Estate sale .577 Snider

[Steve499]

I bought a .577 Snider at the estate sale of a good friend of mine. I know relatively little about Sniders but had always thought them to be either military conversions of muzzle loading Enfields or later new manufacture of the Snider system in military pattern rifles.

This one isn't a military rifle, nor does it appear to be a conversion of one. It seems to be a civilian sporter made with a Snider breech. The lock plate is inscribed J.H. CRANE and the barrel is stamped J.H.CRANE. 3. ROYAL EXCHANGE, LONDON. It has a 24 inch, 5 groove barrel equipped with 3 leaf express sights. The stock is attached at the rear with a screw through the barrel tang and at the front by a barrel key/wedge. The stock has a repaired break at the small of the stock and the trigger guard has a break at the very rear through the rearmost of it's screw holes. I can repair both of those with a minimum of modification to original features but haven't decided yet whether to do so or not.

This rifle has a bore which appears to be only minimally pitted with quite a bit of shine remaining and should make a viable shooter if I choose to go that route.

If anyone has any input about this rifle, I'd sure like to learn more about it. Maybe the woods are full of civilian pattern Sniders but I hadn't even heard about them. I knew my friend had a Snider but hadn't ever actually looked at it, I just assumed he had one of the military ones. I appreciate any and all comments and thanks in advance.

 

[Misfire99]

I did a little research on the web and I thinkyou have a winner. It seems that J.H. Crane is a London firearms dealer. I found an auction that had a Colt revolver in a J. H. Crane made box. I took this to mean that the colt was sold out of Crane's gun shop in London. Here is the link:
http://julia.hanovercomputer.com/firearms/oct03/catalog/atwoday.htm

It is item number 650 and sold for $5462.62.

I also found an Australian Arms Auction in Melbourne that sold a Crane revolver for $3800 lot number 94. Here is the link:
http://www.armscollectorsguild.com/auction/auction_may07.htm

Here is a link for an auction in the UK that had a 12 bore pin fire shot gun from J. H. Crane:
http://www.lawrences.co.uk/Catalogues/fa060406/page28.htm

Here is a link in Kent that has a J. H. Crane 12 bore under lever shotgun:
http://www.pantilesguns.co.uk/hammerguns.htm


I didn't find anything about a Snider sold by him but it sure looks possible. I suspect that your rifle is worth a few thousand dollars if you wanted to sell it. I think you did real good on this buy.

If it was my gun I would want to hear it go boom at lest once. Tickle the dragon.

 

[trueblue1776]

Wow, that is one sleek rifle! Sweet find, hope you didn't have to break the bank for it.

 

[Steve499]

Actually, I only paid $150.00 for it. The broken stock looks pretty bad. Most everyone there was interested in all the modern firearms for sale. I had one guy bidding half-heartedly against me or I'd have gotten it for $90.00.

I had found a couple of those links, misfire 99, thanks for your research. There must not be too many around or one would be able to find at least some reference to them.

I also got a few Bell basic .577 cases so I'm probably going to eventually shoot it. I've not slugged the bore but a .575 minie drops right on through, so I get to buy another bullet mold.

Here's a couple more pictures there wasn't room for in the first post.

 

[Old Dragoon]

Steve499,
Hey you got a nice English rifle there. I love the lines of the stock and I bet she come to sight line effortlessly too. I love those English straight stocks and it has a shotgun butt too. I think you got a deal. Is it missing the fore end cap?

It isn't a Witworth ( I remember that you wanted one) but it may be better.

Cool Beans my friend.

 

[Steve499]

You may be right about missing a nose cap, Dragoon. I really can't tell for sure as there aren't any screw holes or anything like that on the tip of the fore end where a nose cap could have been attached. It sure is a peculiar design for a fore end if it was intended to be the way it is. I've been trying to find some reference to civilian Sniders, hoping to maybe even find a picture, but no luck so far.

You are also right (bet you tire of hearing that) about the handiness of this little rifle. It mounts like a featherweight 20 gauge. It's SO light that it might be 'interesting' to shoot 70 grains of BP behind a 400 something grain bullet out of it.

 

[Jim Watson]

Neat.
I saw a Snider sporting rifle - don't remember the name - at Thad Scott's several years ago. It was more than $150.

I don't know if the Brits did it, but the pewter foreend tips on Sharps were cast in place, depending on the shape of the inlet to retain them.

 

[Old Dragoon]

Steve499,
I appears that the fore end is missing. You can pour a new pewter one just like you would for a Hawken or other half stock. Dixie probably has the material and the instructions.

I'll be glad to tell you how to do it. It's been 35-40 years since I poured one. You use Aluminum foil to make a dam and form.

After you get the cracks fixed, this will top off the old girl.

That is one fine rifle.

