What is the advantage of buckshot over slugs at HD ranges

[Jason_W]

It seems that at 21 feet or less, the pattern of buckshot doesn't open up all that much. If you can hit it with buckshot, then you can probably hit it with a slug.

I suppose that the penetration of exterior walls could be a concern in places where houses are tightly packed.

Thoughts?

 

[rcmodel]

That is my thought.

A miss with 00 buckshot is much less likely to go through my neighbors bedroom wall and blow him a new one 100 yards down the street.

Even a COM hit with buck is less likely to have enough remaining energy to make it out of the house.

I once saw a shooting while I was in the Army involving a prisoner trying to climb over the stockade wire.

A guard shot him COM in the back at about 15 yards with a riot gun.
The autopsy found all nine 00 buck inside the guys undershirt on the off side.
Probably wouldn't have found a slug, as it would still be going.

rc

 

[Harley Quinn]

At home if I was using a shotgun around the house it would be loaded with something in the #4 or BB range of buck... Close up with a 18" barrel is ugly... Eats a hole through if close enough the size if a peach

Size Type Weight Diameter
#TriBall(12 Ga.) Buck 20.41 g (315 gr.) 15.24 mm (0.60")
#0000 Buck 5.51 g (85 gr.) 9.40 mm (0.380")
#000 Buck 4.54 g (70 gr.) 9.14 mm (0.360")
#00 Buck 3.49 g (53.8 gr.) 8.38 mm (0.330")
#0 Buck 3.18 g (49 gr.) 8.13 mm (0.320")
#1 Buck 2.62 g (40.5 gr.) 7.62 mm (0.300")
#2 Buck 1.91 g (29.4 gr.) 6.86 mm (0.270")
#3 Buck 1.52 g (23.4 gr.) 6.35 mm (0.250")
#4 Buck 1.34 g (20.7 gr.) 6.09 mm (0.240")
#FF Buck 1.18 g (18.2 gr.) 5.84 mm (0.230")
#F (TTT) Buck 1.05 g (16.2 gr.) 5.59 mm (0.220")
#TT Buck 0.98 g (15.1 gr.) 5.33 mm (0.210")
#T Buck 0.89 g (13.7 gr.) 5.08 mm (0.200")
#BBB 0.66 g (10.2 gr.) 4.82 mm (0.190")
#BB 0.57 g (8.8 gr.) 4.57 mm (0.180")
#B 0.48 g (7.4 gr.) 4.32 mm (0.170")

 

[W.E.G.]

So long as you know the fight won't go further than the interior spaces of your home, even a .410 with birdshot is going to be an effective weapon.

Beyond 10 yards, birdshot is a poor choice for gunfighting.

 

[Dobe]

I question birdshot (7 1/2 and 8s) at 10 yards, if the assailant is wearing a heavy coat or clothing. I would want a minimum of #4 buckshot.

 

[Harley Quinn]

Aiming for the upper body, neck and face would be the answer for the 410 mention, same with birdshot/snakeshot out of a revolver, first round to get their attention and giving up... The eyes would be history

Regards

 

[Bud Tugly]

It's possible (though unlikely) that a COM hit with a slug could pass right through a person yet avoid hitting anything vital. The wound would be horrendous and probably ultimately lethal but just might avoid hitting anything that would instantly stop the attacker. Buckshot will spread enough that a COM hit is almost guaranteed to destroy something important enough to guarantee a stop.

IMO that's the main advantage.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

Hmmm, thats a good point Bud, but still, ya gotta think of the massive would cavity that a slug would do.

 

[Captcurt]

A shotgun with any size of shot is going to make a wound at 20 ft. that will give even the best surgeon a lesson in futility. The word "hamburger" comes to mind.

 

[Bud Tugly]

I'm no expert, but I'm guessing there might be a few spots on the human torso where you could poke a 3/4" hole straight through and not hit anything that would be instantly incapacitating. Not that you'd likely live long afterward, mind you, but you might be able to keep going for a minute or two.

OTOH, stuff like a severed spinal chord will stop you right on the spot, and a hit on it is more likely with multiple large pellets that penetrate that far.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Jason,

With the preferred buckshot loads here at Casa Lapin (Federal LE127-00), patterns don't open up much out to 25 YARDS, much less 21 feet. But that's the way I like it.

Clint Smith says the advantage of shotguns as defensive weapons is that they will remove meat and bone. With good tight buckshot patterns, they definitely will do that. Multiple projectiles generating multiple wound tracks are more likely to do significant damage than single projectiles- though of course there are no guarantees where this stuff is concerned.

Slugs are nothing to sneeze at either... but with either tight buckshot patterns or slugs, hitting what you shoot at is a primary requirement. If the shooter needs a wider pattern to make up for lack of ability to hit with the shotgun, then the problem of stray buckshot pellets that miss the intended target becomes an issue. Naturally, if the shooter misses with a complete tight pattern, then that's also a problem- just as it would be with a slug. Best bet is to train and practice till you can hit what you shoot at, under pressure...

lpl

 

[Girodin]

Beyond 10 yards, birdshot is a poor choice for gunfighting.

I've shot birds at 10 yards that I had to go ring their necks. Bird shot is a poor choice for gunfighting period.

 

[Captcurt]

I've shot birds at 10 yards that I had to go ring their necks. Bird shot is a poor choice for gunfighting period.

I have also seen quail centered in the pattern of a 410 at 20 feet. All that was left was a leg, skin and head.

 

[jmr40]

If the conditions are ideal birdshot may work. Conditions are rarely ideal. I'd use birdshot if it was all I had, but to rely on it as your first choice is foolish. There is absolutely no downside to just using buckshot in the first place.

The primary advantage of a shotgun is to increase the probability of a hit. Even at close range a 4-5" pattern is bigger than the .73 pattern offered by a slug.

 

[Girodin]

I have also seen quail centered in the pattern of a 410 at 20 feet.

Last I checked 20' wasn't 10 yards. The birds in question were larger than quail. Different guns pattern differently.

 

[rbernie]

It seems that at 21 feet or less, the pattern of buckshot doesn't open up all that much

My HD 870 will take Fiocci or Rio low-recoil buck and pattern it into 6"-8" or so at 7 yards. Federal 132 LE 00 will not open up much past 4" at that distance, but will provide a hail of lead within that 4" circle. Any of those loads, having eight or nine projectiles per shell, will increase your chances of hitting something important relative to a single projectile.

Slugs are great, but they clearly favor penetration over any other factor. If you need penetration, then use slugs. Barring that - as Lee points out, multiple projectiles are mo' better.

 

[Dobe]

Here's a thread from Shotgunworld.com. I hope this sheds some light on the birdshot vs buckshot.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=109958

 

[Waywatcher]

Looking at the pictrues Dobe linked, I think the lines get blurred a bit.

Sure, small birdshot doesn't look too impressive, but niether does OO.

The middle ground like BB to #4 buck look pretty tore up.

00 buck went nearly as far as the reduced recoil slug!

 

[Dobe]

To me, birdshot (8s to 6s and even 4s) loose out even more, if an assailant is wearing heavy clothing (thick leather or heavy wool coat). You have to consider also that the photos of the gelatin blocks have no other resistance, i.e. clothing or even a sternum bone.

 

[figment]

Do a search on bird shot. It's not very lethal.