England Gun Ban Update

[Odd Job]

The other thing is that 4% of families may have guns, but 0% of those are allowed to be used for self defense.
Self defense is not a valid reason to get a firearms certificate, in the eyes of the issuing authorities.

You can't even carry a knife to defend yourself.

The bottom line is that the populace is disarmed. The majority want to be disarmed, because they think this is safer. There is no outrage, no protesting in the streets, no secret meetings of council leaders to discuss the tyranny of being an unarmed populace.

Now despite all of this, it is still better for me to be in the UK than South Africa. It is better because in the UK I can have a job without limitations. I can earn a proper wage and look after a family if that is what I want. I have good career options, reduced workplace risks compared to South Africa, and less chance of being arbitrarily shot just because somebody wants the starter motor of the car that I happen to be driving.

 

[Dravur]

yeeeaaahhhh....

Im gonna have to go with the U.S. here as having more "freedom". It looks like the sheep in GB have been slurping down the Kool-aid and are now relegated to the fading memories of the fact they used to be men.

But, the men are dying off and the new Castradi are taking over. They are too busy sipping lattes and wondering when they will be whacked by a roving pack of yobs than standing up and being men.

Sorry, GB is lost, the land of Churchill has been wussified to the point where Hitler must be laughing his butt off in hell.

We have to keep that from happening here.

 

[tinygnat219]

Sounds like you guys fell for the troll.

 

[throdgrain]

Lots of different opinions, mostly madly nationalistic, as is probably right.

I'm English, I thank the "Yanks" who support us and wish us well. Our country is in a bad state at the moment. I actually liken it in a way to Germany between the wars. But just because a few lunatics and leftys want to tell me what to do, it doesnt mean I'm going to do it.

I'll keep shooting.

edit

oh, that video by the thread starter, its years old

 

[divemedic]

England has no rights left. You can't even have an inflatable wading pool or a BBQ without government permission. Read here.

 

[OMDP]

Mall Ninja

"No right to carry ANY object for the purpose of self defense.
No more right to trial by jury except for the most serious crimes.
No more double jeopardy -- now the govt can try you as many times as it wants. (Shouldn't that guarantee a 100% conviction rate?)
No more right to silence at trial (or to not incriminate yourself).
No more right to legal respresentation.
No more right to confront your accuser(s) in rape trials.

Yet despite all these "enlightened" policies, London is the most violent city in the developed world and you're more likely to be robbed or assaulted there than in Hell's Kitchen."

Hmm, No right to carry any object for the purpose of self defence. This is not so, you may carry a piece of paper if you think it will aid your defence. What we do not have is the carrying of guns in public, but then in the US this is restricted in some place.

No trial by jury except the most serious cases, hmm, you should have been in court when i was a jury member, hardly serious i think.

Double jeopardy law is not as good as you will make it out to be. Surely being "tough on crime" is putting the true criminal behind bars, even if someone like a lawyer messed up. However in the UK it is done sensibly, prosecutors have to get a judge to agree that there is NEW evidence that can be submitted, ie, you cannot be tried twice with the same evidence.

The no right to silence in court i do not know about.

The no right to legal representation, hmm, guantanamo bay anyone?

I'm not sure why you think a man who has raped a woman should then be allowed to terrorise her. Rape is one of the hardest cases to deal with, do you go with the accused or the suspected victim? If you can find a perfect way of dealing with this issue then you are more than welcome to change the legal systems of the world.

Is London the most violent city in the industrialised world? I would say no. Look at the facts, burglary, the stats say it is higher in the UK than the US, problem, the figures in the UK (England and Wales at least) are for both types of burglary, both residential and commercial. Whereas in the US they are for residential only. Looking at residential burglary, it is higher in the US than the UK.
Murders are lower, rape i'm not sure about because there are conflicting statistics but seems to be lower in the UK.
I doubt that Detroit and St.Louis come below London in the crime stakes.

As for your your claim about more likely to be robbed there than hell's kitchen, you have chosen the safest large city in the US, and i still am not convinced you are right.

 

[Tommygunn]

The no right to legal representation, hmm, guantanamo bay anyone?

