Even the Soviet Union made AKs for civillian hunters (hello, Zumbo et al)

[Creeping Incrementalism]

While RKBA at its core doesn't have anything to do with hunting, the fact that certain firearms are "never used for hunting" is often used as a reason why they should be banned. The AK seems to be the rifle most often brought up in this context.

I've never seen this mentioned anywhere else, so I thought I'd bring it up with a thread here. In the 70s, even the communist Soviet Union provided AKs specifically for hunters. The KSU (bottom rifle) has a folding stock, and the barrel sure looks shorter than 16 inches to me. I found the following in Legends and Reality of the AK, co-authored by Val Shilin, who worked with Kalashnikov at the Izmash arsenal.

From Page 53 of the book...

Izhmash is a very diverse manufacturing company, producing not only military small arms, but civilian firearms as well. In the days of the Soviet Union, official hunters could make requests for development of new small arms in a process similar to that of the military. One such firearm is the “Tiger Carbine”, a civilian version of the SVD Dragunov. Less well known, though, is the Karabin Skladnoy (Ukorochennyi—Short Folding Carbine) that was developed at the request of professional hunters in Kazakhstan. The hunters had just concluded a contract with the government of Kazakhstan to kill and export the hides of a large number of Saiga antelope, an animal that is extremely abundant in Kazakhstan. Of course, the wholesale slaughter of antelope in the West would because a cause celebre for the animal rights activists, but not in the Soviet Union of the 1970s. At any rate, the hunters wanted a number of reliable semiautomatic 7.62x39mm carbines with high-capacity magazines. Because many of the hunters spent lengthy amounts of time out in the wild, some carbines were made up with folding stocks for convenient carry in the field. This version was designated the KSU.

Izhmash provided a small number of both versions of the semiautomatic carbines and then went back to exclusive manufacture of select-fire weapons. From the accompanying photos, it is clear that the KS and KSU are essentially semiautomatic-only versions of the AKM. As an aside, the reader will note that the 7.62x39mm cartridge, unlike the 5.56x45mm and 5.45x39mm cartridges, is an excellent deer and antelope round. Its terminal ballistics are on a par with the old reliable U.S. .30-30 cartridge, which has probably claimed more deer on the North American continent than all other calibers combined.

And below are the pics I scanned from Page 54:

 

[MrTuffPaws]

What do you think the Saiga is? It's an AK with a hunter stock. I own one. Fun gun.

 

[poor_richard]

Yeah they are!

I've got one in .308 and it's a blast. Siaga's are sweet!

 

[TallPine]

I have hunted with my semi-auto AK (Saiga), mostly on cold snowy days when a scope would be practically useless and I was wearing heavy gloves. That's the sort of conditions the AK was designed for.

Haven't shot a deer with it yet, but it has come in handy on stray dogs.

 

[k_dawg]

I own several Siaga's, made in the Izshmash factory

The Saiga S-12 is a semi-automatic shotgun based on the AK action

 

[Fosbery]

I've seen a few SAIGA 12s in the UK. I can't figure out why you'd want one over, say a Benelli, Mossberg or Remington, but they do turn some heads

 

[Creeping Incrementalism]

There is an important distinction between Saigas, and the AKs I originally posted--the pistol grip. A pistol grip is one of the characteristics frequently mentioned in "assault weapon" legislation. The Saigas mentioned here have traditional stocks.

The Saiga rifles (but not shotgun) shown are legal even in CA, as long as it hasn't been mentioned specifically by name. But the AKs would be banned under the SB23 "AW" law, as they have pistol grips.

The Soviet Union made hunting rifles for civillians with all the "evil" features. That's the point I'm trying to make.

 

[000Buck]

I think the problem is alot of hunters are snobs or try to be. Someone showing up to hunt with an AK would turn off alot of American hunters. Who knows why. Some people get bent out of shape when you hunt hogs with buck shot even. As long as you can humanely kill the animal with your choice, everyone else needs to the keep their opinions to themselves. Everybody has to have something to feel superior about, it is a shame Zumbos snobbery had to partially ruin his career.

If he would have followed the "if you dont have anything nice to say, dont say anything at all" tenet, he would be alot better off. People just need to keep their hateful opinions to themselves, I try, but am not always successful.

 

[MD_Willington]

I'm in the middle of a transaction for my "Proletariat Plinker" in .223...

Of course I plan on putting all the "Made in the USA" happy fun parts back into it...



Regarding gun snobs... Maybe they need to see the Saiga 100, a slick looking Saiga in .30-06

 

[Robert Hairless]

There is an important distinction between Saigas, and the AKs I originally posted--the pistol grip. A pistol grip is one of the characteristics frequently mentioned in "assault weapon" legislation. The Saigas mentioned here have traditional stocks.

Everybody knows that a pistol grip turns a sporting firearm into a lethal weapon. Firearms without pistol grips are harmless.

Seriously, though, you're trying to use reason and logic to address a purely political issue. If reason and logic mattered, the anti-gun people wouldn't be who they are.

Buy a Saiga 12, if you don't already own one, and have some fun with it before Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, or Carolyn McCarthy take it away from you. The Saiga 12 comes in a box marked to indicate that it's a sporting shotgun. Won't make any difference though.

 

[k_dawg]

Oh. The reason why Saiga will not sell you one with the "evil" features is they can not import them as per 922r [ 922o? ]. I am sure they [ Saiga's USA importer ] would LOVE to sell you one.

Many people purchase one, then convert it back to as originally designed. Then you have to play the "US Part Count" game.

 

[TallPine]

If you walk through the woods with a pistol grip AK, the deer will just fall down dead all around you without you ever firing a shot.

 

[Robert Hairless]

If you walk through the woods with a pistol grip AK, the deer will just fall down dead all around you without you ever firing a shot.

Funny! Or, to put it another way, "Oh deer!" (Yours is better but I thought I'd give it a try.)