Ejection puzzle--1911 Officers

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ExMachina

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My Compact Kimber is ejecting its spent cases in an inconsistent but predictable manner.

With a full 7 round mag (so, 6 rounds under the first ejected case), the first 3 cases eject toward 1 or 2 o'clock, with the remainder of the ejections creeping back to about 3'oclock for the last shot or two. Also, the last several cases *sometimes* eject with quite a high trajectory, arcing enough to hit the ceiling of the range booth (about 3’ above gun level). Normally (with my limited knowledge) I'd suspect a loose ejector or an out-of tension ejector, but the consistency of this ejection pattern is uncanny!

I am not experiencing any feeding, extraction, or ejection failures. Also, I cannot duplicate this ejection pattern using aluminum, dummy rounds--these all eject consistently to about 3 o'clock.

Any ideas as to what might be causing this? Thanks.
 
Check ammo ogive?--magazine?

The case being extracted may be hitting the top round in the magazine.

Try several magazines, several type of bullets. Clean chamber. Do one thing at a time, and check results.
 
Would a too weak/too strong recoil spring produce the effects I am experiencing?

Gun has a new-ish recoil spring (Wolff, 22# w/ around 400 rounds to its credit)
 
Extractor hook

The extractor hook is 0.039" deep which is just a tad deeper than 1911Tuner recommends. Could this be at fault? Any trick to shaving off a couple of thous??
 
Last edited:
Long Hook

Howdy exMachina,

You said/asked:

The extractor hook is 0.039" deep which is just a tad deeper than 1911Tuner recommends. Could this be at fault? Any trick to shaving off a couple of thous??
____________________

Yep...That's a bit too long, especially when used with the extended ejectors on Officer's Models and Commanders. When the case tries to twist off the hook, the long ejector sometimes gets it into a bind when the backside of the hook digs into the front side of the rim. The case hangs in the port a little too long, and the slide smacks it before it can get out.

To reduce the length, drag it sideways across a medium India stone or a smooth mill file, top to bottom. For first-timers, I advise the stone, since the file will cut fast. Be careful to keep it level and parallel to the stone when cutting. Check it often. Stop at
.035 inch and fire the gun. If it seems to need more, take a thousandth at a time
and don't go any shorter than .032 inch.

If the reduction forms a sharp corner on the bottom of the hook...radius it by stoning the corner with a "swiping" motion. Don't get too carried away. LIGHTLY
break the corner at the top of the hook. All you want to do is break the sharp edge or burr that you may have kicked up.

Then, go to the backside at the very end of the extractor...Put a case in the hook
in the extracting position, and roll the case off the hook. Look at the point of contact as it rolls free. Right at the end at a slight angle. Lightly file or stone
it at that point to provide a smoother rollout when it hits the forward part of the extractor groove. It won't take much, so don't get carried away. Remember that the case twists up AND sideways...so don't forget to lightly break the corners on the backside.

Luck!

Tuner
 
To reduce the length, drag it sideways across a medium India stone or a smooth mill file, top to bottom. For first-timers, I advise the stone, since the file will cut fast. Be careful to keep it level and parallel to the stone when cutting. Check it often.
Click to expand...

Will do.

My question now is, am I trying to maintain the sharp edge of the hook? In the picture below, should I shave along A or B?


ExtractorhookShave.jpg
 
ABCDEFG...

Howdy exMachina,

I had to study that a minute...It almost looked like an optical illusion. The answer is "B"...but the motion to keep the inside of the hook straight is toward you as you look at the drawing. Imagine that the stone is vertical in your drawing, and flat against the sharp point of the hook. Keep the stem parallel to the stone's surface and draw the extractor sideways on the stone. The result will shape the hook like it would be if line "B" described the tip, and the right triangle that forms the present tip were erased.

Check your PMs
 
Infernal External

Dang! Kruzr just nailed somethin'! I forgot about them dang external extractors on the Kimbers. The top of the thread said "Officer's" and I thought we was talkin' Colt. The depth of the hook could still stand to be a little shorter. Go with .036 and lightly radius the bottom corner.
 
I will let Tuner answer that one since I do not do these type of things to extractors. Erratic ejection in short slide guns is corrected by tuning the ejector. All the extractor does is pull the empty case back against the tip of the ejector, and if it does that, end of that story. The ejector shape , the ammo quality, and the magazines, determine the ejection pattern on mine. I use Caspian Arms extractors and ejectors and have used them since they offered them for sale and I have never had an extractor problem in any gun I have ever built. We use these in the class guns and if they are set up right, they seem to work just fine. Most people just live with what they have because it can be very hard to make it run like a five inch 1911. It is a poor design and a bad use of JMB's original intention. I realize that they are very popular and that most people love these little 1911's but I have never figured out why. My Commander is still my favorite carry gun. I don't have leather seats in Number 17.
 
Oh Dear. an External Extractor. Disregard my previous post because I forget how the factories are desperate to turn old stuff into new stuff. Good luck.
 
Extractors Spoken Here

Dave said:

I will let Tuner answer that one since I do not do these type of things to extractors.
_____________________

Maybe ya oughta give it a try, Cap'n. Too-long hooks and straight edges on the back will hang one up in a new Yoor second. :cool:
 
I never buy those kind of parts, Tuner, so all I have to do is tweak them a little and they work just peachy keen. Perhaps it is because I work on different stuff than the average guy. There is the Right Way, The Wrong Way, The Tuner Way, and My Way. Who cares as long as they work 100%?
 
Internal extractor (this is a ca. 1998 Kimber). I had also forgotten about the external extractors!.

Tuner, sorry about not labeling the drawing better, but thanks for taking the time to decypher it and steer me in the right direction. I don't know if the hook depth is to blame, but I'll at least bring it down a hair and see if I notice a difference.

A too deep extractor hook sounds plausable, if for no other reason than nearly every other dimensiion on this particular extractor needed adjusting.

Erratic ejection in short slide guns is corrected by tuning the ejector. All the extractor does is pull the empty case back against the tip of the ejector, and if it does that, end of that story.
Click to expand...

See, that's what's confusing me, the ejection is not "erratic." If anything, the ejection is "systematic" as it follows a predictable pattern from first round to last. As it stands the ejector is a new King's ejector, tight as Scrooge and throwing at least the last three caseings of each magazine, right where I want 'em.
 
Ejection

Okay, lemme see here...

Ejection angles and direction can often be influenced by the next round in the magazine if the slide lets it pop up before the case hits the ejector. More noticeable when standard ejectors are used than with extended type.

The extractor geometry can also have an effect on ejection patterns. I can put the brass in three different places on the ground by changing the extractor. Sorry Dave...You just ain't fully explored the mysteries of the extractor yet. :cool:

When brass ejects forward...it's usually because the hook hangs on too long and the slide smacks it as it returns to battery. backward is usually because the brass
gets out too early and at the wrong angle...bounces off the bottom of the port...bounces up into the path of the recoiling slide...and gets knocked backward.

Erratic ejection is usually due to insufficient extractor tension...and the effect of the up-coming round in the magazine. The reason that it changes is probably
due to the varying magazine timing as the rounds are used...and the last round
is usually the craziest.

Just FWIW...If the cases are getting well clear of the port and aren't dingin' ya in the face...it's not really an issue.

Shorten the hook just a little...about .003 inch...and test fire it to see where they go. That small amount can make a big difference.
 
Thanks to all!

Tuner,

Thak you very much for the advice. I'll see what happens with a slightly shorter hook.

You're right, I really should be careful for what I wish for! 100% reliabilty is hard to beat! :)

...I just want all that brass that ends up downrange! ;)
 
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