Electric rubber bullets

Status
Not open for further replies.

Fred Fuller

Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 26, 2004
Messages
21,215
Location
AL, NC
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=31&art_id=iol109152685653P100

Zap! Here's a stunning solution to crime

August 03 2004 at 11:54AM

By Alan Duggan


Blam! A single shot rings out and the knife-wielding attacker stops in his tracks, clutching at his chest. Seconds later, he’s sprawled on the ground, body twitching uncontrollably.

A policeman strolls over and handcuffs him. “He’ll live,†he announces. In fact, the criminal isn’t hurt at all.

He’s just been zapped by a ShockRound, the latest addition to a growing armoury of “non-lethal†weapons being developed for the law enforcement industry, the military, and border control and anti-terrorism initiatives.
ShockRounds rubber bullets can incapacitate a target at 100 metres

ShockRounds are specialised bullets - fully compatible with standard ammunition calibres - that discharge an electrical shock upon impact and disrupt the nervous system. They incapacitate a living target in an instant - reportedly without risk of injury or death.

US-based MDM Group say their product will make law enforcement safer and more certain, save lives and reduce injuries, ensure less “collateral damageâ€, enhance security in aircraft and public places, and reduce legal liability. Oh, and it also promises to revolutionise the munitions industry.

Unlike stun guns and similar weapons, they say, ShockRounds rubber bullets can incapacitate a target at 100 metres, “whereas traditional rubber bullets are largely ineffective at their maximum range of about 40 metresâ€. Unlike the Taser, their bullets aren’t restricted to close range use, and don’t require a direct wire link to the target.

MDM Group estimate the worldwide market for metal bullets at over R30-billion, and the rubber bullet category at a more modest (but rapidly growing) R975-million.

ShockRounds employ the “piezoelectric effect†to generate a high-voltage charge from PZT ceramic crystals.

Are they about to corner this new market? It depends on whom you believe. Taser, manufacturers of the celebrated stun devices, have already announced a “non-lethal†electrically charged bullet with a capacitor that discharges on impact (known as the Extended Range Electronic Projectile). Jaycor’s “Sticky Shocker†works on a similar principle. MDM reckons its product beats these opponents in terms of flexibility and capability.

Rubber bullets are an increasingly common method of incapacitation and er… “behaviour modificationâ€. They are usually effective and generally non-lethal, but much depends on the point of impact.

According to Professor Michael Krausz and colleagues at the Rambam Medical Centre in Haifa, Israel, who analysed the medical records of casualties admitted to hospital during Israeli-Arab riots in October 2000, firing the types of rubber bullets that are currently used on civilians makes it impossible to avoid severe injuries to vulnerable body regions such as the head, neck and upper torso, leading to “substantial mortality, morbidity and disabilityâ€.

His conclusion: “New types of ammunition with less force of impact than those currently in use are urgently needed.â€

The problem with current rubber bullets is that they all depend on momentum to deliver a sufficiently strong impact to disable the target. Because this decreases across distance, currently available rubber bullets are fired at a high (and rapidly decreasing) velocity. They generally have insufficient impact at long range and excessive impact at close range.

A healthy man could probably throw a 250-gram rock, Molotov cocktail or other harmful missile about 60 m. Rubber bullets, however, have a maximum effective range of only 30m. So, to use these rubber bullets, law enforcement authorities need to enter well within striking range of these rocks and other harmful missiles.

Consequently, they are often unable (or unwilling) to use rubber bullets for controlling violent crowds, and opt for more lethal solutions.

Whereas ShockRounds require a certain degree of momentum to actuate their electric charge, they do not rely primarily on high-velocity kinetics. Instead, the bullets are designed to discharge a high enough voltage to stop a criminal without doing real damage. The MDM Group claim an effective range of anything from 1 m to 130m.

Comments a spokesperson: “Because of the potential harm from threat personnel, police doctrine calls for the engagement of the threat until the target is ‘downed’ (on the ground). As was seen in a highly publicised case in New York a few years ago, an individual reaching for his wallet in a doorway - in response to police orders - was shot over 40 times before he fell to the ground dead, ending the engagement. A ShockRounds bullet would have achieved this with one shot.â€

There is a well-recognised need for a less lethal alternative that equals or increases current levels of stopping power, insists the company. Military and law enforcement are not only under the constant pressure from public relations, politics, litigation, and personal ethics to save as many lives a possible, but may also have tactical reasons for non-lethal incapacitation - for example in anti-terrorism operations, where live captives are more useful than the dead variety.

