Excessive Sig Parts Cost - Coiled Spring Pin $6.00? YIKES!

[Alllen Bundy]

Anyone that owns a Sig knows that replacement parts are very expensive. But the cost of some of those parts is abusive. Take for instance the coiled spring pin that Sig uses to hold the extractor in place on the P365 series. It is a nothing special coiled spring pin. But in the Sig plastic bag it can cost $6.00 each or more.

I wasn't sure what strength was necessary, so I bought a strongest coiled spring pins available from Grainger. I also decided to use the 420 alloy stainless steel coiled spring pin.

Spring Pin, Coiled, Stainless Steel, 420, 3/32 in Outside Dia., 1/2 in Fastener Length, Double Shear Strength 1,150 lb - PK 50 $7.51

That works out to 15.002 cents each. That 15 cents is REALLY going to break my budget!

Grainger also sells a steel version:

Spring Pin, Coiled, Steel, Spring Steel, Plain, 3/32 in Outside Dia., 1/2 in Fastener Length, Double Shear Strength 1,150 lb - PK 100 $10.19.

That works out to 10.19 cents each.

For someone that is not mechanically inclined and not capable of complete disassembly and reassembly of their firearm, a CLP is the only reasonable option for cleaning and lubricating some inaccessible areas of their firearm.

But there is no question that a separate cleaner and separate lubricant performs better. But that requires the complete disassembly, cleaning, relubrication, and reassembly. I will not use a CLP as I am quite capable of complete disassembly and reassembly of my P365X. Removing the coiled spring pin that holds the extractor in place, cleaning, relubing, and reassembly, is just part of my cleaning process.

I also need to remove the extractor to polish the leading edge of the extractor claw and to polish the trailing edge of the extractor claw. This polishing improves reliability.

It's generally advised that you always use a NEW coiled spring pin. If you mangle the coiled spring pin like Sig does I can understand why Sig recommends always using a new coiled spring pin!!!

The coiled spring pin on top came out of my P365. Sig mangled the spring pin so badly that it wasn't even driven all of the way inward as was intended by design.



The lower coiled spring pin is one that I installed in and then removed from my P365. Whose workmanship looks better to you?

I did not have the correct diameter pin punch. So I grabbed a #44 drill bit, used a diamond whetstone to grind the butt end of the drill bit flat, carefully deburred the edges at a 45° angle, and then stoned the cutting edge flat.

I used a lightweight soft faced hammer to strike the drill bit to drive the coiled spring pin outward. It really doesn't take much effort. Only LIGHT tapping is required. I laid the slide over a roll of duct tape so that there was room underneath for the coiled spring pin to fall out.

I used a lightweight soft faced hammer to drive the coiled spring pin inward to get it started and then used a 1/8" diameter pin punch to drive the coiled spring pin home. And by driving I mean LIGHT tapping.



The 1/16" diameter pin punch that is typically included in a pin punch set is too small IMHO. A 5/64" diameter pin punch would be more ideal, but is difficult to find. A 3/32" diameter pin punch is a lot easier to find and with some wet or dry sandpaper or a diamond hone you could easily reduce it's diameter from 0.0.9375" to about 0.086" while you were listening to a podcast.

Edit: You may not find a 5/64" diameter pin punch at Home Depot, but you can order them on Amazon and at other palces.

Ideally you should have a pin punch with a diameter of about 0.086" diameter to drive out the coiled spring pin. But when installing, to drive the coiled spring pin down to the correct level, a 1/8" diameter pin punch is recommended.

They do make special pin punches, with a small protrusion in the middle, to help keep the punch centered in the roll pin while driving the roll pin in place . But the hole in a coiled spring in is NOT centered and these special punches do not appear to be applicable for driving coiled spring pins.

I'm not sure if you can buy them, but you can drill a recess into the end of a pin punch so that it will hold the coil spring pin in place while you start driving the coiled spring pin into the hole in the slide. Then you finish driving the coiled spring pin in place with an 1/8" diameter pin punch.

Edit: I just saw on Amazon that you can buy what are called "Hollow End Starters" for starting roll pins and coiled spring pins. You can also find them at gun supply shops.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Glad you got it fixed.

I also use cut down drill bit shanks when a special punch is needed. You can usually buy a whole set of drill bits for the price of a single punch.

As far as the price of parts.....there is a small vacuum pump gasket on the 2.0/2.5L Cadillac ATS engine which retails for $108.
I kid you not.

