Empty Cases Sticking in Chamber

aaaaa

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Took my 9mm S&P SD9 VE to the range today. Was firing National Police Ammunition monolithic copper hollow points. Out of 8 rounds, 4 got stuck in the chamber. I had to pry them out with a key (I now have a dowel in my range bag). The last one the gun shop pushed out with a rod. Each of those jammed cases had a dig in the rim, presumably from the extractor slipping off the rim. I don't think it is the gun because after the National Police HPs jammed, I ran 9 rounds of Speer Gold Dots flawlessly. In comparing the National Police ammo to the Speer and other ammo, the cases seem to be the same dimension and length. Additionally, this gun only has had about 50 rounds fired through it since I bought it new.

What could make cases stick in the chamber like that?
 
Carefully measure the shell case diameter in several places. Even under normal use a spent shell case will have expanded one or two thousandths of an inch in diameter. Also, the cases are often oval shaped after firing. It may be that the shell cases in question are expanding more than normal.
 
I had the exact same problem with my 9mm Largo reloads in my Astra 400. The extractor slipped off and left the case pulled halfway... I had to drive it the rest of the way out. Cause: way too much Bullseye. I'm lucky the pistol held together. Don't tell me 400's aren't strong, or that I never make misteaks.
 
I looked at the specs, a 115 grain bullet going 1150 fps. That is right in line with my chronograph tests of 9mm ammunition, and just where I want to be for target ammunition in the 9mm.

Semi auto pistol mechanisms are more sensitive to more dimensional and pressure issues than revolvers. The case has to be sized with sufficient clearance so when the pressure curve drops, the brass comes off the chamber walls. The powder has to have the appropriate pressure curve for the mechanism. Sow powders will cause sticky extraction even though the pressure is "OK". Has all to do with the timing of unlock.

So, your factory ammunition sticks in the chamber. Something is off. The most probable reason is too high a pressure for your pistol. Unlock is occurring when the case is still stuck to the chamber walls. This is not something you can fix. No amount of hand waving or rain dances will make the problem go away. Either the ammunition goes bang and extracts, or it does not. You can contact the manufacturer, maybe they will do something. You can shoot the stuff up, but have brass dowel rods to knock out the cases. And don't buy that ammunition again, whatever their specs are, they are incompatible with your pistol.

This is why all auto pistol owners need to test their self defense loads. Not all factory ammunition is interchangeable in all pistols.
 
Yeah, but that sounds like every manufacturers deflection. "If you have a malfunction IT'S THE AMMUNITION, not our pistol."
Good point. And the chamber had to have been pretty clean since I only had fired a handfull of rounds ahead of the bad ones. I saw some comments on a general web search that said to polish the chamber.
 
Yeah, but that sounds like every manufacturers deflection. "If you have a malfunction IT'S THE AMMUNITION, not our pistol."

Well, not every firearm has undergone extensive development, what designs are put on the market by commercial industry is often back of the envelope, hastily designed and the lifecycle follows the 1970's General Motors philosophy. (The cars of the 1970's were horrible and unreliable) A General Motors executive said "Manufacturing builds it, marketing sells it, and Customer Service makes it work" So do not doubt that the latest "end of history firearm", had a shoe string design budget and the most important developmental test criteria was to spend the least money possible.

And then someone else makes the ammunition.

Winchester rimfires dominated Smallbore Prone for decades. And so did Winchester Match ammunition. What advantage Winchester had, was that their ammunition could be tailored for their rifles, and their ammunition plant, could influence the design of the hardware.

At some level, a firearm dependent on functioning by F=MA each and every time, within a time period of milliseconds, will not be able to accommodate wide variations in brass dimensions, hardness, pressure curves, etc. We are actually very lucky, the most finicky mechanisms (hesitation lock, R51 anyone?) have undergone Darwinian selection and are on the ash heap of history. But it is too much to expect what is left, is somehow immune to the laws of physics and mechanical tolerances. And then add what is likely to be a rushed design and a limited test program, and the user ends up frustrated with an unreliable firearm.

Even the military has a very difficult time ensuring reliable personnel sidearms even though they control the ammunition characteristics, and weapon characteristics.

At some level, it makes more sense to reload, tailor the ammunition you make, so your firearm functions reliably. And always shoot a new mechanism enough to have confidence in it.

And don't be an early adopter!
 
