Effective buckshot range

[Fred Fuller]

There used to be a handful of folks out there in shotgun land who were interested in experimenting with the maximum range they could get buckshot to pattern effectively. What they were doing was trying to push the "A Zone" as far out as they could, to avoid having to go to slugs to achieve needed precision with shotguns at only 15 yards or so, as was then the case. Most experimenters found that buckshot penetration fell off a good distance before patterning did.

I was using target frames made from pressure treated 2x4s at that time (late 1990s). At 100 yards, 000 buckshot pellets from 3" Magnum Federal Premium loads (which would generally put 40-50% of their pellets into an E type (GI) silhouette at that range) would fully penetrate the 2X4s. This was using a Patternmaster choke tube in an 18" 870 barrel, which had had the forcing cone lengthened as well. The internal barrel work was done at Patternmaster, and a GR sight installation was done at Scattergun Technology well before Wilson bought them out. Yes, I am telling my age again.

If I were planning to use buckshot at extended ranges, I would use the best patterning 000 loads I could find. Buckshot = round ball as far as sectional density is concerned, and round balls shed velocity faster than any other projectile shape. While single buckshot pellets can be lethal at extended ranges, counting on the effectiveness of buckshot 'way out there' is wishful thinking IMHO.

I would push buckshot use to 40 yards with the good 00 loads I use now, in a pinch, if I had to, as long as I had no concerns about where stray pellets went or what collateral damage might be caused by pellets that landed off the intended target. As a rule I do not anticipate using 00 buckshot past 25 yards at this point. And the issue is penetration, NOT patterns- I get 4" patterns at 25 yards with Federal LE 127-00, and there is enough of it on hand not to have to buy buckshot for a while yet.

JMHO, YMMV, etc.

lpl

 

[snooperman]

OO Buckshot for home defense

My older brother is retired with 30 years with the highway patrol and 7 years with the FBI. He told me a few years ago not to use OO buckshot for home defense, even though I live on a farm, because the penetration of the shot would go through the walls of the house and could kill someone outside . He said the FBI uses number 4 buck, 20,6grains per pellet and found it to be very effective without the over-penetration of the OO buckshot. I think that Redneck 2 is concerned and rightly so about this.I think I am now going to use #4 buck for home defense in my 12 gauge coach gun and my 20 guage pump short youth gun I use the standard # 3 buckshot load 23.3 g per pellet. For hunting deer and wild boar on my farm and near-by farm land I use a rifle, for the most part, but also use my Ithaca 12 guage modified choke gun with OO buckshot in the brush in the back of my farm with great effect between 30 to 40 yards on deer, and have had good success for more than 40 years here. That said, I have passed up many shots at deer in brush at greater distances because of the concern of not wanting to wound it.

 

[gunnie]

i can't recall the mfgr of the 00 buckshot used, as it has been some 20 years. i also do not feel the target medium is an accurate material for relating to shooting living things.

but for just testing, the 18" cyl bore pump i had at that time would not consistently put 2 3/4" double ought through a plain vanilla pine 2x4 @ 15yds--turned the thin way.

i have no idea about what kind of superior loads might be available for this chambering at present. still, this caused much rethinking of the distances i felt like could count on a shotgun loaded with "00" for SD on my part.

i see where Lee Lapin has had much better luck with 000 from a three inch chamber, but this is about 1/4" more than pertains to me. does anyone have 2 3/4" 000 experience on 2x4 wood to compare this too? just curious if the additional mass would make a considerable difference.

gunnie

 

[redneck2]

I have every confidence both these statements are true. Just wondering what the difference is. I know it is comparing 00 vs 000, but the distance should well make up for the size difference.

but for just testing, the 18" cyl bore pump i had at that time would not consistently put 2 3/4" double ought through a plain vanilla pine 2x4 @ 15yds--turned the thin way

At 100 yards, 000 buckshot pellets from 3" Magnum Federal Premium loads (which would generally put 40-50% of their pellets into an E type (GI) silhouette at that range) would fully penetrate the 2X4s.