 

[Howland937]

Cadillac

Is all you really had to say

+1 on drill bits for knocking pins out. I keep a bunch of worn out cheapies for that purpose.

Depending on size, I've had pretty good luck slipping small roll pins into tamper-proof torx sockets to get them started. Bigger ones are usually handled with either a bit driver or 1/4" extension. Just don't beat on your good tools.

Not sure saving 5 bucks and change would be worth my time trying to find a compatible part though.

 

[Otto]

Anyone that owns a Sig knows that replacement parts are very expensive. But the cost of some of those parts is abusive. Take for instance the coiled spring pin that Sig uses to hold the extractor in place on the P365 series. It is a nothing special coiled spring pin. But in the Sig plastic bag it can cost $6.00 each or more.

Most people buy the SIG extractor kit, it includes:

• Extractor
• Extractor Insert Pin
• Extractor Spring
• Extractor Spring guide

It cost $18 which includes a new extractor..that's very reasonable in my opinion.

 

[Alllen Bundy]

Most people buy the SIG extractor kit, it includes: Extractor, Extractor Insert Pin. Extractor Spring, Extractor Spring guide. It cost $18 which includes a new extractor..that's very reasonable in my opinion.

You can buy the extractor alone for 9.44 at MGW. You are paying the additional $9.04 for a tiny spring, a tiny plastic rod, and a 10 cent coiled spring pin.

I'm not about to buy an $18.48 extractor kit every time I need to remove and replace a 10 cent coiled spring pin.

 

[Nature Boy]

OP, you spent more than $6.00 in calories typing that post. Yikes!

 

[RA40]

Glad that you fixed that, good job! Centering punches in fractional and numeric may be useful for some of these types of roll pins.

The radiator drain cock o-ring from Toyota was quoted from $2.65-$8. A box of 100 NBR O-rings from Grainger is $6. The regular o-rings can be bought in lots of 100 for sub $4. One online dealer would ship the single $3.50 o-ring for $12.53. Wonder what a Ferrari o-ring costs?

 

[CNobbe]

I've never found Sig parts to be expensive. I ordered one of their main spring housing for a 1911 for $25, but it was made in India..

 

[Alllen Bundy]

I've never found Sig parts to be expensive. I ordered one of their main spring housing for a 1911 for $25, but it was made in India..

$50 for a pistol magazine isn't expensive?

 

[Alllen Bundy]

While I don't find it that difficult to get a coiled spring pin started into the hole, a roll pin starter punch seems handy. But reading the reviews of most of the starter punches that I've seen suggests that there are a lot of crappy roll pin starter punches out there that start deforming and getting sloppy after only a few uses.

This starter punch is made in the USA by an auto tool manufacturer. It looks like it might be a better quality tool. I'm going to buy it and I'll report back after I used it.
3/32"" PUNCH SL90310 - SCHLEY PRODUCTS, INC.
https://www.midstatetool.com/buy/product/sl90310-schley-products-inc/CLENC0ce9ecf3cad3a98b

 

[Alllen Bundy]

OP, you spent more than $6.00 in calories typing that post. Yikes!

What can I say? I've got 35 lbs to lose so that I can have that beach ready body this summer.

 

[tarosean]

$50 for a pistol magazine isn't expensive?

Ha try HK magazines.

I'd be worried about galvanic corrosion using a dissimilar metal as a cheap replacement.

 

[8Ball_99]

I don't typically completely strip my Firearms to clean them. I could, I've just never seen the need. Normally if I fully strip something, it's because a part is getting replaced. But I also don't even clean them after shooting them lol. I have a 365 and a 365xl. I do clean those often though since they are carry guns. My XL gets dirty just carrying it. It often gets cleaned and hasn't even had a round through it. I just field strip and do a quick wipe down.

The roll pin starter punches work pretty well. I have a set that I think we're from wheeler. I've probably had them 5 years and they still do what they are supposed to. They do make it easier to get them started and keep them straight. I also have a set of roll pin punches with little nipple on the end. They are OK, but I think just a regular punch the right diameter works better. You can get punches in any size. I have a pile of them that I've accumulated over the years. They are all random brands, but they work. I've cut a few of them down to fit in my arbor press and that makes things easier in some cases for gun stuff. Just hold the part on the press and pull down on the handle. Little easier then juggling the part, punch and hammer with just two hands. Plus instead of tapping it out, you just push it out in one stroke. Keeps from beating up the pins.

 

[Alllen Bundy]

I don't typically completely strip my Firearms to clean them.