 

[Steve499]

Dragoon, that's a great idea. I've done a little of that sort of thing so I probably could pull it off o.k. I am going to keep looking for a picture, maybe I'll find something to copy. The only thing about a nose cap is that I can't see any mechanism for securing one to the stock. As I said earlier, there aren't any screw holes. Depending on the inletting to hold one on like Jim said would sure work on a new casting but the way the stock is shaped now gives no place for an original one to have found any purchase. ( Maybe that's why it's missing, huh?) It would be simple to fix that if I pour a new one, though.

I slugged the bore yesterday. I don't believe I ever got an accurate measurement on the slug though. The 5 groove rifling puts a land opposite a groove and I kept getting different readings but it's pretty near .600. The rifling twist rate seems to be about 1:48. Now I'm reading up on how to make one of these things shoot. They don't have a reputation for accuracy. They seem to be real contrary and sensitive to the slightest change. Minute of target backing with one load, then into a 3 inch group if you drop 5 grains of powder, but even then, only if you smile while you're squeezing the trigger! I love it!

 

[Steve499]

Dragoon, for what it's worth, I talked to a guy from Australia on another forum who has one like mine. He says his has an ebony nose cap that appears to be glued to the stock.

 

[Jim Watson]

There used to be a guy who advertised that he had the V blocks, mikes, and math to figure the dimensions of a barrel with an odd number of grooves, but I have not seen anything from him in some time.

 

[Gordon]

Careful shooting any antique large bore you care about. 70 grains and a 400 grain bullet is a pretty stout charge! I wouldn't worry that much about the breech or barrel. But I sure would worry about the stock being wrecked out of the inletting by the recoil.
I had a Lancaster double barrel 16 gauge Howdah pistol I just 'had' to fire. It cost me about $1000 a shot! With a light load! The old fancy walnut split like kindling! I also had a Sharps 'business rifle' which lost a couple grand in value with a few shots. Just telling of MY experiences.

 

[Jack A. Sol]

Thats a real beaty there. you should be proud!!

 

[copilot001]

free adoption service for sniders and martinis

Thats a real nice little snider...try a .590 or .600 minie or round ball and start at about 55g of 2f black.
But get that stock fixed properly first then soak it in BLO to get some moisture back in it,It,s probebly dry as a bone and may really splinter when you fire it as it is.
The sniders are not known for their accuracy but this thing may surprise you,and they are a hoot to shoot.
You may want to check out British militaria forum,theres a bunch of real snider fanatics there.

 

[Steve499]

I found that forum, copilot001, and it's really a good one. All I can do is read there, though, because it won't let me register to post. It is an ezboard forum and I had already registered on another ezboard forum so it tells me my email address is already taken for registration purposes. Supposedly you can cancel your account and register on another board, so I'm trying to do that, have a request in to that effect, but so far, no luck.

I'll know a little better about the stock's moisture content when I get into it to replace the splintered areas. I had initially thought to make an entirely new stock for it. I could still do that and I believe with care I could replicate the original pretty well, but then it wouldn't be original. Even with obvious repair, I think having the original stock is better. I don't know how the thing's value would change with a repaired stock as opposed to leaving it as is, but as the pictures show, it's pretty bad right now! The whole value thing isn't a factor to me anyway since I will never sell it for sentimental reasons. The former owner was a true friend.

Gordon, that must truly have been crushing. I know there's a possibility for something like that to happen any time one decides to shoot an original. I just can't help myself sometimes. You know, you feel like writing on a truck stop mirror in lipstick, "Stop me before I kill again." I don't plan on loading it heavily at any rate. (I had a similar expense ratio to your howdah with my first wife!)

As you can see from the pictures, any change would be an improvement. I plan on removing the damaged area at the comb generally along the line I have marked with thread, gluing a block in place and working it back down. Then I'll do the same thing to the front of the break beneath the trigger guard. (which needs work itself) There may be very little of the original wrist remaining sandwiched between the new wood when I finish and I'm thinking about having a piece of 5/16 all thread glued in up the center of the wrist, too. I'm retired, have a nice heated shop and winter's coming.

 

[Old Dragoon]

Steve499,
by the time you have the wrist fixed you'll be an ace at woodworking and then you can find a nice piece of ebony and make a new forend cap. maybe you friend with the snider will send you pictures of his fore end cap.

I once brought back an transition Caplock 10 gauge Double. the type with large hammers that are bent to fall on top of the bbls. it had been shattered in the wrist area. I cut out a section much like you have marked off down to almost the centerline of the stock. did that side first, then did the same to the other side. There may have been 1'16th inch of original stock left when I was done, but it was really a strong fix. I used the powdered glue made for boat building, that you mix with water and clamped it tight and set it up for a week or so. then contoured the right side, then cut the left and repeated the process. When I recut the checkering it covered all of the repair, course the checkering went a bit further than originally cut, but the fix was hidden. I took time to find just the right walnut to repair it with too.
............Golly that was over 35 years ago.......time flies.