That's cold. But really funny.
Entering The Gun Industry As An Engineer
- Thread starter OneWound
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22-rimfire
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Definitely try to get an internship. You need a little experience to separate you from others when you first graduate.
Learn about the industry and how the process and machining works. If you can't find a job working for an actual firearm company, I would try to find a job in a similar industry in terms of what you actually do.
Keep your grades up and I mean that. It makes a difference especially for your first couple of jobs out of college.
You will do a lot of CAD work. Learn the software so you can be really fast. Being fast allows you to experiment and still get the job done usually for a more senior person quickly.
Learn about the industry and how the process and machining works. If you can't find a job working for an actual firearm company, I would try to find a job in a similar industry in terms of what you actually do.
Keep your grades up and I mean that. It makes a difference especially for your first couple of jobs out of college.
You will do a lot of CAD work. Learn the software so you can be really fast. Being fast allows you to experiment and still get the job done usually for a more senior person quickly.
barnbwt
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Don't bother trying to design complete guns. Think about it; that's the "brass ring" job in gun design, so it therefore will go to the most talented, experienced, and connected persons, entrepreneur or otherwise. Start out with firearms accessories, and you are more likely to find a niche where you, as a small fry, and thrive in peace while you slowly build up your resources to compete with bigger fish. The accessories market is enormous, diverse, and full of items with very small markets (few buyers) but desperate demand (things like semi-auto conversion parts for submachineguns, for instance)
If you want some inspiration, go check out Arne Boberg's website and forum; it is extremely impressive what that guy has accomplished in the last few years, bringing an entirely new handgun concept to market that's been very successful for him. What is neat, is that much of the process was documented since he frequently engaged the online shooting public during design, development, manufacture, and ongoing improvement.
What ever you choose, if you do it yourself you'll need a lot of capital to get going, for which debt helps, but can also get you into deep trouble, very early in your career (and future employers will learn of it). So I would suggest you take any job that will sufficiently pay your bills, and save money like a miser for at least a few years so you have a little nest egg to start out with on this risky journey. At the very least, use the time to get any other debt you have paid off, so a future loan won't tax your already tenuous profit margins.
TCB
If you want some inspiration, go check out Arne Boberg's website and forum; it is extremely impressive what that guy has accomplished in the last few years, bringing an entirely new handgun concept to market that's been very successful for him. What is neat, is that much of the process was documented since he frequently engaged the online shooting public during design, development, manufacture, and ongoing improvement.
What ever you choose, if you do it yourself you'll need a lot of capital to get going, for which debt helps, but can also get you into deep trouble, very early in your career (and future employers will learn of it). So I would suggest you take any job that will sufficiently pay your bills, and save money like a miser for at least a few years so you have a little nest egg to start out with on this risky journey. At the very least, use the time to get any other debt you have paid off, so a future loan won't tax your already tenuous profit margins.
TCB
larryh1108
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It seems that most here see no value in reinventing the wheel. The way I see it, I'm sure companies are looking ahead to find the next, best thing in the firearm world. Who knows what that will be? Electric pulse? Caseless ammo? I'm sure they are looking but have yet found it yet that is cheap enough to produce for the masses. It would seem that you'd have to be proficient in the computer design, CAD or whatever. Who knows who the next Browning or Colt may be?
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Officers'Wife
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My uncle used an old corn crib for his shop and pretty well built all the power tools himself. I'd mention the day he melted down my aluminum cookware to cast the faceplate of a lathe but that would be beside the point. He claimed when he was on contract his working question was how do I keep everything running, at his shop the working question was how do I make this better. Essentially he followed his curiosity which was all over the map!
Case in point, one of his lab notebooks is titled, "The Modification of the Stoner Action to High Performance Ammunition." (Keep in mind his definition of "high performance" was quite different than the accepted term.)
But if you are really looking for a problem to solve how about a magazine you can load without breaking a fingernail!
Willie Sutton
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What most people don't understand that is that firearms manufacturers are just factories making widgets. And in any lifecycle of widget-manufacturing, original design is only a very small part of the total mechanical engineering work.
Production tooling, jigs, measurement for QC, process management, material control, and all of the rest of the daily work is a very larger subject than the actual original design of the product.
There's plenty of engineering work in any factory, and truthfully it's not any different at Smith & Wesson as compared to Briggs & Stratton. Producing electrical outlets or outboard engines or handguns? It's all just making x number of interchangable parts according to a spec, keeping them within spec, and assembling them. The devil is in the details, and engineers figure out the details.