After the initial break-in it's not a bad idea to completely disassemble everything, clean, inspect the parts, relube with a good synthetic, and then reassemble, provided that you are mechanically inclined. The most likely time for a failure is when a product is new and then again when it becomes much older. I don't yet have a tool to disassemble the recoil spring assembly, so I solvent cleaned it. After only about 200 rds of use it was seriously full of crud. Some of that was metal bits wearing off during the break-in. Racking feels smoother after I cleaned the recoil spring assembly.

Removing the extractor also allows you to inspect it for stress cracks while you are cleaning. Eventually the extractor is going to crack. I'd rather replace the extractor at the first sign of a stress crack than wait for it to break off at the worst possible moment.

I've actually measured the forces needed to chamber a round and friction definitely increases when the breech face is dirty. That increased friction can increase the chances that the slide does not go into battery. I polished the breech face in my P365X. When it is clean you cannot release the slide slowly enough to prevent it from going into battery. But when the breach face IS dirty, when you release the slide slowly it doesn't always go back into battery. Cleaner is better.

Using an arbor press is a great idea. I've thought about buying one for general use. This just gives me one more reason to buy one. But I still want portable punches that I can keep in my range bag.

 

[Mn Fats]

I've read the original post about 3 times now. What ever was the issue with the firearm in the first place? You wrote about half of a book about correcting nothing.

I wasn't sure what strength was necessary, so I bought a strongest coiled spring pins available from Grainger. I also decided to use the 420 alloy stainless steel coiled spring pin.

Why? Strength necessary for what?

 

[jct61765]

I've read the original post about 3 times now. What ever was the issue with the firearm in the first place? You wrote about half of a book about correcting nothing.

Why? Strength necessary for what?

There was nothing wrong with the gun it sounds like. He decided to take it completely apart to clean it. Then complain about the price of SIG Sauer parts. He had no idea how strong the spring should be, so he "bought the strongest."
There is no reason to break a gun down that far. They regularly pull guns off the line to test them. I believe they'll go 13,000 rounds on the p365 without failures. The p229 and p226, 20,000 rounds no failures. Op sounds like an armchair gun smith.
If you can't afford $6, maybe you should stick with highpoints, or Sccy.

 

[Alllen Bundy]

There was nothing wrong with the gun it sounds like.

If you bothered to look at the photos you will notice that Sig mangled the coiled spring pin so badly that it was not inserted completely. That damaged coiled spring pin needed to be removed and replaced.

The P365 needs finishing work brand new right out of the box. The extractor is so sharp that it shaves brass off of the shell case which contaminates the lubrication. This sharp extractor also results in extra friction that increases the chances of the slide not returning to battery, The extractor needs polishing underneath the extractor claw. Brand new right out of the box if you retract the slide slightly it does NOT return to battery. Numerous people have found this to be the case. The left adjacent side to the breech face is so rough that it grinds brass off of the shell case rim. This added friction also exacerbates the failure to return to battery problem. And finally, the rough breech face needs polishing. Polishing the breech face allows the rear of the shell case to slide over the breech face more easily as the round is being chambered. If you polish these three things it greatly reduces the chance of the slide not returning to battery. In fact, after polishing I cannot return the slide slowly enough to prevent it the slide from going into battery. But right out of the box there is so much friction that the slide must be moving quickly enough or the slide will NOT chamber a round completely and return to battery.

I have no idea what kind of lube Sig uses at the factory and they do not specify. I am not going to use an inferior lubricant such as a CLP. So I disassemble, clean, polish parts, lube with a proven high quality synthetic lube, and then reassemble. You can use an inferior lube if you want to, but I prefer to use the best available that will still lubricate in subzero Minnesota winters.

Finally, I consider it important to polish the leading edge of the extractor. This polishing allows me to directly chamber a round with almost no stress to the extractor. It reduces friction so much that I can push the slide forward, forcing the extractor over the shell case rim, using the force from just my arthritic little finger. I don't need to be concerned about bullet setback from accidental multiple chambering of a round from the magazine because I manually chamber the first round instead of chambering from a magazine.

So yes, there is legitimate reason to remove the extractor. If you want to operate a P365 in less than optimum condition, that is your business. But I prefer to remove every potential problem that I am able to. My P365 is more likely to operate reliably under adverse conditions than a P365 right out of the box.

Because of the finishing work that I have performed, my P365 racks far more easily over a magazine loaded to capacity than a new Sig. My trigger is very smooth and not at all gritty like it was when it was new. My P365 requires less force to chamber a round than new P365. And yes, I actually measured the difference in the force required to chamber a round.

