BridgeWalker
Member
So, I suscribe to a list of a bunch of local moms. Most of them are hyper-liberal (I believe the word "granola" may apply) and honestly, I'm increasingly on the edge and not interested in maintaining close ties because the over-the-top liberalism is really overshadowing the things useful in the group.
MI is considering allowing limited concealed weapons in schools. Several women on this group are freaked about this. I have composed a response, quoting relevant comments and responding. I'd sure appreciate comments and suggestions before posting to the group. Essentially, with this message I'll be "coming out" as the "gun-totin' redneck" that I am, underneath that nice suburban mom/law student facade. Anyway, here it be:
--------------------
"Just wondering what others' thoughts are on this...."
Since you asked...
"I feel they are trying to cut costs by allowing teachers to carry weapons, rather than hiring a certified individual. Further, I'm not sure that this is teaching our children to solve their problems without violence"
I'm confused. Should we be teaching kid that violence is bad, or that violence is bad unless you are a security guard/police officer?
I personally don't feel that carrying a concealed weapon is an act of violence.
"if our kids see them with guns (or know that they have them)"
Concealed weapons means that the kids don't see the guns, or know which teachers have them or when.
"Teachers are supposed to be role models...won't it teach them that its ok to solve their problems this way?
I sure hope so. I hope my daughter knows that defending herself, or allowing others to defend her safety is ok.
"I dont think I'd feel safer if it were locked away though. "
I wouldn't either. If it's locked away it can't be used when needed.
"I wonder if this is mainly going to happen in high crime school districts
where teacher's are at great risk? "
I hope it is widespread. Columbine High and Virginia Tech were not "high risk" schools. In both of those schools, concealed weapons carried by staff would have save lives.
"Even if those are the only schools that used this, those are also the schools where the gun is more likely to be taken from the teacher in the first place. Many of those places have metal detectors and such because students are such a threat to begin with. All it takes is a couple students to tackle a teacher and now they have the gun and the teacher doesn't. "
Very unlikely scenario. Students wouldn't know which teachers were carrying and they wouldn't know how they were carrying. A concealed weapon is not easily grabbed.
"One person (if we presume the metal detectors
are 100% effective) brings a gun into the mix. "
That is a very dangerous assumption, and although I don't have stats, others have commented that it is not true: lots of guns do get by metal detectors.
"I hate the term "peacemaker" when applied to a bigger badder
weapon"
Non-sequiter.
"A wise person can make
peace as easily with his body and voice as he can with a baton, knife,
or gun."
That is very true. It is also true that an unarmed person can get very dead by relying on his body and voice.
"Guns are
only the solution if you're watching a Hollywood action flick."
Or, say a student at Columbine High or Virginia Tech.
Now, I'm far, far from a school-shooting alarmist, but I don't see the point in disarming large groups of people congregated into a small area. It invites predators.
"is there anything to
prevent unstable employees from obtaining a CCP?"
The questions on the CPL application that deal with mental illness and the follow-up period of investigation.
" I've seen
enough teachers with poor judgment in non adrenaline/cortisol charged
situations that I'd be very concerned about their potential actions in
an emotionally charged situation with weapons in play."
Ditto police officers. But, sadly, the worst judgement and behavior tends to exhibited by criminals. The safest response to armed criminals is armed defenders. And anyone who has the skill and judgement to operate a weapon is a potential defender.
"Now imagine a school where the metal detectors have successfully kept
out all guns. In such a school if you arm the staff, you've just
introduced guns that can be stolen by the students and used against
their peers and staff. How pointless is that?"
I'm imagining, but it's requiring my imagination to work pretty hard. There seems to be a consensus that it doesn't work that way.
It is quite difficult to steal a concealed handgun.
"I think this is just crappy legislation designed to make the public
feel safe about their schools."
It's working. Or it will, if it gets passed and implemented. I hope there is disclosure of who carries, so that I can try to make sure that my daughter ends up in a classroom with a gun.
We have no problem with presidents and governors and even high-level business people having armed bodyguards. I accord my own child no less care and respect.
"The truth is any school where arming
staff is considered a reasonable response to safety concerns has far
deeper problems than can be addressed by arming staff."
It is not a function of any one school but of society in general. And not even society today. It is not a good idea to have lots of unarmed people concentrated in a small area, ripe for victimization. Just ask my ancestors in the ghettos of Eastern Europe. Except of course, that most of them are dead.
"Are any among us naive enough to believe a school district
that would allow guns in to increase security is willing to do the
deep work needed to make the schools safe environments where children
can thrive and learn?"
Guess so.
Any school that respects my child's safety and its teachers' judgement and training enough to take the step of implementing a concealed carry program is absolutely a school that respects individuals and their right to live safely.
