Educate me on Recoil Springs

[mokin]

I recently put an aftermarket recoil spring/guide rod in my Glock 29. Just part of routine maintenance. Recoil springs are supposed to be replaced every couple thousand rounds. This is the third spring/guide rod assembly I've installed. Previously I had used an OEM spring. This time original parts were unobtainium so I changed things a little. With the stiffer spring and tungsten guide rod, the pistol seems to handle much better.

So to get to the question, it wasn't something I planned on. It just worked out very well for me.

 

[gobsauce]

Sure... but how many manufacturers put the info in the manual? It seems rare at best.

None of the guns I have included the info

My guy, my main pistol is an old Type 54 Tokarev. Anyone got the CGA customer support number?

 

[tark]

I can speak with a little authority only about 1911s but the problems associated with too heavy or too light springs are usually common to most any auto pistol. Too light and the gun beats itself to death over time. One symptom of a worn out recoil spring is the gun failing to feed the first round or two out of a full magazine. Too heavy a spring and the gun will usually short stroke. In a 1911 too heavy a spring will slam the slide into battery with too much force, battering and eventually cracking the lugs on the barrel. I lost count of the number of guns RMAs returned to the shop with cracked lugs. The excuse was always the same: "I shoot hot loads so I put in a 22# spring. It was cycling OK . I thought I was doing the gun a favor. " Almost always reloads, as one would expect.

There are always exceptions to every rule. A 1911 set up for wadcutters left the shop with 14# springs, if I remember correctly. The lighter load meant the slide wasn't coming back with as much force so it wasn't going to beat anything too hard. Les sent instructions to shoot a box or two of ball ammo through the gun before switching to wadcutters.

Stick with factory recommended weight springs and you can't go wrong.

 

[danez71]

3 & 4. The first that comes to mind are the S&W M&P series. Their LE Armor course recommendation is every 5k rounds, if you call CS, they'll tell you 10-20k
1. Ed Brown's manual for the full size 1911 is every 3k rounds
2. Browning Hi-Power also has a 3k round recommendation (Stephen Camp used to recommend every 1500 rounds)

I don't change recoil springs on .22lr pistols

Thank you. That's about what I have ascertained over the years.

But are any of those recommendations on any of their manufacturers Web sites?

I know none of thier manuals I received with all of those guns give any recommended change interval.

It's not like you have to call Ford to ask when to change oil, tires etc or take a certified Ford maintenance class to get the info. Or have to call Kenmore to ask when to clean the lint filter in your dryer or ask some 3rd party for thier recommendation.


All I'm saying is that the info should be included with the cleaning & maintenance section of the manuals just like many other mechanical things do.

 

[9mmepiphany]

All I'm saying is that the info should be included with the cleaning & maintenance section of the manuals just like many other mechanical things do.

When you think of the percentage of owners who never even open the manual (because they know everything), it would be pretty pointless. The only reason they include what information they do is to avoid liability concerns. Most owners are likely never to need to change a recoil spring either.

Folks who want the information you're asking to be included actually want to know more about their guns. They would be inclined to do the research needed to find that information.

Just a quick glance at the responses already posted in this thread should hint at how many folks wouldn't follow the recommended maintenance intervals anyway

 

[12Bravo20]

Most manufacturers recommend changing the recoil spring every 3 to 5 thousand rounds. This does vary by manufacturer along by caliber and size of pistol too.

And yes one should change out the recoil spring on a regular basis based on round count. Now some people will never shoot 3 to 5 thousand rounds through their pistols and really won't have to worry about the recoil spring. Before 2020, I would change the recoil spring out once a year or every other year depending on the pistol and how much I shot it.

And another reason that I did not see mentioned yet for changing the recoil spring weight is when you add a compensator to the end of the barrel. A comp will change things and you might have to go with a different weight spring to keep the pistol functioning reliably.

