Equipment needed for 200 rounds/hr?

[sugarmaker]

Here's the challenge: I want to take 200 once fired mil 223 cases, dump them in the lyman auto-flow tumbler, and make them into loaded ammo within 1.5 hours after returning to empty the tumbler. The press caliber / powder charge / primers must be changed over in this period also (so quick setup is a must) while the tumbler is emptying. I've been loading single stage for 36 years.

The process steps will be: Remove cases from media, remove media from cases, Spray lube in plastic bag, Redding body size, lee collet neck size / deprime, decrimp, trim to length, inside deburr, outside deburr, prime, charge 25.3 gr varget, seat VLD w/forster chamber die, put in plastic ammo box.

I'm OK with equipment that requires INITIAL futzing around with (including fairly extensive modifications, I'm mechanical), but it MUST stay put for a very long time once I get it set up properly, and it has to work smoothly. Slop is a minus, but as long as +/- .001 tolerances on the ammo can be maintained, I'll overlook it. Money is a factor, but I'll spend money to get smooth and accurate. I'm not stuck on any one brand of anything.

Expected purchase items are press (turret or progressive), some kind of powder handling setup (I have a uniflow and 505), primer decrimper (have an rcbs setup on a rock chucker - not good), trimmer (have an RCBS connected to a drill - collet case holder is finicky with OAL), deburring setup.

Again, the goal is 200 raw military cases to precise match ammo 1.5 hours after going down to empty the tumbler, press caliber conversion is included. Under 1 hour is not better if it costs more money.

Ideas??

 

[m33p0n3]

I've been toying around with the idea of combining an RCBS Lube die and X-die full length resizer. This would allow for loading .223 on a 4 hole turret press. The X-die supposedly keeps the brass from lengthening during resizing, thus eliminating the need for trimming altogether.

1)First stage would lube and decap, then seat primer on up stroke
2)X-die would resize
3)Charge case with powder
4)Seat bullet

As for the crimped primer pockets, if the RCBS swaging setup isn't enough for you, the Dillon Super Swage is probably a good step up. It's expensive, but swaging the primer pockets is simple and repeatable.

 

[AK_Maine_iac]

I may be from the old school. The school of old and slow. So just remember speed will not over ride SAFETY.

 

[sugarmaker]

@AK - I'm hoping that with the right equipment, I can do safe and alot faster than I do now. Poor quality reloads have never interested me - loaded XM193 costs less than my match reloads, and zero time is invested. Right now it's a 5 hour task to do what I'm listing, so it doesn't get done. If I need to weigh powder by hand or with an electronic measure to get +/- .1 gr with varget, that's OK as long as the whole process is under 1.5 hours. I'm hoping for someone with some experience with some "newer" processes (my process and equipment is vintage mid-70's) will come along and tell me I'm not crazy.

 

[jfdavis58]

Depending on your idea of precise, I would guess most makers high end progressives can be made to do what you ask. You would need to supplement the press with power driven high accuracy/high consistency case prep equipment. The whole set-up on the bench would also need to be ergonomically conducive to speed without sacrificing accuracy. You are talking several manufacturers, extensive futzing around with third-part improvements, many dollars and some individual practice to make your round count goal. Google for books by Brennan and or Zediker for the types of specifics you desire.

 

[loadedround]

I would reccomend the Dillon 550B for your 30-06 loading. Just do all your case prepping and lubing before starting loading and tumble your finished rounds for 10-15 minutes in corn cob media to remove the lube. (I know I'll get a ration of S--- for tumbling loaded ammo, but have been loading this way for over 25 yrars with my 550B w/o a problem). I have loaded thousands of 30-06 on my Dillon 550B, and currently load both 223 and 308's and can reasonably load 250 rounds per hour taking my time to do things correctly.

 

[RandyP]

As you have doubtless learmed in your 36 years of single stage reloading, Fast-Affordable-Match grade..... choose one - lol

I gotta ask, what's the hurry? With your skill level you may well be able to get that needed speed with a simple Lee Classic turret? That and a good case prep powered station.

 

[sugarmaker]

How about this:

I'm kind of thinking of an auto index turret (Lee classic?) or a progressive (one that sets up quickly and holds its setup well). Cases get sized / deprimed, then come off. Next:

Gracey trimmer
Dillon primer decrimp

Lets say it takes 20 min to size / deprime and 30 min. to trim / decrimp 200 cases (with my 13 year old running the decrimper with the rubber band automatic mod someone shows)

So 40 min remains for prime, powder, and seat on 200 rounds. Sound reasonable so far?

