Safety versus rights

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beretta9

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Headline of the article at www.Heraldandnews.com The results are finally in from the poll they took a few weeks ago. This was weather people with concealed handgun licenses should be allowed to carry in school.

Nearly 150 Klamath Basin residents say people with concealed weapons permit should be allowed on school campuses with their firearms.
Yet some police and school administrators disagree, saying guns on campuses-regardless of who has possession of them-pose public safety risks that outweigh a constitutional right.
Eighty-five percent of 171 respondents in an informal Herald and News online survey said those with permits should be allowed on school grounds with guns. About 11 percent disagreed and 3 percent were undecided.
Many respondents posed the argument: If people are trained and allowed by law to carrying concealed weapons to defend themselves, why can't they have that right in schools?
Medford case
The issue gained state and national attention recently when a South Medford High School teacher refused to comply with a gun ban imposed by the Medford School Board. The teacher, Shirley Katz, challenged the restriction, but a Jackson County judge upheld district policy. Reports indicate Katz plans to appeal the judge's decision.
While some officials rally behind the constitutional right to bear arms, the same officials still say guns on school grounds pose high safety risks.
Among them: gun carriers are not trained like police officers to possess firearms-and in schools, they are around a dense population of kids.
"You have an environment loaded with children," said Klamath Falls Police Officer Randel Gavin, a resource officer at Ponderosa Middle School. "What kind of danger is that teacher putting children in?"
Gavin said officers undergo hours of training on how to handle firearms. Training includes weapon retention - keeping a weapon away from somebody who tries to take it.
Those with concealed weapon permits take a gun safety course and classes that usually last from a day to a few days.
Law enforcement officials say they would worry about students stealing guns if teachers were allowed with them on campus.
Klamath county Sheriff's Deputy Bill Rosarion said teachers carrying guns could create a confusing and chaotic environment in the event of a violent incident. For example, if a teacher tried to restrain a student with a gun, it would be difficult for officers to know "who's the bad guy and who's the good guy," Rosario said.
"Something you definitely want to respect is people's constitutional right to bear arms and defend themselves," said Rosario, who is a resource officer at Mazama High School. "The permit doesn't come with a badge. It could create any even more dangerous situation for someone doing the right thing."
School officials said they'd rather have security in other ways. Mazama High Principal Terry Bennett said his school works at building relationships to deter violence.
"I don't think arming staff is what you need to do," he said. "I think it's about building relationships with your students, parents and being proactive."
Klamath County School Superintendent Greg Thede said his school district recently hired two school resource officers and expanded surveillance cameras in schools. "Student safety is a priority in our district," he said.
 
They certainly only presented one side of the argument in that story.
 
I see it a little different, I don't think beretta9 is taking the anti side, jsut showing us the story.

Of course the story is slanted anti, it comes from the main stream press. What the story points out is that "they" know better than the people what constitutes safety and the will of the people is of course not important. Just a bit of "know your enemy"
 
Gavin said officers undergo hours of training on how to handle firearms. Training includes weapon retention - keeping a weapon away from somebody who tries to take it.
Those with concealed weapon permits take a gun safety course and classes that usually last from a day to a few days.

I think he shot himself in the foot with this statement. (pun intended)
 
Gavin said officers undergo hours of training on how to handle firearms. Training includes weapon retention - keeping a weapon away from somebody who tries to take it.
Those with concealed weapon permits take a gun safety course and classes that usually last from a day to a few days.
Hmmm...

Hours...

vs

Days...

And just thinking out loud here I have to wonder who actually practices more with their firearms and are more safety conscious? The police or a CCW holder?
 
Yet some police and school administrators disagree, saying guns on campuses-regardless of who has possession of them-pose public safety risks that outweigh a constitutional right.
I cannot comprehend the minds that somehow manage to rationalize ways for regulations to "outweigh" Constitutional rights. And I cannot fathom or stomach judges who do not understand what "shall not be infringed" means.

And I'll bet I could take my 1911 into a grade school class and deliver a talk on firearms safety without shooting myself in the foot.
 
I don't understand why people like that have to stay in America.

I am a FIRM believer that there should be a place in the world for just about everyone. That is why we have separate nations and in the US, separate states. You can always move somewhere else that already fits your ideals. If these people want to have safety over rights, good for them. Move to the UK or some other nanny state. Let us dangerous Americans keep our nation of Rights with the danger and responsibility that entails. They are free to live somewhere that fits with how they want to live, BUT we should be free to live somewhere that fits with OUR idea of how to live. That's what the Constitution is for. It sets the standard for how the US works. Don't like it, there are over 100 other nations out there. I'm sure you can find one that fits you better.
 
Man is that guy confused or what?

Interesting he says "security prevails over rights" ... That right was declared to be protected so that there would be security

Seems like this either has to do with control, or lack of wisdom (or both). I don't buy the stories of CCW'ers not being useful to prevent crime because they are not so-called "trained professionals" - like LEO's. BOTH are "trained professionals" as far as the context that is at hand. There are "bad apples" in both, unfortunately, but to blanket-out everyone because of them, sorry, not buying it. Control or lost and confused or both.


