WORK. This is my HOBBY. It just so happens to be productive and feeds my other hobby of shooting.

 

[lightman]

It all starts with lead/alloys and finding them. Ya, the days of ww's are either gone or almost gone. But what ever happened to go big or go home??? Heck in the past (7 years ago) I've driven 200+ miles to buy a sailboat keel. Turns out the guy I bought it off of had 4 more and I bought them all. Last year I found a company that had 1900# of mono-type.

Lead is a commodity & that commodity is what makes casting bullets, reloading, firearms pay for itself.

The guy that had the keels was a hoarder that had a bunch of lead and was moving. He could carry the pile of ingots he had but didn't want to move the keels. Ended up buying them (5 keels/3000#) for $250. Didn't need the lead but it took 2 day to cut them up and turn them into ingots That I sold for $.50 a #, $1500. By the time I got done with the gas, propane and 3 days of my time I ended up with $1000 in my hands.

The 1900# of mono-type was a lot easier to deal with. It was +/- 60 miles away and they loaded it for me. Took a day to unload and put it in 25# boxes. Called every local gun club in my area and let them know had in original forum (not turned into ingots) mono-type for sale for $1.50 a #. Took less them a week to sell. Bought it for $1 a # and made $950 minus a tank of gas for the truck ($50).

This is how I paid for my 1st bottom pour pot, a lee #20 and my 1st mold, a 6-cavity H&G #50 wc mold. Back in the 80's when I wanted to start casting and didn't really have the time definitely didn't have the $$$. I knew I'd need lead to cast bullets with. I scrounged whatever I could find. Back then ww's were free and pure lead was highly sought after by the bp guys. I got enough pure lead together & sold it to pay for the pot & mold. Got more together and sold it to pay for a lyman 450 luber/sizer and dies.

I joined a gun club in 1990 and they had 2 pistol ranges and a rifle range with berms. I'm not allowed to dig up the berms looking for lead but after a hard rain it's nothing to take a rake and clean the berms of debris including buckets of recovered bullets. When smelting those bullets down into usable ingots a bi-product is copper jackets.
View attachment 961897

I also pick up brass from the ranges and either use it, sell it or scrap it. The local scrap yards buy the brass and copper jackets.
View attachment 961898

Some years are better than others
View attachment 961899

While I'm there I always look around and buy lead off of them if it looks worth while. Why buy lead when I'm getting it for free??? Simple enough, take the free $$$ from the copper jackets/brass and turn into more $$$ along with picking up materials to make specific alloys with.

Bought this with that $91.50 receipt pictured above for $.25 a # while I was there at the scrap yard.
View attachment 961900

The pure lead pipes I turned into ingots and sold for $1 a #, those 3 pigs (10# bars) were marked mono-type and a company name I sold for $2 a #. I sold the solder for $2 a #. Ended up with my $91.50 back + enough to cover the gas and the 1/2 bucket of lead was free.

Anyway been selling the copper jackets since 1990 and using the $$$ to buy molds, sizers, dies, powder, primers, etc. I also sell off the extra free lead I get every year. 150# (20 minutes work raking the berms & around the steel targets) turns into copper jackets to sell and 100# of ingots.
View attachment 961901

I typically get 300#+ of ingots a year doing this.

At the end of the day lead is $$$, couldn't even begin to tell you how much $$$ I've made over the years. But I do take that $$$ and put it back into what I do. Which is cast bullets, reload ammo, shoot firearms.

Free or cheap lead is still out there. Forrest's post proves that and I have many similar stories. Luck plays a part in it, being at the right place at the right time, but you also make some of your "luck". You have to always be looking and listening. You have to learn about lead and the things that were once made of lead. It helps to ask your friends, family and co-workers to be looking for you. I call it "networking".

Me and a buddy bought 5600# of sorted wheelweights about 2 years ago for 40 cents a pound. I sorted them again, before melting them and had maybe a quart cup of Zinc weights out of the whole bunch. The seller did a good job sorting them. We also bought a few thousand pounds of lead from him already cast into ingots for something like 70 cents a pound.

A few years before that I melted down 700-800# of cable sheathing. It was free for the asking and only cost me a case of Samuel Adams Octoberfest.

About that same time I scored about 1200# of wheelweights just for asking around.

Good Luck to anyone looking for lead.

 

[WeekendReloader]

I scrounged a bunch of free lead 15 years ago. It was a lot of running around. Now that I about shot through all that, for my time and gas money, I just said heck with it and bought lead for $1.50 lb delivered to my door. Pandemic pricing is higher now, but I'm sure it will go back down again by the time I need more.
Dealing with the dirty scrap was a messy stinky chore. It was new and interesting at the time, but now paying a little more per pound to have someone else mess with all that is ok with me.

 

[brewer12345]

I scrounged a bunch of free lead 15 years ago. It was a lot of running around. Now that I about shot through all that, for my time and gas money, I just said heck with it and bought lead for $1.50 lb delivered to my door. Pandemic pricing is higher now, but I'm sure it will go back down again by the time I need more.
Dealing with the dirty scrap was a messy stinky chore. It was new and interesting at the time, but now paying a little more per pound to have someone else mess with all that is ok with me.

When I started casting I decided that I didn't want to smelt scrap in my suburban backyard. Whenever I found a good deal I bought as heavy as I could, but was always ingots. Anything $1.30 or so or less delivered I would snarf up. Works for me. I fell off the wagon and have done a few small pewter smelts, but that is not nearly as messy and of course it is a lot smaller scale.

I ordered a cap and ball revolver so I am finally having to order foundry pure stuff to cast for it. In those low volumes i can live with $3 a pound.

 

[CraigC]

Free or cheap lead is still out there.

I looked for "free" lead about 10yrs ago. Called every tire shop in the county. No luck. If I have to look harder than that, it ain't "free". To me, this is like looking at the trees on my property and thinking, "free house".

 

[armoredman]

I have a big white pastic bucket sitting outside at my best friend's house full of berm mined lead, a gift from a buddy. I don't have any kind of raw lead melting setup, so instead I buy mine from a Doe Run Secondary Fabricator that is right around the corner from me, Seafab Metals Company. They are some of the NICEST people I have ever dealt with and always come through with an excellent product ready for the pot. It costs a few bucks more, but I am good with it while I can pay it. I do need to see what pure lead costs for MY black powder revolver.