A tad "below the belt."
All criminals in the U.S. maintain their right to legal representation.
I know this is really "off topic," but I forever wonder why people anywhere insist that those caught by our servicemen on a battlefield overseas be given "trials." What American laws did they violate???? How do we "get off" "trying" people for violating a "law" in some forsaken desert on the other side of the planet??????
They're P.O.W.s
In WW2 we had German POWs incarcerated right here on American soil. We didn't give them trials and we didn't mistreat them, either.
They were also uniformed soldiers who understood they were no longer actually fighters; their war servide was over.
The jihadis we have in Quantanamo do not fit this description. We have, in fact, released some of these -- only to recapture them, AGAIN, on the battlefield.

If you think we're evil for incarcerating them sans trial, invite them to your country.
Please ... ... ...


P.S. Oh, and carrying a piece of paper for defense?? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha..........

 

[Tyris]

This is not so, you may carry a piece of paper if you think it will aid your defence.

Heh. Was this a joke or something?

-T

 

[Luis Leon]

Innocent Men Cannot Be Ruled - hence gun bans of all sorts

Great quote

"It looks like the sheep in GB have been slurping down the Kool-aid and are now relegated to the fading memories of the fact they used to be men."

funny stuff, made me laugh...

The Brits never give their per capital crimes rates... our country is much, much bigger than theirs, so they distort the figures. Every so often, I thank the confluence of events that allowed me to be born in America. America rocks and Britain, oh well... they use to rule the world, once... arrogant bastards had their Empire so reduced that to quote another poster...

funny the country that held off the Nazi's is now afraid of guns and pointy objects :|

regards,

Luis Leon

"If you were born an American you hit the cosmic lotto."
-me

 

[Diggers]

OMPD

I don't wish to flame you. (If you are just a troll I take that back)

I really am interested in how you can believe that the freedoms of the people of England are not being taken away.

In the U.S. its not that just owning a gun suddenly equals freedom. That’s not what Americans believe.

Its the whole idea about WHY we have the right to own guns and thus what guns represent to us. Guns have become an icon of freedom in the US as is gun ownership. It speaks to the idea that as Americans we have the RIGHT to personally defend our lives thus we don't have to depend on some one else to do so.

When you are dependant on some one else to provide something as fundamental as self preservation then YOU ARE LACKING BASIC FREEDOM in your life. And this is BASIC freedom, the bottom of the barrel so to speak.

Independence to make your own choices, not only about self defense but in all areas of life IS FREEDOM.

In England it seems the government has decided that the people no longer have the right to carry items, any item, that you could use to defend yourself OR use arms at home if attacked, so now you (the British people) are less free then you once were. You are TOTALLY dependant on the police to protect you.

It doesn't stop there, what about the cameras that are every where just watching for some one to do some thing wrong? Or that story above about the woman who is forbidden to put a wading pool in her yard because some committee decided THAT was too dangerous? No drinking on the tube now also?? The list goes on and on. INSANITY!!

Why is there SO MUCH fear?


Sorry friend, but from an American point of view, where we still have at least some of our basic freedoms (the right to decide for ourselves) intact, you have been fooled into thinking that the taking away of freedoms has made you safer.

In reality, as I see it, it only has make you dependant AND under the thumb of your government.

 

[M1911]

Don't feed the troll.

 

[English Bob]

Y'all got that right, England is lost.

 

[roscoe]

Don't forget no right to free speech, no restriction of search and siezure, no exclusionary rule, no right to self-defense. These are sometimes expressed by statute, but because there is no constitutional restriction on laws, whatever the majority wants, it gets.

Also, the parliamentary system aligns the legislative majority with the executive, assuring tyrrany of the majority.

 

[gripper]

The Kinks summed it up in "Living on a Thin Line" with the phrase "..but here's no England,now"...

 

[throdgrain]

You all have different opinions, Im afraid some of them so far from reality it's quite amazing

And as this is the internet, people can type such stuff then walk away, and others can see what's been typed and some will believe it.

Just like the original poster, pasting a link about something that happened five years ago.

Listen.

Yes there's crime in London, most of it created NOT by Londoners but by immegrants. If that's racist, well sorry, but it's also true.

To suggest London has more crime than Johannesburg, or Los Angeles for that matter, is simply untrue.

Have we lost lots of our freedoms in this country? Yes we have.

