Empty Cylinder

[Charles Z]

I carry a s&w j-frame, enclosed hammer, 5 rd cylinder. Should the revolver be carried with an empty cylinder under the hammer?
I've owned several wheel guns and the answers have been different for different models and different for the same model. Can anyone clear this up?
Thanks

 

[Racinbob]

Keep them all full on the S&W Charles. Can't fire unless the trigger is pulled. There's some, mainly single actions, that this isn't true though.

 

[rcmodel]

All DA S&W's made in the last 110 years are safe to carry fully loaded.

All those made since the end of WWII even 100% more so due to an additional hammer block safety.

And hammerless models even more then that because the hammer is completely enclosed.

The same applies to any modern DA revolver made by Colt, Charter Arms, Dan Wesson, Ruger, Rossie, Taurus, etc.

Single-actions based on the old Colt SAA design are not safe with a round under the hammer and should be loaded with only five rounds.

rc

 

[Old Fuff]

All DA S&W's made in the last 110 years are safe to carry fully loaded.

Not exactly. All of them rebounded (retracted) the hammer after the revolver was fired, and then blocked the hammer at the foot (bottom). If the exposed hammer was hit a hard enough blow the hammer stud (on which the hammer rotated) could crack and allow the upper part of the hammer to move far enough forward to fire a cartridge in front of it.

During the 1920’s and 30’s S&W tried an additional hammer block that blocked the hammer just under the hammer nose (firing pin). But they depended on a spring-like system to work, and sometimes the safety could be compromised because of fouling or a cracked spring.

In 1944 a Victory Model / Military & Police .38 revolver was dropped from a substantial distance to the hardwood deck of a battleship and discharged, killing a sailor. The Navy demanded quick remedial action, and go it. Smith & Wesson incorporated a positive hammer block that is still used today. They don’t have it in those models that have an enclosed hammer because it’s considered to be unnecessary, and over the years this has proved to be true.

Colt double-action hand ejectors have a similar hammer block that has been used since 1908, and all Ruger double-action revolvers have transfer-bar safeties. Both are safe to carry fully loaded.

 

[Drail]

The holes in the "cylinder" that contain the cartridges are referred to as "chambers". A revolver only has one "cylinder". Correct nomenclature prevents confusion.

 

[rcmodel]

Not exactly.

I know that.
I was trying to keep it simple and too the point in answer to the guys question about a modern hammerless J-Frame..

Do you recommend a guy with a modern hammerless S&W only load 4 chambers?
Or the guy with the old 1917 only load 5?

That's the point I was trying to make.

rc

 

[Old Fuff]

I know that.

I know that you know...

But someone who didn't know might take your statement literally and think it was safe to carry great-grandpa's old S&W fully loaded. The chance of an unexpected discharge is remote, but possible. For that reason I went into more detail.

No offence intended...

 

[Charles Z]

Pardon for the chamber--cylinder gaff. And thanks to all. Now I know if I blow my pecker off it'll be my fault! Thanks again.

 

[tango2echo]

What about a SA that has a half-cock position? Should it still be carried with a chamber empty? For example, many percussion revolvers, and many SAA clones, have a half cock position. I always have had an empty, but many people I've seen don't.

Not to HJK the post, but figured since we were on the topic.

 

[oldfool]

old fluff will be along shortly and will know
Me, I really don't know, some half cocks are a lot better than others
Me (wussie), I never depend on any half cock as sole "safety"
depending on specific make model, I will either have an empty chamber, or a safety on, even if using half cock... and I do use both safety and half cock on anything I have that has both (for a loaded chamber/tube)

live or die gunfights really are not all THAT commonplace amongst us joe average non-LEO civilians
AD/NDs are more common than they need be

 

[dfariswheel]

The "half-cock" (actually called the safety notch) on traditional types of single actions IS NOT safe.
If the hammer spur is struck, the hammer or trigger will break and the gun can fire.

Most of the old muzzle loading black powder revolvers had pins or notches between chambers to act as a safety.
The hammer was lowered between chambers onto the pin or notches and the gun was safe to carry with all chambers loaded.

One story I read (Elmer Keith??) said that when the new Colt Single Action Army came out in 1873, everyone assumed that it was intended that the "half cock" was so the revolver could be carried fully loaded.
According to the story, people discovered a problem when saddling a horse. You throw the stirrup over the saddle while you fasten the girth.
If the stirrup slipped off the saddle, it invariably landed right on the hammer spur, firing the Colt.
Everyone started carrying with "5 beans in the wheel" instead of 6.

 

[Old Fuff]

Half-cock safeties on both handguns and long arms are generally unsafe because a hard blow on the hammer will break off the tip of the trigger or sear, after which the hammer can fall - sometimes with obvious results.

On Colt and Remington percussion revolvers (or copies thereof) the half-cock position has nothing to do with being a safety. The purpose is so the cylinder will be unlatched and rotated for loading. The correct carry position is to rest the hammer fully down and resting between the nipples. However if you do this be sure you don't turn the cylinder or the ball end of the bolt will and make a ring around the cylinder. I prefer to carry on an empty and uncapped chamber instead.

Colt Single Action revolvers - and clones of them - have three notches on the hammer. The first one is a so-called "safety notch," but it isn't if the revolver is dropped and lands on the end of the hammer spur. Therefore ignore it and ALWAYS carry the hammer down on an empty chamber. The next notch is the half-cock, and like cap & ball revolvers positions the hammer so the cylinder can be rotated to load or unload it. NEVER CARRY A SINGLE ACTION WITH THE HAMMER AT HALF-COCK! The last notch is the full-cock, which holds the hammer until you pull the trigger. Never bring the hammer to full cock until you're ready to shoot.

Ruger single action revolvers made after 1972 have entirely different lockwork, and can be safely carried fully loaded with the hammer down. The same is true of those made by Beretta/Uberti.

 

[tango2echo]

Very well explained. Now I understand "why" I load one, skip one, load four, and put the hammer down on the empty. Thank you.


t2e

 

[Seedtick]

Now that was funny!

Now I know if I blow my pecker off it'll be my fault!

Yes, Charles, that's gonna pretty much be on you.


ST

 

[Gary A]

Now I know if I blow my pecker off it'll be my fault!

A perfect example of correct nomenclature preventing confusion.