With all that said, with a good background in mechanical engineering and a concentration in actual manufacturing processes, pick something and make it yourself. Pick some accessory, or small niche item, improve it, and become an expert at it. Build yourself as you build your product. You might be surprised at how big both of you become. I speak of this from experience... a very small niche in a very large industry made a very handsome profession for me. The money and satisfaction in the world is in being an entrepreneur, not an employee. Use jobs to gain experience. Use yourself to take that to the level you can achieve on your own.
Willie
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Production tooling, jigs, measurement for QC, process management, material control, and all of the rest of the daily work is a very larger subject than the actual original design of the product.
There's plenty of engineering work in any factory, and truthfully it's not any different at Smith & Wesson as compared to Briggs & Stratton. Producing electrical outlets or outboard engines or handguns? It's all just making x number of interchangable parts according to a spec, keeping them within spec, and assembling them. The devil is in the details, and engineers figure out the details.
With all that said, with a good background in mechanical engineering and a concentration in actual manufacturing processes, pick something and make it yourself. Pick some accessory, or small niche item, improve it, and become an expert at it. Build yourself as you build your product. You might be surprised at how big both of you become. I speak of this from experience... a very small niche in a very large industry made a very handsome profession for me. The money and satisfaction in the world is in being an entrepreneur, not an employee. Use jobs to gain experience. Use yourself to take that to the level you can achieve on your own.
Willie
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Sunray
Member
"...don't think there are many engineering jobs in the firearms industry..." Who do you think digs the holes? snicker.
If you can get an internship, jump on it. There's no work for anybody, doing anything, anywhere, without some experience. And if you don't ask the firearms companies about it, they won't tell you.
You do need to think out of the box when it comes to who you talk to though. There aren't that many companies designing anything, but there are places doing other related stuff. RCBS, etc.
If you can get an internship, jump on it. There's no work for anybody, doing anything, anywhere, without some experience. And if you don't ask the firearms companies about it, they won't tell you.
You do need to think out of the box when it comes to who you talk to though. There aren't that many companies designing anything, but there are places doing other related stuff. RCBS, etc.
I agree. Walter Roper was a brilliant engineer who came up with plenty of action and sighting improvements, not to mention some sweet grips. If you are a clever designer and builder of mechanisms, there is plenty of opportunity for improvement in any gun design. Most of Browning's best work was incremental improvement based on an early, not particularly robust design. He was always tinkering and improving... A lot of folks seem to think the 1911 sprung fully formed from his brow on a cold winter evening. In fact, he worked during a boom time for gun designers, and was fully aware of the work of his peers. I'd be surprised to hear of any engineer who doesn't think the Luger is as brilliant a design as the 1911. If the ability to ingest sand were the most important thing on earth, clams would be the dominant species.
Alright, this is a lot of information. For those who are wondering, I am starting to look for an internship for next summer already!
Willie, thanks for the idea. I have one or two ideas spinning around in my head. Hopefully I can be successful as you one day!
Officers, you can always have shorter fingernails
. As well, your uncle sounds like an interesting man to meet.
MachIV, I understand what you're saying. As it sits, I can understand G&M code for a mill very well and can work my way around a lathe as long as I have G&M code reference material.
Mike, I'm surprised they havn't used them in suppressors yet. You can already 3D print metals, although it's very expensive for the home consumer.
Willie, thanks for the idea. I have one or two ideas spinning around in my head. Hopefully I can be successful as you one day!
Officers, you can always have shorter fingernails
. As well, your uncle sounds like an interesting man to meet.MachIV, I understand what you're saying. As it sits, I can understand G&M code for a mill very well and can work my way around a lathe as long as I have G&M code reference material.
Mike, I'm surprised they havn't used them in suppressors yet. You can already 3D print metals, although it's very expensive for the home consumer.
Mike OTDP
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OneWould, someone may have tried it. But the real virtue of 3-D printing a can would be the ability to make a very complex baffle system. Highly asymmetric.
Jorg Nysgerrig
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You know, there have been dozens of threads like this over the years and I don't recall a single one where someone came back raving about their great new job in the gun industry.
Firearms concepts basically peaked a century ago with every concept being patented before 1900. Refinement of ideas peaked around WW2. If you can find the defense department budgets on firearms, you will find they are trivial.