 

[Walkalong]

1.) Quit worrying about the time involved.

2.) Get a Lee turret press (or a Dillon, or RCBS, or Hornady progressive), start slow, learn to reload well and safely, and then later on work on a bit more speed.

I reload leisurely on an LNL and could do 200 rounds in 1 1/2 hours easily. I re-size and then hand prime in advance, but if I add that in, 200 rounds in 1/2 hours is still easy enough, while leisurely and carefully reloading.

 

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Sugarmaker,

With your reloading experience, you can easily do 200 rounds an hour on a Lee Classic Turret (The cast iron one is the Lee turret you want.). You can eliminate the trimming step for the most part by using the RCBS X-die M33P0N3 suggested. You'll have to trim a batch of cases once, then you'd be done.

Additionally, you'll be comfortable with the rate you're reloading. You'll have enough speed, while going just slow enough to closely monitor your quality. One round gets loaded at a time, but the dies rotate, moving things along quickly. To fully realize the speed, you'll need to get the safety prime and the Pro Auto Disk powder measures and use a spherical powder that flows well through that powder measure. But in .223/5.56, that's not hard to find suitable spherical powders at all.

BTW, I've owned or own the following presses:

Dillon 550B
Hornady LnL
RCBS Rock Chucker
Lee Classic Cast single stage
Lee Classic Turret (the cast model, fully decked out)

Of the "faster" units I've listed, the Lee Classic Turret offers the most bang for your buck. Unless you're wanting to load 500-600 rounds per hour, the progressives are simply overkill.

I hope this helps,

Dave

 

[dbarnhart]

Some comments:

I've not had good luck with Varget into .223 cases via either the Hornady or RCBS powder measure. too much bridging. In fact, if I dump the powder out of a Varget-charged .223 case, I almost always need to shake the case to get ll the powder out. I've switched back to Win748 for 223 for this reason.

With that one caveat, I believe that if I added the Giraud trimmer I could easily do 200 per hour:

Phase I on the press:
- RCBS Lube die (also decaps)
- Sizer

Phase II off the press:
- Swage using Dillon 600
- Trim/deburr using Giraud

Phase II on the press:
- Prime
- Charge
- Seat
- Crimp

For me however:
- Swaging needs to be done once for the life of the case
- Trim/deburr doesn't need to be done every time.
- 20 minutes in the polisher at Phase II removes the lube.

I'm also curious why only 200 at a time. If 200 takes 2 hours, a thousand will not take 10 hours.

 

[EddieNFL]

I'm hoping that with the right equipment, I can do safe and alot faster than I do now.

You can.

 

[rehorne]

Dillon 1050 will do every thing you want to do. We have 2 setup one for 223 and one for 308. Set it up and start pulling the lever and you are off and running. Only thing it dosen't do is polish the cases!! LOL

 

[redbullitt]

I just got a hornady progressive yesterday. Took me about 3 hours to set it up and get it mounted up, loading, and timed right. I dont have any complaints yet; it runs great so far.

Just did 400 5.56 rounds in just about 1/8 the time it took on the rock chucker. I used Tac, so it metered very consistently. Gonna hopefully shoot some of them tomorrow and see how they run. Did a killing on 380 and 9mm as well... No way I will be loading those on the single stage any more.

I am going to stick to the rockchucker for high precision loading, but for anything else I would say the progressive is tough to beat. Hornady is doing a free 500 round rebate on it. Gotta send that in tomorrow lol.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

A Lee Classic Turret Press using a double disk setup on a Pro Auto-Disk powder measure and priming on press with the Safety-Primer will easily do 200 rounds of .223 safely under 1.5 hours.

 

[BADUNAME37]

Hmmmm. 1.5 hours from dirty brass, tumbled and all safely-reloaded?

I say it won't happen, especially if the brass is really cruddy. More than likely, the tumbling alone will be the longest part of the operation, unless you use something that may weaken the brass to accelerate the cleaning process.

Just getting everything set up to work smoothly would most likely take any extra time you may have saved on cleaning.

I used to crank out 600 pistol rounds per hour (one round every six seconds).