 

[Grunt]

We just taught a shotgun class here last week. Our lesson plan states that "maximum effective range is that range that the average shooter can place 50% of his shots on target" and again, the lesson plan for the shotgun states that the 00 Buck load we use has a max effective range of 68 meters. Now how accurate that is I can't say but that's what the USAF teaches.

 

[MCgunner]

I can hunt hogs on a local WMA in the spring, only got out one day last season as I got busy. Hope to do a lot better this year. It's buckshot only, so I bought some 00 in 10 gauge. I patterned 'em and at 50 yards, I'd get a couple on a hogs head sized area every shot. Pattern is important if you're shooting out there a ways. I was shooting through a modified choke tube from a 24" barreled H&R 10 gauge. I KNOW buckshot ain't gonna penetrate good enough on a hog past 25 yards, but I have no choice out there, but to use it by regulation, so I figure putting pellets in the brain is preferable. The 10 patterns tight even though there's only 18 in the pattern. If I cripple one, well, it's only a hog, I guess. They're kinda like big rats down here. I do wish they'd let you at least use a slug or a BP rifle, though. I'd LOVE it if I could use my Hawken 50 down there with a 385 grain Hornady great plains minie.

 

[Badger Arms]

What is the effective range of OO buckshot in terms of penetration? I'm NOT concerned about pattern density, just penetration value. Guess something like performance in ballistic gel would be a help.

So, exactly what is lame or misleading about this question?

Effectiveness of Buckshot is intrinsically tied to pattern density and pellet hit probability and has little to do with individual pellet penetration. Look at the ballistics of a .32 caliber cap and ball musket... smooth bore... if you want to know the effectiveness of individual buckshot pellets. Last I checked, it was really hard to hit an animal with one pellet out of a load of buckshot... at least repeatably.

 

[redneck2]

Actually, it's got everything to do with individual pellet penetration. Shoot someone at 20 yards with 8's. You've got a great pattern but little penetration.

I can change the pattern. Just swap chokes. I can't change physics of the load.

the lesson plan for the shotgun states that the 00 Buck load we use has a max effective range of 68 meters. Now how accurate that is I can't say but that's what the USAF teaches.

I would hope that the military has done enough testing to figure it out. From what actual users have posted here, that looks viable.

 

[nathan]

If a bad guy has a gun and takes aim at you even at 25 - 30 yds, I d shoot him as quciky as i can and move for cover. If he gets hit and died, the better.

 

[Badger Arms]

Actually, it's got everything to do with individual pellet penetration. Shoot someone at 20 yards with 8's. You've got a great pattern but little penetration.

No, it has LITTLE to do with individual pellet performance. Since you do not aim the pellets, you cannot tell where they are going to go. You have to delve into the world of probability to figure if you'll get enough hits. You chose the shot size based on the type of game you are hunting, and you select the pattern based on the range at which you intend to shoot. Buckshot does not pattern like birdshot.

You keep trying to make this science, but it's probability. You look for multiple pellet hits and you run into percentages and the probability that your load of buckshot will effectively take the game. A 00 Buck pellet is lethal at FAR BEYOND any range at which a buckshot load is effective... THEREFORE PELLET EFFECTIVENESS HAS LITTLE TO DO WITH THIS. Arguing the point, insulting those you argue with, then editing your insults out does not change the basics of this.

 

[RMc]

Buckshot penetration

Buckshot penetration in wet newspaper @ 5 yards.
---------------------------------------------------------
#4 Buckshot (.24 / 21 grains): 3.5 inches

#1 Buckshot (.30 / 40 grains): 5 inches

#00 Buckshot (.33 / 54 grains): 7 inches

Dixie Tri-Ball (.60 / 315 grains): 26 inches

 

[lobo9er]

redneck
really you havent seen this stuff on video on the internet? google it. look it up on youtube. box'o'truth guy did it.

if its a HD question "00" will work just fine. if its a hunting question use slugs past 30 yards to kill big game.