A bud of mine was on a design team for a 50 caliber rifle. They were all "consultants" as the firearm industry has close to zero in house technical staff.
However, there are growth areas in the defense budget. One that I am aware is Missile defense. There are bunches of short, medium, and long range missiles, but very few systems that can shoot them down. Functioning technology needed for radar systems, guidance and control, to intercept missiles has only been around for a short time, and I predict more work in this area in the coming decades. They need mechanical engineers and project engineers. Single people who don't mind living for months over seas will make good salaries.
A bud of mine was on a design team for a 50 caliber rifle. They were all "consultants" as the firearm industry has close to zero in house technical staff.
However, there are growth areas in the defense budget. One that I am aware is Missile defense. There are bunches of short, medium, and long range missiles, but very few systems that can shoot them down. Functioning technology needed for radar systems, guidance and control, to intercept missiles has only been around for a short time, and I predict more work in this area in the coming decades. They need mechanical engineers and project engineers. Single people who don't mind living for months over seas will make good salaries.
Comrade Mike
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I had a buddy who worked for a firearms company. They're looking more for manufacturing engineers than MechEs right now according to him.
Officers'Wife
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Officers, you can always have shorter fingernails
Unfortunately my uncle died 9/5/2011, but as the resident OMB he kept the place interesting.
As for shorter fingernails... Such a design improvement would make firearm sport more attractive to women. Especially younger women... A manufacturer could use that in advertising to attract a growing demographic of their consumer base making the guy that held the patent rather appealing to the industry. Comprede?
The inevitable move away from lead will bring new problems to firearms and ammunition design. Also consider that we are living in a time of transition between open sights and optics, with optics still an accessory in almost every case. And the optics that are currently available are incredibly primitive. Though I'm not sure *I* want a gun that takes all the challenge out of shooting, if I shot people for a living I suppose I would.
Willie Sutton
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wouldn't rockets be more electric engineering and such because they need to be guided?
They are "Missiles".
Aero would be the engineering discipline for the airframe, Electro-Optics and other specialized EE stuff for guidance, Chem for propulsion, etc. All at graduate levels of education.
And you would likely work for the USAF, as most of the real work is done in-house. At Wright Patterson AFB to be exact.
Willie
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They are "Missiles".
Aero would be the engineering discipline for the airframe, Electro-Optics and other specialized EE stuff for guidance, Chem for propulsion, etc. All at graduate levels of education.
And you would likely work for the USAF, as most of the real work is done in-house. At Wright Patterson AFB to be exact.
Willie
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Comrade Mike
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Well industries/ companies don't really care what's appealing to you, they care about their needs. Generally if you want to get into an industry tailor yourself to their needs.
barnbwt
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Do realize that whatever you do, you'll be earning my pay. By which I mean it will not be pleasurable. As with all engineering jobs, it will be both tedious and difficult, and you will likely be designing very small facets of designs, if not just pushing paperwork and looking over others' effort. Engineering is the mental equivalent of skilled physical labor, and as with physical labor, you will get tired of beating your brain against whatever problem you are presented with, regardless the industry. A sheet metal clip is a sheet metal clip whatever it goes in, as is a tool fixture, as is a stamping die. Except for what the drawings are titled, there's a whole lot more commonality between all engineering design disciplines than you can imagine.
Wise men have said to never pursue a hobby as a career; you too frequently end up hating it (and losing money in the process
). And the guys that do like that path, usually do because they run their own concern and find that task even more rewarding than the production of the product --obviously that is not for everybody.
TCB
Wise men have said to never pursue a hobby as a career; you too frequently end up hating it (and losing money in the process
). And the guys that do like that path, usually do because they run their own concern and find that task even more rewarding than the production of the product --obviously that is not for everybody.TCB
Comrade Mike
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Then do that dude. Like a lot of these guys have said, working in your hobby is a quick way to learn to hate it. You may also have some unrealistic expectations about what a meche would do in the industry. You're not going to be the next Browning. You'll be working on minute refinements at best.
I wanted to work in guns too at first. Now I just love guns and participate in my hobby because I can, not because I have to. I work in aerospace, which like an above poster said, can be like beating your head against a wall as with all engineering jobs. Take it from a fellow twenty something.
No offense but you don't sound like you have much technical job experience. Get out there and get a mechanical engineering internship in your field. See what the engineering working world is like and decide from there.
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