Endshake question

Status
Not open for further replies.

RSVP2RIP

Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
791
Location
NE Illinois
I have a S&W 66 (no dash) that has some forward to back movement of the cylinder. There is .010" of movement measured with a digital caliper with the hammer cocked. Is see that Power Custom makes shims. They have two types, cylinder and yoke shims. Brownells also has a crane strecher which looks like more work than nessasary. How do I determine which ones I need? When I open the cylinder the crane itself has no movement, but in order to open the cylinder I first have to pull the cylinder to the rear. I assume that the latch cannot reach the latch pin through the cylinder to unlock the ejector lock. Please help me as I don't want to invest in a trip to the gunsmith
 
If the crane is tight, you need to put shim(s) at the front of the cylinder. But, 0.010" should not be enuf that the latch won't function. What is the total cylinder gap, i. e.; with the cylinder pulled to the rear? Frame might be stretched a tad.
 
Are you using a feeler gage with the revolver at full lock up (trigger held to rear) and pushing back, or holding back the cylinder, then inserting the gage?
Normal barrel/cylinder gap should be .004 - .006.
 
Mistake, don't know what I was looking at gap is .014". I have a new (shot a little) 686 and it's gap is .010". I don't know if it is supposed to be that tight (.004-.006"). My Diamondback is .012" also. My 1913 .38 Hand Ejector is .008" and that is the tightest one I own.
 
Here's the measurement method and the specs:

With the gun UN-COCKED and the action at rest gently push the cylinder forward and hold it there.
Use an automotive feeler gage to gage the barrel/cylinder gap.
Push the cylinder to the rear and hold it while you gage it again.

Subtract one measurement from the other and that's how much cylinder end shake you have.

For S&W revolvers, the end shake cannot be over 0.006".
Colt's are much tighter specs with the maximum allowed being 0.003".

S&W revolvers can have end shake corrected by three methods.
1. Trim the rear of the cylinder yoke to true it up, then install greased hardened stainless bearings.

2. Stretch the yoke barrel by inserting a hardened steel stud to act as a support, then gently peen the yoke barrel to stretch it.

3. Use a special tool made from a tubing cutter to stretch the yoke barrel.
The tubing cutter has the hardened cutting wheel rounded off to a round, non-cutting edge.
The tool is used on the rear of the yoke barrel. Instead of cutting a groove, the tool rolls a round groove in the barrel, stretching it.

Colt's are VERY different.
You CANNOT use washers or crane barrel stretching on the Colt's since the Colt system is totally different than the S&W.
To correct Colt end shake, the gun must be sent in to the factory, or to one of the VERY few people in the world who have a special hydraulic cylinder collar stretching device.

This device is a pair of hydraulically operated "pincher fingers". A hardened steel stud is inserted into the cylinder to support the collar.
The pincher's fingers are used to grip and squeeze the collar on the front of the cylinder. After squeezing, the cylinder is rotated slightly and squeezed again, until there's a reduced area around the collar.
This actually stretches the collar slightly.
This can be done to the cylinder ONE and ONLY one time due to work hardening of the collar. If the gun again develops end shake, the cylinder has to be replaced, or in the case of guns where no cylinder is available, the cylinder can be carefully machined out and a hardened steel bushing can be pressed in.

Normal barrel/cylinder gap is judged by pushing the cylinder to the rear and gaging with feeler gages. The measurement with the cylinder to the rear is the REAL barrel/cylinder gap, the measurement with the cylinder forward is a false reading caused by excessive end shake.

Normal barrel/cylinder gap is ideal at 0.005"
Colt is out of spec at a maximum of 0.008"
S&W is in factory spec at as much as 0.010".

As you can see, Colt specs are tighter than S&W specs, and this is one reason the Colt's were more expensive, and consistently more accurate.

As for inspecting revolvers with the trigger pulled, this is a valid test ONLY for Colt revolvers, and ONLY for checking the Colt cylinder lock-up.
This is NOT a valid test for S&W, Ruger, Taurus, or Dan Wesson.
All of those revolvers are specifically designed to allow the cylinder to be slightly loose with the trigger held back, and this is so the bullet passing from the chamber to the bore will force the cylinder into alignment with the bore.

Measuring barrel/cylinder gap, or end shake with the trigger held back will give false readings.
 
Back when the Smith 66 was manufactured, the specs for the B/C gap were .004-.009. I saw some Smiths that had as much as .013! I also bought two Astra .44 mags. One had some endshake, but the problem is that when they fixed the endshake, the B/C gap was excessive. When I made them fix the B/C gap, the headspace in the back shot up to .011! Fixing one screwed up the other, so be aware of that. When the forcing cone gap is fixed, use your feeler gauge to measure the distance between an empty cartridge with a seated primer in one of the chambers and the back of the gun. It should be no greater than .008. Or, just shoot the gun and watch your primer indents to see that primer strikes are good and solid.

Anyway, getting back to the Astras, I could never get Interarms to make it right, so I got rid of the one bad Astra, but the other is still in great shape to this day.
 
Normal barrel/cylinder gap is ideal at 0.005"
Colt is out of spec at a maximum of 0.008"
S&W is in factory spec at as much as 0.010".

As you can see, Colt specs are tighter than S&W specs, and this is one reason the Colt's were more expensive, and consistently more accurate.
Ruger's B/C gaps have consistently over the years been between .004 and .006 (the vast majority) that I've seen and I've had a lot of them pass through my hands, not only my own, but for others. Smith's attitude seems largely to have been to hell with the civilians, and if there's a problem with the police models, let the armorers fix them! Bangor Punta was really one of the worst things that ever happened to S&W.
 
OK, using feeler gauges, I have .010" with the cylinder forward, and .014" with the cylinder held to the rear. Cocked or uncocked, holding the trigger back and standing on my head the measurement is the same. This means I have .004" of endshake, correct? Let me clarify... the main problem is that I have to hold the cylinder back to open the gun up. Is endshake the problem? Do I have more than one thing going wrong here? There is no spitting or shaving going on and accuracy is as good as ever. The bolt is flush with the recoil sheild, so is there a problem with center pin or locking bolt in the front? Or do I just have a problem with endshake? Should I invest in a gunsmith, parts or a new gun?
 
Take off the cylinder, turn it upside-down, and push it downward on a firm surface while looking at the front of the extractor rod to see if the center rod comes flush with the extractor rod. It is possible that the center rod is too short, or the ejector rod too long. In itself .004" of end shake is not excessive, although cutting it in half wouldn't hurt a bit. But it may also be that the center rod can't push the lock under the barrel far enough to get the extractor rod unlocked.
 
I get just flush with the end.. When I run my finger over it I can just feel the beginings of an edge. On my 686, the rod comes out a bit proud of the center pin.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top