But England is not lost. Not so long as I'm here, and people like me. And there's still many of us.

 

[H088]

Yes there's crime in London, most of it created NOT by Londoners but by immegrants. If that's racist, well sorry, but it's also true.

America is headed down that same path if we don't do something about it,

 

[roscoe]

Well, I would be interested in the situation with regard to personal civil liberties in England. And not just self-defense. It appears to me that the lack of a true written constitution and lack of a high court with judicial review means that anytime the majority wants something it gets it. There appear to be no underlying principles that check the government's intrusion on reducing civil liberties.

The USA may be nuts in some ways, but between the NRA and the ACLU, and the balance of power, the government is kept in pretty good check. At least relative to the rest of the world.

 

[Mk VII]

Written constitutions are, in themselves, of no value without vigorous institutions. The Soviet Union had a written constitution, so does Zimbabwe. Didn't do either of them any good. Australia has a written constitution, and a federal system, and they've gone down the gun ban path.

anytime the majority wants something it gets it

Yeah, and we're proud of it, too. If we want to change the way the country is run then we do it, and we don't want to be trammelled within a constitutional settlement frozen in the eighteenth century which was devised for a very different society and which ends up being adjudicated by unelected judges who can't be got rid of rather than elected politicians who can be changed. Then you have to play the game of trying to pack the bench with your creatures, who can be expected to give the 'right' ruling.

 

[H088]

lol, You need a foundation which can not be undermined.

I certainly wouldn't want only democracy.

 

[Jacka L Ope]

But England is not lost. Not so long as I'm here, and people like me. And there's still many of us.

Keep up the fight for freedom.

 

[throdgrain]

I'm certainly trying


As we speak Im typing this on my laptop (notebook!) from a Hotel in Crepon, France. I'm about 10 miles if that from Sword beach. Im here to witness the D-Day celebrations, something I've always wanted to do.

Many men from both our nations died to protect us from dictatorship.

 

[OMDP]

Tyris

You can use your guns for self defence. If you are attacked at your home. Now, you probably only remember the Tony Martin case which was even dropped by the right wing press because they realised is was not self defence. Even in the US self defence has to be self defence, rather than shooting someone running away.

 

[OMDP]

Dogrunner

Well OMDP, I'd darn well debate you on the issue of slavery.....or bondage....or genocide if you will, as practiced by the freedom loving British.............You all MAY have abolished the formal manner of slavery before we had to fight an ill conceived war over it, but you all did NOT serve as any bastion of universal freedom either. Not by a long, long shot!

What i am not doing is saying the UK is MORE free than the US, what i am saying, from experience of both the US and the UK is that we have about the same amount of freedom. There are things the US has, and things the UK has, and many that we share.
However i have heard a million times that the US is freer than the UK but i simply do not think such a statement is true.

 

[M1911]

However i have heard a million times that the US is freer than the UK but i simply do not think such a statement is true.

Sure. Why don't you pop down to your local gun store, pick up a nice concealed carry handgun, then stop over to your local police station and pick up a concealed carry license. Then tell us just how easy it was.

 

[OMDP]

Tommygunn

4% of your families owning guns doesn't equal freedom, IMHO.

And nor does 33%. Remember that the press in the US is used by certain people to promote their agenda and many people just follow along and accept what they are given. Same happens in the UK even though i think that the british press is much more willing to defend freedom that in the US, the Iraq war is a perfect example.

Well, we don't "need" firearms certificates, or shotgun certificates. As prior poster indicate, we can and do use firearms for self defense.

I am happy for you, knowing you enjoy living in a country that is increasingly trampling your rights.
I will leave you with a favorite little bromide of mine;

Well look at it from this point of view. The Second Amendment does not protect personal self defence, this is protected elsewhere. In the UK we have the same right to protect ourselves, yes many people do not have guns but that does not mean they cannot protect themselves.
The right contained within the Second Amendment is the right to OWN guns with a few things around this like the buying and selling. There is also the often misunderstood bearing of arms which basically protects the right to be in the militia of an individual. This is made clear by the historical evidence around this. So where does your right to anything else come from? It doesn't. Being allowed to do something does not equate to a right, and that is the situation with carry and conceal for example, hunting and other such things which are allowed in many cases, but not protected.