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EUGunBan: Push for 2A in the Czech Republic

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Snejdarek, Dec 16, 2016.

?

Between Czech and Swiss model, which one do you consider better?

  1. Switzerland: generally easier access to firearms, but forget concealed carry

  2. Czech Republic: higher innitial hurdle - must gain license first, but shall issue concealed carry

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  1. Ignition Override

    Ignition Override Member

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    I'm confused.
    Can anybody summarize what this would allow in a semi-auto rifle....a max. magazine capacity of 11 rounds?

    Will detachable magazines still be legal, in general, if already legal in a specific country?

    And people in countries (like the Czech Republic) who have a handgun carry permit would still be allowed to have it, unless some countries pass stricter regulations?
     
  2. Snejdarek

    Snejdarek Member

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    UPDATE

    Yesterday, 8 months after elections, a new minority government was formed. They will now have 30 days to gain confidence vote from the Parliament's Chamber of Deputies (similar to US Congress).

    The Government's official program proclamation states that they will "continue to support the right for self defense and the right to be armed. The Government shall pass legislation that will minimize the negative effects of the EU Firearms Directive".

    It seems that the constitutional amendment will be back for vote after Autumn Senate elections.
     
  3. Snejdarek

    Snejdarek Member

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    You have right to be confused. The Directive is confusing. To dumb it down, it states that sale of standard capacity magazines should be allowed only to those who have permit for corresponing gun, i.e. a firearm that is in A category due to use of standard capacity magazines.

    It further states that if someone has B cat firearm (semi-auto) and is found in possession of prohibited magazine without having permit for A cat prohibited firearm, he shall lose permit for the B cat firearm.

    Since it is up to each country how to get it done they go after the mags in various ways. Some may enact a confiscation/surrender scheme, some may choose a different route.

    Czech way is not clear right now - or to be more precise, Czech implementation seems to be at standstill until the Court of Justice of EU decides on the Czech action to annul the Directive.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2018
  4. Snejdarek

    Snejdarek Member

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    Our concealed carry permits are not actually a "handgun permits". I can CC hot any gun I own, be it SBR or MSR as long as I can conceal it.

    Because most countries don't allow CC and Brussels folks are unaware that it exists, the EU legislation does not deal with CC at all. Finally, CC permit is only valid in my country, not in any other EU country, so EU does not really have anything to say.
     
  5. Ignition Override

    Ignition Override Member

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    Thanks for the explanations, and also excellent news about no change for the Concealed Carry Permit.

    What is very cool is to carry in the country where they manufacture my CZ PO1 and PCR!
    And the Home of the superb VZ 58. Those can even be bought in Estonia.

    Very lucky situation for Czechs, maybe also for the Slovaks (?).
     
  6. Snejdarek

    Snejdarek Member

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    Slovaks have permissive may issue concealed carry which seems a bit far fetched. They need to be cleared by a psychiatrist in all the cases (Czechs only get clearance from general practitioner which is mostly formality, only if you have mental history he sends you for psych eval). Their cops talk to neighbors/employer to assess your character.

    Most importantly though the "permissivnes" may change due to policy and not law amendment. Which is what happened in Austria where they went from permissive to restrictive from one day to another.

    Slovak self loading rifle rules are also much tougher. Not sure how much red tape they need to go through to get a semi-auto vz.58.
     
  7. Snejdarek

    Snejdarek Member

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    UPDATE

    The proposal for implementation that the government sent to the Parliament in February will likely be decked. It has now been pushed several times out of the Parliament's schedule, so it has not even entered first reading. There seems to be quite a consensus to wait for the decision of the European Court of Justice on the Czech action for annulment.

    Meanwhile it seems more and more probable that the Constitutional Amendment will be reintroduced after the autumn Senate elections.

    For context, here is a photograph of the proposal's rapporteur who is also the head of the Chamber of Deputies' Committee for Security & Defense - and a vice-chair of opposition ODS party that pledged to refuse implementation even in case of EU penalty payments.
    IMG_2713-1024x685.jpg
    And yes, she also owns an AR 15.
     
