Experts please explain this.

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Warren

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When shooting my Glock 26 with WWB 115 FMJ at 21 feet the accuracy was not all that good. Now I am somewhat new to shooting so I thought that I was the problem.

I was hitting the black well enough but hitting the 10 ring seemed to be a random event.


Then still at 21 feet I decided to put 147 JHPs, also WWB, in the gun and I started punching the 10 ring a Hell of a lot more. I mean about half the shots....:cool:


So what was up with that?


Did I suddenly become a better shooter or was the ammo the cause?


Also the gun shop guys say that the G26 can eat 147s with no modifications such as a new spring or whatever. Is this true?

Though they have made a point of saying that regardless of what weight of ammo I shoot that a recoil buffer will be a great aid in handling recoil and will help lessen the wear and tear on the gun. So do any of you use recoil buffers and if so, does it help?


Still learnin',

H2L
 
Different bullet weights tend to hit at different heights on the target.

Are you shooting off a rest of standing? Shooting off a rest will take one variable of testing accuracy out.

You said the "accuracy" of the 115 weight wasn't good, how was the "grouping"? Which is the true sign of accuracy. If all the shots are clustered in a group, the accuracy is good.

The gun was made to eat all weights of 9mm, and probably could handle +P loads without much of a problem. I don't have a recoil buffer in my G26 as I don't find the recoil all that strong. It functions fine as is and isn't being beat up. Now... if the recoil spring was weak and needed to be replaced, then you should be sure to get a new spring since then, the gun could beat itself up since the spring isn't absorbing as much of the slide recoil as it should. Best way to see if the spring needs to be replaced, from what I have read on here, is to compare the old springs length to new springs. But you said you got this G26 new right? So it shouldn't be a problem.
 
Hey, if the 147's shoot better for you, use 'em!:) You can postulate why all you want, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it, so to speak. Who knows Who pretty much covered everything else I was going to say, if the groups are tight with the 115's and say centered off at 4'oclock, you could just hold high and to the left the same distance your group center is low and to the right (4'oclock is our example here) and be on. The 'ol Kentucky Windage.;)
 
Glocks don't need recoil buffers for in-spec ammo. They love hot ammo, thousands and thousands of rounds of it.
 
The gunshop's trying to sell parts to a newbie.

There's no 9mm out there except some superhot submachine gun rounds that your Glock would ever have a problem with (and even then it'd eat hundreds of those just fine). Recoil buffers solve a nonexistent problem in a 9mm.


Group size is actual accuracy. It may be left/right whatever of your sights a bit, but if the group is tiny, your accuracy is good (then just adjust your sights).


WWB FMJ ammo is practice ammo. Sometimes it's not as accurate.
Try Remington UMC or CCI Blazer, your groups may tighten up since some guns like some brands more than others. My G30 doesn't like White Box.
 
I had a Ruger P89 that would give groups 1/3 the size with 147s as it did with 115s, so it's nothing unusual in my book.
 
It sounds like that pistol doesn't like 115 grain loads, although you might try some other brands before accepting that blanket statement.

As to buffers, IMHO, they have no place in any gun. The sole purpose is to help the gun huggers coddle their supposedly delicate guns (Glocks and 1911's are delicate only in the minds of some folks). Worse, they can make a gun unreliable by preventing the slide from locking back on an empty magazine or by absorbing energy that should go into the slide return part of the cycle.

Jim
 
How can you determine accuracy from 7 yards? Suppose we put the mentioned pistol in a Ransom Rest and fired a variety of ammo from 7 yards. Just how much variation do you think you would see?

Many pistols fired for accuracy at 25 yards will group from 2 to 8 inches and thats at 3 and 1/2 times the distance.

7 yards is more a yardstick of the shooter than the ammunition or the gun.
 
It would take some truly horrendous ammo to make the difference you are talking about. Mechanically both should probably be going through one slightly enlarged hole at 7 yards. So, my guess is the 147 is less snappy and loud so you jerk the trigger less. Moreso, maybe your aiming point is too big, imprecise sight picture. Try a 1" dot at that range. The gun will more than likely put them all in that dot with any factory ammo. Will you? ;)
 
Ok, just a question H2L,

Have you had any "formal" handgun training? In other workds, NRA basic pistol? If not, may I strongly suggest it?