It could create any even more dangerous situation for someone doing the right thing
... poor guy!

Sounds like this guy has it all backwards - uh - CCW'ers are carrying because evil exists and they desire doing the right thing - as in not allowing the wrong thing to do its deeds. NOT having a CCW'er around when one is needed seems more like creating 'a more dangerous situation for someone doing the right thing'.


Interesting that they didn't bother interviewing any of the 85 percent :rolleyes:

You weren't supposed to be that bright to notice that. Goes to show how biased the media is, so agenda driven.:scrutiny:



According to Rosario, if there is not a "Gun Free Zone" established:
it would be difficult for officers to know "who's the bad guy and who's the good guy"

There you go! - what a wonderful solution..get rid of the guns from all the good guys and only let the bad guys have them so the police would not be confused. I agree it could cause a little confusion in some cases, but that is in no way even close to being a valid reason to 'not let good people have guns.'

I would cancel my subscription to that paper, and pull my kids from that school if i subscribed or had a kid that enrolled. I would resign if I worked there, and if I saw a thug attacking Rosario in a grocery store, I sadly would have to tell him as I put my gun back into its holster, "I am so sorry, but I just am not trained to your satisfaction to protect you, you'll have to call 911 and have a professional come out for assistance"
 
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Klamath county Sheriff's Deputy Bill Rosarion said teachers carrying guns could create a confusing and chaotic environment in the event of a violent incident. For example, if a teacher tried to restrain a student with a gun, it would be difficult for officers to know "who's the bad guy and who's the good guy," Rosario said.
"Something you definitely want to respect is people's constitutional right to bear arms and defend themselves," said Rosario, who is a resource officer at Mazama High School. "The permit doesn't come with a badge. It could create any even more dangerous situation for someone doing the right thing."

Great. A kindergarten cop speaking for all of law enforcement. Wow. Did he just get promoted from School Crossing Guard?

I'd like to see this jackass' qualifiying scores at the range . . .

School officials said they'd rather have security in other ways. Mazama High Principal Terry Bennett said his school works at building relationships to deter violence.
"I don't think arming staff is what you need to do," he said. "I think it's about building relationships with your students, parents and being proactive."

I remember when I was with the feds, we tried this with the Crips and Bloods. Sure worked out well, and we have no more gangs anywhere in America.

Typical of the vast majority of today's education "administrators."

Klamath County School Superintendent Greg Thede said his school district recently hired two school resource officers and expanded surveillance cameras in schools. "Student safety is a priority in our district," he said.

No, covering his butt seems to be the priority in his district.

Jeff
 
A few things that I always wonder about when I see articles like this . Whenever the subject of training comes up , the writer ALWAYS uses the "fact" that officers train more than someone with a CCW . But , how / where are they getting this information? From my own personal observations , I see people with CCWs at the range much more than the local police . Actually , the only time I do see any LEOS at the range is when they have to qualify .

Now , there ARE officers that like to shoot and do practice fairly often , just as their are people with CCWs that rarely get to the range . But for the most part , the average Joe with a CCW trains more than an LEO . Again , my own personal observations. (Btw , the locals use our club for training and qualifying so we know how often they "train" )

the fact that this writer speaks of "weapon retention" has nothing to do with someone with a CCW . It's obvious that an officer is armed , therefore a chance a perp may try to disarm/take his weapon . Someone concealing has the advantage of the perp not knowing who is armed until it's to late .

I know , I know , preaching to the choir . But I wish more people would call these guys on their "facts" .
 
Berrea9 is all backwards. Why post borderline anti stuff on thr?
:confused:

"Something you definitely want to respect is people's constitutional right to bear arms and defend themselves," said Rosario, who is a resource officer at Mazama High School.
Gives new meaning to the word wishy-washy. I wonder if he is just concerned about his cushy job as a "resource officer".

ptmmatssc quotes:
I know , I know , preaching to the choir . But I wish more people would call these guys on their "facts" .

I think you will be glad to know, there have been over a dozen comments posted in the paper by various readers about concealed carry and only two have been negative. And they were based on ignorance.:D
 
Yet some police and school administrators disagree, saying guns on campuses-regardless of who has possession of them-pose public safety risks that outweigh a constitutional right.

Oh really? Breaking the law is OK if it fits your opinion hu?
The issue gained state and national attention recently when a South Medford High School teacher refused to comply with a gun ban imposed by the Medford School Board. The teacher, Shirley Katz, challenged the restriction, but a Jackson County judge upheld district policy. Reports indicate Katz plans to appeal the judge's decision.
While some officials rally behind the constitutional right to bear arms, the same officials still say guns on school grounds pose high safety risks.