  8. Snejdarek

    Snejdarek Member

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    UPDATE

    Yesterday, Ministry of Interior introduced a draft of Governmental Executive Order that is supposed to implement part of the EU Gun Ban dealing with firearm conversions.

    Firearm conversions were a popular way mainly for people who are into reenactment to have a real firearm coverted into firing blanks only. Other applications include conversions to fire pepper spray or flobert cartridges or deactivation - none of these require gun license or any additional permits as of now.

    Sadly Slovakia had extremely poor conversion/deactivation standards and their "deactivated" firearms became one of main sources of illegal guns used by criminals in Europe. This was used as scapegoat by the European Commission to justify the EU Gun Ban after a number of terror attacks committed mostly with illegal firearms smuggled in from Balcans, but in case of Hypercacher Paris attack reactivated guns from Slovakia were used.

    It seems that the Minister of Interior wants to be able to present some kind of development to the EU Commission now that the implementation process in the parliament has hit a stone wall.

    The proposed Executive Order would mean that deactivated / converted firearms would be still considered as firearms, i.e. their owner would need firearms license - in case of firearms newly entered into market.

    This would mean higher requirements for people who want to enter reenactment, possibly discouraging many in future from joining.

    On the other hand many who simply "want to play" would probably get gun licenses... and once they have a license why not buy a real deal firearm instead of only a punny blank firing conversion?

    Hence, paradoxically, this might actually lead to significant rise in firearm ownership over the next few years as reenactors will be forced to get licenses.

    Which is something we are already seeing now with many new people getting licenses simply because they have a feeling this might be their last chance (mainstream media have been painting EU Gun Ban as a doomsday for civilian gun ownership which forced many to get licenses).
     
  9. Ignition Override

    Ignition Override Member

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    Mr. Snejdarek: is that very pretty lady, in general, an anti-gun troublemaker who is a serious threat?

    Or is she not trying to keep her job, by passing legislation which makes ownership of the same rifles and carry guns just a Little Bit more difficult?
     
  10. Snejdarek

    Snejdarek Member

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    This may be misunderstanding stemming from the fact that she is rapporteur. The process goes like this: Government proposes an enactment, it goes to the Chamber of Deputies, and a Committee that oversees the passage of laws through the Chamber appoints a rapporteur, typically one from a Committee that deals with the given issue.

    In this case they chose "that very pretty lady" who is actually one of the most pro-gun members of the chamber (and also member of an opposition party that does not support current government coalition). And as it follows, she is very effective in throwing monkey wrenches into the process, which has helped in having it stopped so far.

    Also, she will be the one who has all the Parliament's resources at hand when it comes to having analyses etc. done on the proposal, and she will be the one writing final recommendation to the chamber. Even though her party has only some 10% of the seats, this may also help swaying some votes in case the Government decides to try push the law through (which it seems they won't).
     
  11. Snejdarek

    Snejdarek Member

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    UPDATE

    After several months of delays, the proposal for implementation of the EU Gun Ban is now scheduled for debate in the Chamber of Deputies.
     
  12. Snejdarek

    Snejdarek Member

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    UPDATE

    According to the Speaker of the Chamber of Deputies, there is consensus to have a vote on putting the implementation of the EU Gun Ban aside in the Chamber. They decided to move it forward mainly to allow debate on the proposal.

    At the same time they plan to reopen adding the right to be armed into the Constitution after the autumn 2018 Senate elections.
     
    wyk likes this.
  13. Johnm1

    Johnm1 Member

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    Snejdarek,

    I have followed this thread since the beginning. In the 200+ posts I don’t remember reading a thank you for your diligence and follow up. So, thank you.

    It is fascinating to me, living in the United States, to see how similar things are in places other than the United States. The common saying here is that there are two things you do not want to see being made. The law and sausages. I suspect that is true in all places where compromises have to be made.
     