I am not inmplying anything meant to be offensive, but the first thing we have to look at is the "adjustable nut behind the butt" of any firearm.

Just keep in mind sight picture, trigger squeeze, follow through.

Be Safe, have fun
 
Navy Joe....

(Is that your name or do you really like marine coffee?)


That's the thing I want to know. I am sure the gun is much more accurate than I'll ever be.

But I need to know if ammo plays a part as well. Because if I can shoot good ammo I can make up for some of my own faults.


And then as I get better that extra accuracy is like gravy on the cake.
 
nemesis...

I've been shooting at 7 yds because my CCW class is coming up and that is the distance one shoots at to qualify. I have limited time and money for practice so I've just been mainly concentrating on that distance. Some shorter ranges but nothing over it.
 
I missed the distance the first time I read the thread.

Accuracy issues at that distance are usually going to be shooter induced.

If you have a gun that won't group at that distance it's got to be pretty messed up.

If you have ammo that won't group at that distance something's VERY wrong. I've had ammo that keyholed the target and still shot decent groups up close.

The WWB 115gr FMJ is far from premium ammo, but I've found it to be reasonably accurate.

Here's a group I shot with it.
 

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Go to your favorite gun shop, buy two cases of ammo, shoot all of it, and tell us all about it later.:) Since you want to CCW this one, you probably don't have one of those finger rests that replaces the magazine baseplate. If this is the first pistol with a two finger grip that you have owned, it will take a little getting used to. Trust me, eventually you will be shooting it like it was a 17, if you put the time and effort into it.
 
I'll rephrase. I can shoot quarter size groups at 7yds. all day long with a Jennings .25. Don't worry about the gun, don't worry about the ammo, worry about breaking the trigger without moving the sights. When you get okay with that, judge your ammo by shooting back to back 25yd groups with two different types.
 
Here-to,
It's not the gun and it's really not the ammo,,,,well kinda not.
The "problem" is mostly in your head. I see this type of thing quite a bit.

WWB 115 gr = cheap.
147 gr JHP = premium (expensive) ammunition.

Basicly what you're doing is muffing the shots with the cheaper stuff, while taking your time and concentrating when you use the JHP so "each shot counts", so to speak.

It's not a "rookie" kind of thing either. I've seen many a seasond shooter that will shoot better with premium ammunition, or centerfire vs .22lr just because of the mental part of it. Another area it crops up is where someone will shoot better with a borrowed gun than they will with their own.

Speaking from personal experience, I know I tend to laps into shooting better with Federal Hydra - Shok's in 230 gr .45acp than with anything else. A huge part of it is the mental part of the HS being "expensive".

Next trip to the range, take 20 rounds of WWB - - and not a single round more - - and tell yourself that's all there is, there ain't no more - and stick to it.

Remember - Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
 
It could be the bullet weight. With a higher mass, the physics involved are different, and it could just shoot better with the heavier stuff.

My CZ-clone shoots 180grain .40 into far tighter groups than with 165grain. That's shooting WWB, no premium stuff. Odd, but it does so.
 
I'll be shooting some more on Monday if the 147s continue to group better I'll use those to qualify with during my CCW class on Thursday.
 
In most handguns, you'll find that the lighter bullet will shoot lower than their heavier counterparts because:

* A lighter projectile naturally travels out the barrel more quickly - doing so before the muzzle jumps in the air from recoil.

* A heavier bullet is traveling slower and the muzzle starts to climb just as the projectile is leaving the barrel.

Hence, a lighter load usually shoots lower and the heavier round tends to shoot a little higher, but all of this is generally mute at close SD range.
 
I went to the range today and shot 30 rnds each of WWB 115 FMJ, 124 FMJ, and 147 JHP at 21 feet.

I shot 30 rnds because that is what I will shoot to qualify. I need to get 26 out of 30 on the target. 21 feet because that is the qual range.


The 115s and the 124s both 30 out of 30 on the target and had the same score of 286 and both would easily qualify. The 147s scored 29/30 with a score of 276. Again a qualifying effort.

I shot slow and stayed relaxed and had no weapon issues.


I think I was out of line asking for opinions with such a small sample size.

So I apologize.
 
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