This just goes to show how little our own judges respect the law. I am saying this because of WHY they upheld the decision. They could have just said that it's the collages decision and they have the right to deny guns on school grounds. Nothing more to it then that.
While some officials rally behind the constitutional right to bear arms, the same officials still say guns on school grounds pose high safety risks.
Among them: gun carriers are not trained like police officers to possess firearms-and in schools, they are around a dense population of kids.

Last I checked, the same training that the cops receive is available to the general public, and much better.

Law enforcement officials say they would worry about students stealing guns if teachers were allowed with them on campus.

Ever heard of a lanyard?

School officials said they'd rather have security in other ways. Mazama High Principal Terry Bennett said his school works at building relationships to deter violence.
"I don't think arming staff is what you need to do," he said. "I think it's about building relationships with your students, parents and being proactive."

Honestly, I couldn't agree more with this. Guns on campus won't prevent a school shooting, it'll just provide the opportunity to minimize the damage. What people REALLY need to focus on is keeping them from happening in the first place, and building relations with students and showing them some dignity and humanity is a wonderful place to start. I have studied up on many of these people who went nuts and started mowing people down. All of the ones I have studied on were clearly pushed to the brink.
I myself probably prevented a school shooting once as I got the person to reveal his plans while helping him. I didn't do this by telling the wold about his personal problems, telling him that he was the scum of the earth and treating him like an outcast. The kid is all grown up and doing well last I checked. It's amazing how far a little bit of "whatever the persons needs are" can go.
I still say an armed guard would be a good asset to have.
 
Quote:
School officials said they'd rather have security in other ways. Mazama High Principal Terry Bennett said his school works at building relationships to deter violence.
"I don't think arming staff is what you need to do," he said. "I think it's about building relationships with your students, parents and being proactive."
Honestly, I couldn't agree more with this. Guns on campus won't prevent a school shooting, it'll just provide the opportunity to minimize the damage. What people REALLY need to focus on is keeping them from happening in the first place, and building relations with students and showing them some dignity and humanity is a wonderful place to start. I have studied up on many of these people who went nuts and started mowing people down. All of the ones I have studied on were clearly pushed to the brink.
I myself probably prevented a school shooting once as I got the person to reveal his plans while helping him. I didn't do this by telling the wold about his personal problems, telling him that he was the scum of the earth and treating him like an outcast. The kid is all grown up and doing well last I checked. It's amazing how far a little bit of "whatever the persons needs are" can go.
I still say an armed guard would be a good asset to have.


I actually agree with you too there...that is a great way. I just don't agree with "some police and school administrators" claim of using it instead of guns; Which I feel are necessary because they can reduce the chances of a problem escalating into casualties, etc (no need to justify here why guns are actually a good thing) - it is just why LEO's carry guns - they aren't going to buy some reason for them to stop carrying because "guns aren't going to solve any problem, so get rid of your gun, and work at establishing relationships instead" - and apparently, at least the way i read it, sadly, some LEO's think otherwise, claiming they should be disarmed too if they come on campus:

Yet some police and school administrators disagree, saying guns on campuses-regardless of who has possession of them-pose public safety risks that outweigh a constitutional right

I would include LEO's in that category as well - so if you police that feel that way, let's see you leave your gun in the precinct because you're going to "build relationships instead"

They don't quite understand the situation at hand, either. You have one teacher who desires to carry, and they turn it into a company-mandated stance that all teachers are to be armed. That is ridiculous, its not a prison and there is not that much violence, I presume, to justify saying such a claim:

"I don't think arming staff is what you need to do"

Not arming staff, Mr. Terry Bennet, but allowing staff to be armed. That, is what I would call, quite a nice spin!
 
My letter to the Editor finally published about the guns in school article.
Constitutional rights should not be denied

Concerning the safety versus rights article Jan 3, it is great to see that at least 85 percent of the Herald and News readership has common sense.

If a concealed pistol holder takes his weapon to school, it has to be concealed. How is the weapon going to be taken away if no one knows it is there?

Opponents of the right to carry ask: What kind of danger is a teacher with a concealed weapon putting children into? And that is exactly what I would like to know. How is having the ability to protect the children's very lives, putting them in danger?

School officials can build all the relationships they want, they can have student safety as a priority, but there is always going to be that one individual whose mind is so twisted that he won't obey whatever sign is posted on the front door.

So, if the district has recently hired two school resource officers and expanded surveillance cameras in schools, why are they trying to deny our constitutional right to bear arms to protect ourselves?

I doubt if the article will do any good, but maybe it will get a few people thinking common sense.
 
gun carriers are not trained like police officers to possess firearms

At least he got this part right. A CCWer can actually hit the broad side of a barn from 7 yards.

ptmmatssc said:

But for the most part , the average Joe with a CCW trains more than an LEO
bingo
 
Mysteriously, apparent contradictions between safety and rights always end up being resolved in favor of claims of safety.

Government always looks after the interests of government first and last.
 
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