I'll put just as much care and effort into my P365 as I would when assembling an engine.

The ability to inspect parts is sufficient reason to completely disassemble a firearm. I would rather take the time to find potential problems before they become actual problems.

If you can't afford $6, maybe you should stick with highpoints, or Sccy.

Why on earth would you want to pay $6.00 for a 10 cent part? I spend the money where it is more useful, such as on synthetic gun lube.

 

[danez71]

Why on earth would you want to pay $6.00 for a 10 cent part? I spend the money where it is more useful, such as on synthetic gun lube.

I like saving money.

How often do you plan on replacing it?

Which lube are you using?

 

[JDGray]

Drill bits are entirely too hard to be hammering on, buy a proper punch if you need to hammer on it. You can clean most any firearm with compressed air, very simple. I find Sig firearms to be very much overpriced, new and used, just need to search for deals. I stocked up on mags, when I found a retailer selling them for $29, and the last new sig I bought was a close out on the P220 Scorpion, paid $649 new, and they still made money!

 

[cfullgraf]

Why on earth would you want to pay $6.00 for a 10 cent part? I spend the money where it is more useful, such as on synthetic gun lube.

Let's see. I buy a box of 100 roll pins for $10. I use one, maybe two over the life of the firearm. So, I have $9.90 invested in roll pins sitting on the shelf waiting until I need a second one. That assumes I do not lose the box of roll pins in the interim.

Personally, I'll buy a box of hardware even when I only need a few if it is a size I use frequently. But with hardware I have limited use for, I buy just what I need regardless of cost. It saves money and reduces waste in the long run.

 

[tarosean]

Let's see. I buy a box of 100 roll pins for $10. I use one, maybe two over the life of the firearm. So, I have $9.90 invested in roll pins sitting on the shelf waiting until I need a second one. That assumes I do not lose the box of roll pins in the interim.

Pretty much... I am not buying 100 count of anything to use one or two. Storage space for the rest of my life is probably far more valuable.than the cost of a freakin Happy Meal.

 

[JCJIM]

If you bothered to look at the photos you will notice that Sig mangled the coiled spring pin so badly that it was not inserted completely. That damaged coiled spring pin needed to be removed and replaced.


I have no idea what kind of lube Sig uses at the factory and they do not specify. I am not going to use an inferior lubricant such as a CLP. So I disassemble, clean, polish parts, lube with a proven high quality synthetic lube, and then reassemble. You can use an inferior lube if you want to, but I prefer to use the best available that will still lubricate in subzero Minnesota winters.
.

In my last recent purchase a Sig P320, Sig Included a pack of Lucas Oil. so my bet thats the lube Sig uses

 

[JCJIM]

Sig represents just about the worse prices for it's parts as any gun Mfg. I've ever seen. Instead of using a screw that you can find easily Sig uses a screw thread that's almost impossible to find so you have to order a screw from Sig that cost $8 ea.plus ship., a screw thats just as good that you can find costs about .40 ea. talk about a rip off.
Another issue Sig has is that Sig sold their P320 and P365, that happen to be their runaway success, as a modular gun that you could get the parts and create anything you want through Exchange kits, grip modules, FCU's, slides etc.etc. Since these models have been so successful Sig has brought custom models, These customs use the 3.9" and some full size ..slide and barrels, now Sig has dried up these parts so if you want them you'll need to buy their custom guns that are overpriced exchange kits look to be discontinued why they are ridicules prices. All sorts of parts have dried up on the internet when they are available at the Sig site at list prices.
Now I'm a Sig guy with 4 Sig P320's now 3 of which I have customized, the forth is in the works. so I'm not going anywhere else. I LOVE THE GUNS but not very happy for the company.

 

[clutch]

I suspect Sig puts a dollar value on having someone to process and pick your part. It is called overhead so maybe they are charging you .10 cents for the part plus 5.90 overhead.

I'm still waiting to use one of the roll pins that the striker will break in my XDM, I bought a bag of them cheap from McMaster so I'd be ready when I happened. Where did I put that bag.

 

[sigarms228]

I don't find SIG parts any more expensive than other makes of pistols I own. They sell the "parts kit" that is a heck of a deal with all the maintenance pats that they come with. I think I spent $20 - $25 for ones for my P226 and P228.

Other than maybe Wolff springs I sure as heck won't use any springs other than SIG ones in my SIG pistols. Plenty of ways to make and save money but for me scrimping on critical firearm parts is not one of them.