In my book that beats the heck out of requiring that my child be completely vulnerable to any criminal who gains entry to her school simply because many people find guns distasteful.
MI is considering allowing limited concealed weapons in schools. Several women on this group are freaked about this. I have composed a response, quoting relevant comments and responding. I'd sure appreciate comments and suggestions before posting to the group. Essentially, with this message I'll be "coming out" as the "gun-totin' redneck" that I am, underneath that nice suburban mom/law student facade. Anyway, here it be:
--------------------
"Just wondering what others' thoughts are on this...."
Since you asked...
"I feel they are trying to cut costs by allowing teachers to carry weapons, rather than hiring a certified individual. Further, I'm not sure that this is teaching our children to solve their problems without violence"
I'm confused. Should we be teaching kid that violence is bad, or that violence is bad unless you are a security guard/police officer?
I personally don't feel that carrying a concealed weapon is an act of violence.
"if our kids see them with guns (or know that they have them)"
Concealed weapons means that the kids don't see the guns, or know which teachers have them or when.
"Teachers are supposed to be role models...won't it teach them that its ok to solve their problems this way?
I sure hope so. I hope my daughter knows that defending herself, or allowing others to defend her safety is ok.
"I dont think I'd feel safer if it were locked away though. "
I wouldn't either. If it's locked away it can't be used when needed.
"I wonder if this is mainly going to happen in high crime school districts
where teacher's are at great risk? "
I hope it is widespread. Columbine High and Virginia Tech were not "high risk" schools. In both of those schools, concealed weapons carried by staff would have save lives.
"Even if those are the only schools that used this, those are also the schools where the gun is more likely to be taken from the teacher in the first place. Many of those places have metal detectors and such because students are such a threat to begin with. All it takes is a couple students to tackle a teacher and now they have the gun and the teacher doesn't. "
Very unlikely scenario. Students wouldn't know which teachers were carrying and they wouldn't know how they were carrying. A concealed weapon is not easily grabbed.
"One person (if we presume the metal detectors
are 100% effective) brings a gun into the mix. "
That is a very dangerous assumption, and although I don't have stats, others have commented that it is not true: lots of guns do get by metal detectors.
"I hate the term "peacemaker" when applied to a bigger badder
weapon"
Non-sequiter.
"A wise person can make
peace as easily with his body and voice as he can with a baton, knife,
or gun."
That is very true. It is also true that an unarmed person can get very dead by relying on his body and voice.
"Guns are
only the solution if you're watching a Hollywood action flick."
Or, say a student at Columbine High or Virginia Tech.
Now, I'm far, far from a school-shooting alarmist, but I don't see the point in disarming large groups of people congregated into a small area. It invites predators.
"is there anything to
prevent unstable employees from obtaining a CCP?"
The questions on the CPL application that deal with mental illness and the follow-up period of investigation.
" I've seen
enough teachers with poor judgment in non adrenaline/cortisol charged
situations that I'd be very concerned about their potential actions in
an emotionally charged situation with weapons in play."
Ditto police officers. But, sadly, the worst judgement and behavior tends to exhibited by criminals. The safest response to armed criminals is armed defenders. And anyone who has the skill and judgement to operate a weapon is a potential defender.
"Now imagine a school where the metal detectors have successfully kept
out all guns. In such a school if you arm the staff, you've just
introduced guns that can be stolen by the students and used against
their peers and staff. How pointless is that?"
I'm imagining, but it's requiring my imagination to work pretty hard. There seems to be a consensus that it doesn't work that way.
It is quite difficult to steal a concealed handgun.
"I think this is just crappy legislation designed to make the public
feel safe about their schools."
It's working. Or it will, if it gets passed and implemented. I hope there is disclosure of who carries, so that I can try to make sure that my daughter ends up in a classroom with a gun.
We have no problem with presidents and governors and even high-level business people having armed bodyguards. I accord my own child no less care and respect.
"The truth is any school where arming
staff is considered a reasonable response to safety concerns has far
deeper problems than can be addressed by arming staff."
It is not a function of any one school but of society in general. And not even society today. It is not a good idea to have lots of unarmed people concentrated in a small area, ripe for victimization. Just ask my ancestors in the ghettos of Eastern Europe. Except of course, that most of them are dead.
"Are any among us naive enough to believe a school district
that would allow guns in to increase security is willing to do the
deep work needed to make the schools safe environments where children
can thrive and learn?"
Guess so.
Any school that respects my child's safety and its teachers' judgement and training enough to take the step of implementing a concealed carry program is absolutely a school that respects individuals and their right to live safely.
In my book that beats the heck out of requiring that my child be completely vulnerable to any criminal who gains entry to her school simply because many people find guns distasteful.
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and maybe this when you read their replies 