    Snejdarek likes this.
  14. Blackstone

    Blackstone Member

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    Glad to see it's not doom and gloom everywhere in Europe
     
  15. wyk

    wyk Member

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    A very big Thank You to Snejdarek for always keeping us updated!
     
  16. Snejdarek

    Snejdarek Member

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    Turns out that speaker of the house is also gun owner. Apart from several other guns, he owns a tricked out vz.58. He was seen in a gun shop showing interest in buying CZ 805.

    FAB-DFS-Pic-2.jpg
    Picture just for illustration.

    In general population, only 3% of Czechs are gun owners (80% of those with CC license). But according to some estimates, between 1/4 and 1/3 members of parliament have firearms.
     
    Armybrat likes this.
  17. Snejdarek

    Snejdarek Member

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    UPDATE

    Speaker of the Chamber of the Deputies just announced that the implementation will be stalled for now.

    40920982_2280991901912426_2921212772194713600_n.jpg
    Speaker on the right, on the left a guy who started petition against the EU Gun Ban several years ago. Apparently he has now started a new Gun NGO.
     
  18. Snejdarek

    Snejdarek Member

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    UPDATE

    At the beginning of today's meeting, the Chamber of Deputies voted to withdraw the implementation proposal (EU Gun Ban) from the program. So we are back to the "stalled" limbo.

    Nothing else to add than...

    Meanwhile, the second chamber of Swiss Parliament will be voting on their implementation of the EU Gun Ban in the following days. I must admit that I could not imagine a world in which Swiss back down with tail between the legs and Czechs turn every stone looking for ways not to obey.
     
  19. Blackstone

    Blackstone Member

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    As a frequent visitor to Switzerland to shoot, this saddens me greatly. I joined ProTell a couple of years ago as a token gesture.
     
  20. Snejdarek

    Snejdarek Member

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    badkarmamib likes this.
  21. Snejdarek

    Snejdarek Member

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  22. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    You would think people would remember those days -- when everyone needed a gun.

    We remember it -- all the way back in 1775, when:

    "You remember the rest in books you've read
    How the British regulars fired and fled
    How the farmers gave them ball for ball
    From behind each fence and farmyard wall

    Chasing the redcoats down the lane
    Then crossing the fields to emerge again
    Under the trees at the bend of the road
    And only pausing to fire and load."
     
  23. Snejdarek

    Snejdarek Member

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    First round of Senate elections (1/3 of the Senate) will start tomorrow evening. Hopes are high as regards getting pro-gun candidates in and restarting the change of constitution process.

    Here is one former presidential and current Senate candidate:

    43083398_2317825888229027_5612248832428474368_n.jpg
    [​IMG]

    The table reads:

    BASED ON THE EU DIRECTIVE THAT LIMITS MAGAZINE CAPACITE, PLEASE DO NOT EXPECT A WARNING SHOT

    nasivka--boj-proti-regulaci-zbrani-eu_12765.jpg
    The T-shirt reads:

    DON'T TOUCH MY GUN

    BAN RADICALISM, NOT GUNS. FIREARMS ARE GUILTY OF NOTHING
     
  24. Blackstone

    Blackstone Member

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    Hahaha, very good :thumbup:
     
  25. Blackstone

    Blackstone Member

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    Hope you don't mind me putting in some information on what's happening in Switzerland.

    Today, the campaign against the adoption of the EU Weapons Directive (ie. the EU gun ban) in Switzerland began gathering signatures to trigger a referendum to reject the law. In Switzerland's semi-direct democracy system, any Swiss citizen who gathers 50,000 signatures within 100 days, can trigger a referendum to contest a new or revised law.
    See: https://www.finger-weg-vom-schweizer-waffenrecht.ch/ and https://eu-diktat-nein.ch/referendum/

    Unfortunately, only those with Swiss voting rights can submit such a signature, which makes sense.
     
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