However, to achieve that, all components were ready to be reloaded (brass was thoroughly-cleaned with primer pockets cleaned and chamfered as necessary, case lengths trimmed and the mouths chamfered).

I would estimate that, getting everything ready for the non-stop 600-round loadings would take me several hours, by the time all brass was cleaned like new, primer pockets cleaned, any burrs or stamped metal pieces removed from the flash holes, powder measure set up and confirmed to be throwing the exact charge, give or take several granules of powder, etc.

In my opinion, any reloading time shorter than that (more than likely) can be done at the expense of quality, uniform cartridges. And, since I enjoy reloading QUALITY cartridges, having to perform these steps before even beginning to pull the press handle is the only way I would proceed!

Can it be done?
Perhaps.
However, not with my equipment nor with me doing the reloading!

V V V V V V V V V V V As Usual V V V V V V V V V

 

[ArchAngelCD]

He's asking about dirty brass??? I read the OP incorrectly. I read it as 1.5 hours from the tumbler. If he's talking about dirty brass I take back everything I said in my other post. Dirty brass alone causes all kinds of problems when reloading.

 

[Jeff H]

A Lee Classic Turret Press using a double disk setup on a Pro Auto-Disk powder measure and priming on press with the Safety-Primer will easily do 200 rounds of .223 safely under 1.5 hours.

If the cases are already sized and prepped, you could do the loading of 200 cases in under an hour on the LCT easily.

 

[Quoheleth]

What the OP said was:

I want to take 200 once fired mil 223 cases, dump them in the lyman auto-flow tumbler, and make them into loaded ammo within 1.5 hours after returning to empty the tumbler.

(emphasis mine)

From the time he unplugs & empties his tumbler, he wants to be able to crank out 200 rounds in 90 minutes. Assuming he runs some kind of media in the tumbler, that should mean he will have clean brass when he commences reloading operations.

Q

 

[ArchAngelCD]

OK, then I didn't read the OP incorrectly...

 

[GLOOB]

It still won't happen unless you have a really fast trimmer. Perhaps a Girouard. Or a Possum Hollow power trimmer, plus a power chamfer tool.

Once sized, trimmed and chamfered, you can probably load close to 200 rounds an hour on a single stage press.

 

[evan price]

Depends on the brass. Was this bulk brass not shot in your rifle or is it going in a semiauto- if so, need full length resize, and check length. Military brass with crimped primers, need to swage or cut the crimp out. There's prep steps to do to make safe reloads and it is not going to be good to cut your safe prep time to make some sort of speedy reloading.

If you start with brass, already trimmed and swaged, you should be able to get it done in an hour.

 

[showmebob]

I guess I'm just slow. It would take me more than 1.5 hours just to prep the brass. No, I don't have power case prep equipment.
The loading part could easily be done in less than an hour on my LNL AP.

 

[dbarnhart]

>>It would take me more than 1.5 hours just to prep the brass. No, I don't have power case prep equipment.<<

Sunday I swaged 1500 rounds of 223 brass on the Dillon Super Swage 600 in about 2 hours, and I wasn't even pushing it. So the swaging part will not take much time, and needs to be done only once for each case.

The Giraud trimmer is the fastest solution for trimming and deburring, but I don't have one. Using my Wilson trimmer attached to my Makita drill, I'd say 20 minutes to trim and debur 200 cases, but this doesn't need to be done every time.

So that leaves approximately 1 hour to prime and stuff 200 rounds of 223. PIece of cake on my Hornady LnL-AP.

I still come back to the same question: Why only 200 rounds at a time?

 

[BADUNAME37]

Anything is possible -- but most likely at the expense of ammo that is in some way not uniform or is in some way inferior. Why must everything be timed in such a manner so as to have everything completed by such-and-such a time limit?

When I reload, I do it for the pleasure I get from reloading consistent ammo. I do not do it to see how fast I can crank out any number of rounds in any given amount of time. Doing so would be akin to saying we are going to drive as fast as we can, to get on vacation 3,000 miles away, so we can spend one hour on vacation then drive 3,000 miles back -- as fast as we can to get home, all within six days as, on the seventh day we absolutely need to be in work, punching in our time cards at 6 am.

I refuse to put such limitations on myself and I absolutely refuse to push any stage of reloading for the purpose of getting things done more quickly and in order to do that, having to cut some corners.

If the purpose is to see how much ammo one can load in any given amount of time then perhaps reloading is not for that particular person.