My cousin is a Policeman with Rapid City Dept. He has killed 4 mule deer in past 7 years with his issue 12 gauge and 00 buck. In each case, the animal was hurt and limping or struggling from a recent auto crash.

this doesn't help at all. shooting an animal point blank while its wounded doesn't help answer the question.

 

[HB]

this doesn't help at all. shooting an animal point blank while its wounded doesn't help answer the question.

Umm, well yes it does. Penetration in live tissue is penetration in live tissue regardless of the health of the animal. And he said it was a 50 yard shot on one of the deer. I can't see how wounded makes a difference as far as penetration goes. If it breaks ribs and perforates organs, it doesn't matter.

 

[DRYHUMOR]

I've shot deer from 10 feet to 50-60 yds with buckshot, but, you've got to have some very rapid follow up shots. I will generally shoot as many as 3-4 times, moving closer as I shoot, until I'm reasonably certain the deer won't get back up. I play for keeps.

At the longer ranges I've had decent penetration, couple of inches in just muscle. Deeper through the cavity. At closer ranges up to 20 yds, I've broken shoulders, ribs, necks. 12 ga 2 3/4" and 3" magnum.

 

[inSight-NEO]

My older brother is retired with 30 years with the highway patrol and 7 years with the FBI. He told me a few years ago not to use OO buckshot for home defense, even though I live on a farm, because the penetration of the shot would go through the walls of the house and could kill someone outside . He said the FBI uses number 4 buck, 20,6grains per pellet and found it to be very effective without the over-penetration of the OO buckshot. I think that Redneck 2 is concerned and rightly so about this.I think I am now going to use #4 buck for home defense in my 12 gauge coach gun and my 20 guage pump short youth gun I use the standard # 3 buckshot load 23.3 g per pellet.

Ive always been curious about this argument when one is using, say Low Recoil 00 Buck, for HD vs. the often chosen #4 or even #1. Now, I use Federal loads almost exclusively, so I cant say much about other brands. Based on the info I have gathered, the numbers are as follows (comparing my preferred HD load to others within the same Federal brand):

#4 Buckshot (41 pellets) @ 1100 muzzle velocity (the lowest)
#4 Buckshot (27 pellets) @ 1325 muzzle velocity (the highest)
00 Buckshot (9 pellets) @ 1140 muzzle velocity (my preferred HD load)

Given the relatively low velocity of the Low Recoil load, can this honestly be seen a far to penetrative as compared to the other two #4 loads? Particularly when compared to the 1325 MV of the 27 pellet #4 Federal load?

Now sure, the 9 pellet Low Recoil 00 Buck will probably have more mass on its side, but still...

It seems like not many people consider or even mention the Low Recoil 00 Buck when arguing against or for such a load. To me at least, this load bridges a gap and allows for max stopping power and control while minimizing penetration (within the 00 Buck family).

And lets face it, I (along with others) am far less likely to miss with the shotgun (within typical HD ranges) as compared to my .45 ACP...which Im sure is quite penetrative itself, even when using standard pressure JHP. After all, a good round of buckshot probably wont spread all that much within 10 to 30 feet or so.

Besides, my SG is not a "seek and destroy" weapon...it is a "standby," "standoff" or "barricade" weapon.

Frankly, I get somewhat tired of this debate at times. I say use what you have...but with caution. After all, no bullet/round (and I mean NONE), has a mind of its own. Its up to training and a cool mind as to whether or not a shot hits its mark. All else is speculation and frivolous argument.

Stay safe and go with what you know...

 

[Youngster]

At the longer ranges I've had decent penetration, couple of inches in just muscle. Deeper through the cavity. At closer ranges up to 20 yds, I've broken shoulders, ribs, necks. 12 ga 2 3/4" and 3" magnum.

And that's why I prefer full power buck over the reduced stuff for defence, no need to handicap yourself with 25 yard equivalent velocity, and wounding effects, right out of the muzzle.