I talked to the person at National Police Ammunition and sent photos of the stuck cases (below is one you can see the nicks, apparently from the extractor slipping off the rim). He will give me a refund, or replacement, whichever I prefer. Good company. He has shot these out of a Smith M&P with no problem so is not sure why I had an issue. I should try them in a different gun. He recommends for a 9mm the CZ75, says one of the best SA/DA triggers. Also he is hearing a lot of good things about Tisas 1911s.
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I had the exact same problem with my 9mm Largo reloads in my Astra 400. The extractor slipped off and left the case pulled halfway... I had to drive it the rest of the way out. Cause: way too much Bullseye. I'm lucky the pistol held together. Don't tell me 400's aren't strong, or that I never make misteaks.
Amen! :rofl:

Stay safe.
 
I had the exact same problem with my 9mm Largo reloads in my Astra 400. The extractor slipped off and left the case pulled halfway... I had to drive it the rest of the way out. Cause: way too much Bullseye. I'm lucky the pistol held together. Don't tell me 400's aren't strong, or that I never make misteaks.
I wonder how hot those NPA cartridges that stuck in the chamber are. I think they are +P anyway.
 
Well lo and behold. I just hit the range again and the NPA ammo ran fine, no jams, no stuck cases, no problem. First I ran two magazines of the Hornady 9mm+P 124gr XTP American Gunner Ammuntion I had picked up to replace the NPA ammo.
Then I ran the one magazine of the NPA flawlessly. I am pleased with these results and cannot fathom why they were jamming last week, other than the gun was hardly broken in. I think I had fired no more than 30 to 40 rounds through it before I first tried the NPA ammo. But it seems to me that I am good with this ammo now.
 
Ok so the post above was yesterday and the gun had been cleaned and lubed since sitting for almost two years from the last cleaning, lubing, shooting. Today without further cleaning or lubing from the 72 rounds total shot yesterday, I went back and here are the results:

Mag 1 15 rounds NPA: 2 rounds had empty case stuck in chamber.
Mag 1 10 rounds Cavalry JHP with 5 Hornady JHP at the top: Ran the 5 Hornady, added 5 more Calvary. All ran fine.
Mag 2 15 rounds NPA: 2 rounds had empty case stuck in chamber.

Going to measure the stuck cases (saved two of them) against the other cases and see if there is a difference.

I can clean and lube and see if it will run two mags of NPA but if the ammo if that is the problem, seems dicey to run ammo that must have a super clean and well lubed gun.
 
This appears to be an issue of a firing chamber that is too small in diameter or has the wrong taper, and/or a shell case that is too large in diameter, and/or a shell case material that is too soft and it excessively permanently expanded, and/or excessively high internal pressure in the cartridge.

Here are the SAAMI specifications for minimum chamber diameter and maximum shell case diameter. Go to page 27.
https://saami.org/wp-content/upload...FP-and-R-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf

Most of us don't have the tools necessary to measure the internal dimensions of the firing chamber. But measuring the OD of a shell case is pretty easy with a digital caliper.

Everyone should have a digital caliper. Harbor Freight has them on sale for $19.99 and they are more than adequate for the average person's needs. https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-...sae-and-metric-fractional-readings-63731.html
 
If this is the only ammo its happening with, the solution seems pretty simple to me, stop using that ammo. ;)
Exactly. I just couldn't help going back and trying it some more. I would try it in another 9mm but only have the one 9mm. Maybe some day.
 
If this is the only ammo its happening with, the solution seems pretty simple to me, stop using that ammo. ;)
"Doctor, doctor, it hurts when I do this..."
"Well, maybe don't do that?"
aaaaa, is there a special reason you're wedded to the NPA ammo?
It makes me crazy when a gun acts up with certain ammo, especially for a gun that might be used for anything serious.
It just messes with your confidence. Shoot something else, and regain faith in the platform.
Moon
 
"Doctor, doctor, it hurts when I do this..."
"Well, maybe don't do that?"
aaaaa, is there a special reason you're wedded to the NPA ammo?
It makes me crazy when a gun acts up with certain ammo, especially for a gun that might be used for anything serious.
It just messes with your confidence. Shoot something else, and regain faith in the platform.
Moon
I won't be buying any more of the NPA ammo, but have a few boxes to decorate my shelf. IF I ever get another 9mm (CZ 75 maybe), I would see how it runs, but for now it is a good paperweight.
 
aaaaa, I'm down to buying ammo, due to the primer problem. Luckily, I got some Blazer Brass, which chronos virtually the same as my handloads.
I also have a couple hundred WWB, left from when WalFart was selling bulk packs for $13something @ 100. They run well enough in most things, but they caused extraction problems in an SA-35, and were 'snappy' in the 365. They do clock faster than the BB.
Anyway, I feel your pain, stuck with some troublesome ammo. :)
Moon
 
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