Then there’s airline security. Shock-Rounds can ensure that one shot takes the threat down. MDM says they’ve begun development of a frangible (breakable) round that would not penetrate the aircraft wall.

Could ShockRounds work in South Africa? MDM spokesman Trevor Ruehs says they would “definitely†consider selling their product here once development work is complete – probably some time next year.

The South African Police Services declined to comment, but a ballistics expert was adamant there was no such thing as an effective yet non-lethal round. “Can the round penetrate several layers of clothing to do its work? What if it hits an artery, or an eye? The infra-orbital bone behind the eye is paper-thin -– and then there’s the brain.â€

A working ShockRounds prototype will be ready by early 2005, says MDM, and a fully tested product will be available by the end of that year.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It’s harmless. No, really

If you thought ShockRounds represented the last word in advanced “non-lethal†weapons systems, you need to know about the StunStrike CQSR (Close Quarters Shock Rifle), developed by US firm Xtreme Alternative Defence Systems.

Intent on producing a non-lethal, neuromuscular disruptor that required no direct contact between weapon and target, they’ve come up with a rifle – frankly, it looks more like a bazooka – purportedly capable of “stopping and dropping any person or group of people with no long-term harm doneâ€.

The company claims the weapon can also immobilise a car by disrupting its electronic ignition system. Apparently it works by projecting a stream of ionised gas at the target, producing a conducting channel for a powerful jolt of electricity. Test results have not been made public, so it’s not clear whether or not the StunStrike will do nasty things to people in poor health.


This article originally appeared in the August 2004 issue of the South African edition of Popular Mechanics magazine.
 
I was going to start a thread about ShockRounds, but a quick search revealed this not-too-old thread with a good primer already put in.

I've been doing some research on less-lethal tech (trying to get a job in the industry) and stumbled upon these little piezoelectric thingies. The only test MDM talks about is a crossbow bolt with a crystal strapped to the end of it.

I'm sure there are some knowledgable folks around these boards. What do you think about the implications of these devices? Would they be useful to law enforcement personnel? Would the more liberal use of firearms with these devices save lives and prevent lawsuits?

Thoughts?
 
My personal belief is that non lethal weapons should be made illegal for police to use. Because it is "non lethal", they are more likely to use it even in non life threatening situations. Heard to many stories of cops tasering schoolkids while trying to subdue them because the teachers couldnt control them.

I have even seen cops mace and taser people just for being loud while not physically resisting arrest. I've seen them use these weapons on peaceful demonstraters on television.

Not sure what the answer is, except for treating every use of mace, taser etc by police as a shooting would be treated, using the exact same procedures, with criminal prosecution if the situation did not warrant it.
 
I don't see how any projectile could be "effective" at 100 yds/meters without considerable velocity...?

Otherwise, the trajectory to that distance would be too much of a "rainbow" for accurate aiming.
 
I am skeptical. Even if it works the shock would be extremely brief.
 
Heard to many stories of cops tasering schoolkids while trying to subdue them because the teachers couldn't control them.
Being there and hearing stories are two diff rent things. I read about some school kids getting tazered, and from what I read it was justified. Just because its a kid, doesn't mean if he is trying to hurt someone, that nobody can do anything about it. Sure most police departments don't train well when it comes to handling small children, but as I recall the tazering ended what the child was doing, and didn't significantly hurt him.

Yes its true that some cops are trigger happy, and will mace/shock someone when it really wasn't needed. However, you will typically find a similar element in almost all cases where a perp was maced/shock, and that is failure to comply with orders. If a cop says you should do something, then do it. If you are told to keep it quiet, and stop doing what your doing, and you don't listen, then don't be surprised if you do get maced.

Sure its possible that your doing everything legal, and a power hungry cop tells gives orders that aren't legal/right. In most cases if you just comply things will be straight end out. There is always the possibility of taking it to court as well. Of course the media and movies would have you believe that if you comply you will just be beat up. I have news for you, that doesn't fly to well anymore.

If you think normal people have it tough when facing going to court over something like a shooting, trust me the police have it worse. Your career is on the line, you will typically be suspended (with pay) after a shoot, and you will have to go though counseling depending on the department. Even if you were justified 100% in what you did, most of the time you will be treated like that was not the case. If the cop did something illegal, then he should be prosecuted. Cops do screw up, but the majority of them are decent people. Its not easy being anyone involved in a shooting, or even a tazering.