Glocks and Polymer 80 builds are one example. I see guys installing comps onto their threaded barrels and then have cycling issues with the stock recoil spring. As stated by others, there are many reasons for changing the recoil spring weight. And again they should also be changed out periodically.

 

[Alllen Bundy]

.......With the stiffer spring and tungsten guide rod, the pistol seems to handle much better.

FYI, In pounds per cubic foot"
Steel: 490
Stainless Steel: 494
Lead: 710
Tungsten: 1,205

You can see that the mass of Tungsten is almost 2.5 times more than steel, and far greater than a plastic guide rod. I would think that this would result in a noticeable reduction in muzzle flip.

 

[danez71]

When you think of the percentage of owners who never even open the manual (because they know everything), it would be pretty pointless. The only reason they include what information they do is to avoid liability concerns. Most owners are likely never to need to change a recoil spring either.

Folks who want the information you're asking to be included actually want to know more about their guns. They would be inclined to do the research needed to find that information.

Just a quick glance at the responses already posted in this thread should hint at how many folks wouldn't follow the recommended maintenance intervals anyway

Same exact could be said with the owners manual in your car but yet they still include the info.

How many change the oil in the differential, ever? How many even know you should?

But yet they still put that in manual for those that do read and care and you can find it on thier websites.

But that info is neither in the manual nor on the website for guns.

What's pointless is not including it.

 

[JDR]

For my full length 45ACP 1911’s a 17lb Wilson Combat Flatwire Recoil Spring, with the full length 1/4” guide rod & plug

Fot my full length 9mm 1911 a 15lb WC FWRS with the guide rod & plug.

I would say that the .45 ACP FWRS upgrade is nice to have, but the 9mm upgrade was needed since I wanted to be able to shoot 115gr ammo with the gun, particularly in the midst of this current ammo shortage.

The rest of the non-1911’s, in particular the Glocks, all use the stock recoil springs and assemblies.

Many rounds of direct experience with all setups.

AFAIC, all of the internet tribal knowledge on gun mods in general, and alternate spring weights in particular, isn’t worth the time to read them, unless you try them out first, one mod at a time, on your own guns, with all of the ammo combinations you intend to use.

 

[Jim Watson]

You can see that the mass of Tungsten is almost 2.5 times more than steel, and far greater than a plastic guide rod. I would think that this would result in a noticeable reduction in muzzle flip.

It is one of those Princess and the Pea things. I have a couple of tungsten guide rods and do not feel a lot of difference in "flip" although it does give a nice balance to my aluminum framed MixMaster.

Somebody once calculated the spring load of an original USGI 1911; the mil-spec is in wire diameter, coil diameter, number of coils, and free length, not "pounds." It comes out to about 13.75 lbs. That, in combination with a small radius firing pin stop against the mainspring, was good enough for 6000 rounds in 1911. I have read that what you get in a modern Colt is 15 lbs or a bit less.

Remember, Wolff and ISMI are in the business of selling springs. They want you to throw your old ones away.

A complicating factor is the trend to small guns without a lot of spring space.
The early "compact" 1911 mutants with barrels of 4" or less were particular offenders, with a plain spring life of less than 1000 shots before operation got weak. A flat wire spring is a big help, I have a couple of guns with Glock springs on shop made guide rods, done before the commercial versions came out.
Many companies went to the telescopic concentric spring system designed by Seecamp. What is the replacement interval for those? A lot of them are not demountable and individual springs not available, increasing the replacement cost.

 

[lsudave]

My guy, my main pistol is an old Type 54 Tokarev. Anyone got the CGA customer support number?

I've still got the Navy Arms box mine came in, I might look to see if there's anything posted about springs

Fwiw, I have stayed stock recoil spring, whether it's shooting 7.62 Tok or 9mm Luger. Gun seems to be sprung correctly for both.

Do you have the new, unbastardized import, or the one with the crappy frame safety? That safety decomposing has been the only issue I've ever had with that gun. The little screws are crap metal, and eventually shear. That leads to metal grit getting caught up in the rails.