One other thing I want to mention is how the media and movies make it seem like there are so many corrupt trigger happy cops in the world. There are probably more then 1,000 tazerings/macings in the USA every day, but we only hear about the one with the kid. Same thing with firearms, we hear about one shoot where many bullets were fired that didn't hit the target, yet the 10 shootings in the past week all ended up with better results. All of a sudden because of one shoot where a lot of lead was flying through the air, all the cops on the department are trigger happy. Lets say 10 officers that shot 100 times at a bad guy are indeed trigger happy. Those 10 officers on a medium sized department of 2,000 officers, account for a half of a percent of the force. You can't judge a entire department by that, it would be like saying the entire world loves the color red, when your basing that one on a study of one half of one percent of the population. Its still a high number of people obviously, but accuracy would be terrible.

As far as these ruber bullets go, I believe the idea could work, however I don't see how you could have it work at 100 yards, yet not have significant foce at say 7 yards.
 
Piezoelectric generating thingies I'm familiar with only generate static electricity, like a propane grill ignitor. Static discharge "stun guns" are 100% ineffective, even the 400,000 volt ones. They feel like getting snapped with a giant rubber band, and that's it. No loss of muscle control, no nothing.

There's no way in hell you could power an actual tazer mechanism using piezoelectric things, unless there have been massive leaps and bounds in electric technology in the last year.
 
If tasering a nine year old doesnt significantly hurt kids, then why dont teachers use it in the classroom on a regular basis.

Fundamental concept, I have a right to be loud, called the first amendment, freedom of speech was so important that they made it the first amendment. If I am ever tasered by a cop for voicing my opinion, I have enough money that he will face a never ending series of personal liability suits until I see him living on the street.

yes GregGry, be a good little sheep, do what the nice little officer with a badge says and it will be alright.
 
As was seen in a highly publicised case in New York a few years ago, an individual reaching for his wallet in a doorway - in response to police orders - was shot over 40 times before he fell to the ground dead, ending the engagement. A ShockRounds bullet would have achieved this with one shot.

Well, at the very least they need a better spokesman... :D
 
If tasering a nine year old doesnt significantly hurt kids, then why dont teachers use it in the classroom on a regular basis.
The question is how many 9 year olds are so out of control that it took a tazering to get them under control? The teachers just call for someone to pick the kid up and bring him to the office anyway. If anyone would have tazers it would be the people there :p. And even then there would be a huge lawsuit over it the first time they used it.

Yes free speech is your right, but if you start talking like "kill pigs" in a crowd of drunk people, don't be surprized if you get arrested. There are limits to what you can say at certain times/places.
 
The brief duration of the shock is what got me, too. On their site they have a little video of a round being fired with a crossbow. The spike at acceleration was pretty big, and then a huge spike at impact, but they were both short-lived. I don't know what kind of stopping power the pulse would contribute, but if my rifle zapped me every time I fired it, I'd flinch like a rabbit every time I squeezed that trigger.
 
There are several reasons to be extremely skeptical of the predictions for this particular technology.

  1. Energy - Their demonstration focuses on voltage, when the major factor in the new taser's becoming effective enough for general use was an increase in wattage. If someone with an electrical background would like to comment on the wattage (or the joules) that they're likely to get out of such a Piezoelectric discharge, I think it would advance our discussion greatly. Taser international's spec sheet for the X-series Taser can be found here for comparisons.

  2. Duration - The newer more effective tasers shock for a five second cycle, and even after that, most people are able to get up immediately. During training, I have seen application under a half second fail to knock someone down. In order to gain incapacitation with a shock lasting far less than a half second, there would have to be some mechanism of incapacitation other than just interfering with muscle control and a cycle of painful shocks. A mechanism that persists would obviously have a dramatically higher likelyhood of lasting injury.

  3. Penetration - In order to obtain their current level of success, the M and X series tasers use a barbed probe between a quarter and a half inch long. In spite of this, thick clothing is the single most common cause of failure. If these shockrounds are designed to fire out of a conventional firearm, without probes, travelling at a velocity that makes them very unlikey to penetrate skin, they will acheive less penetration of clothing, and therefor have less success than the current tasers.

They seem to be making some very strong claims for a product with lots of development left, and what appears to be several unresolved problems ahead of them.
 
Well, assuming for a moment that the shock itself would be pathetically inadequate for target incapacitation in a less-lethal round, what would it contribute to a standard metal bullet?

Would the zap contribute to the shock and impact and trauma of being shot, or would it be totally eclipsed by the terminal ballistics of the round itself?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top