NC Cruffler
Member
I ignore reserve auctions that show up in my recon emails.
I now remember bidding in a single reserve auction where the reserve price was listed within the item description. Go figure.
Explain purpose of auction reserve
- Thread starter moewadle
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I ignore reserve auctions that show up in my recon emails.
I now remember bidding in a single reserve auction where the reserve price was listed within the item description. Go figure.
deadin
Member
My question is - How do you know a reserve auction has a ridiculous reserve unless you or someone else bids on it?
jakemccoy
Member
Some people are saying that as a general principle they don't bid on auctions that have any reserve. Hey, nobody said it's fair. 
scottaschultz
Member
If you won't even bid on something just because it has a reserve, then you just don't want it!
If there is something I am interested in, I do my homework to see what I think it is worth and then I set my upper limit. I put in a bid and either it works or it doesn't. I cost me $0.00 to find out. If my bid does not meet the reserve price, then obviously the seller and I do not agree on the value. I don't take it personally and I don't go around whining about how "unfair" the auction is.
The owner of the item sets the rules. As has been said so many times in this thread and as Michael Corleone said to his brother Sonny in The Godfather, "It's not personal, Sonny. It's strictly business."
Scott
If there is something I am interested in, I do my homework to see what I think it is worth and then I set my upper limit. I put in a bid and either it works or it doesn't. I cost me $0.00 to find out. If my bid does not meet the reserve price, then obviously the seller and I do not agree on the value. I don't take it personally and I don't go around whining about how "unfair" the auction is.
The owner of the item sets the rules. As has been said so many times in this thread and as Michael Corleone said to his brother Sonny in The Godfather, "It's not personal, Sonny. It's strictly business."
Scott
jakemccoy
Member
Hi, I have money to buy when I show up at auctions. If I see a reserve, I usually whine, kick and scream if it's something I really want, and I take it personally. I've also been known to roll around on the ground and cry for mommy. Why do sellers do that to me? They know they hold the key to my happiness. It's not fair! I won't be bidding at your auction if it has a reserve, just to spite you.
jakemccoy
Member
Seriously, I don't bid on auctions with reserve because I have no interest in revealing value to a seller who is unwilling to reveal value to me. Yeah, by using a reserve, the seller is unwilling to reveal what the seller thinks is the value of the item. However, the seller still wants people to bid and reveal what they think the value is. If that sounds like good business dealings to you, then that's great. Go for it.
Also, I like to have more predictability. Online auctions tend to last for days. So, bidding is like having money out there in limbo. If I bid on any online auction, I really want the item, and I'm likely to outbid any other bidder. However, who knows what the reserve is? I don't have the patience to wait and figure it out. Also, why should I put my money on the line only to be subjected to an annoying, unsure situation for a few days?
I just move on. That may not sound like solid reasoning to you, but it doesn't matter because it's not your money that I'm using to bid.
Also, I like to have more predictability. Online auctions tend to last for days. So, bidding is like having money out there in limbo. If I bid on any online auction, I really want the item, and I'm likely to outbid any other bidder. However, who knows what the reserve is? I don't have the patience to wait and figure it out. Also, why should I put my money on the line only to be subjected to an annoying, unsure situation for a few days?
I just move on. That may not sound like solid reasoning to you, but it doesn't matter because it's not your money that I'm using to bid.
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I am the OP so will comment again
I do not like reserves because I like to know the real minimum bid that will get the item. However, I do not think a reserve is unfair or unethical and I will not refuse to bid on a reserve item just because of the reserve. I will bid on something based on how much I want it. In the case I mentioned in my OP I said I stopped at $275 and the reserve had not yet been met. Later I did go higher and surpassed the reserve of what must be $285 because that is the current high bid amount by me and now the reserve has been met. By my calculations the item should easily be worth $285 and I am not sure how much more, if any, I am willing to pay. In the meantime thanks for all your thoughts on this.
I do not like reserves because I like to know the real minimum bid that will get the item. However, I do not think a reserve is unfair or unethical and I will not refuse to bid on a reserve item just because of the reserve. I will bid on something based on how much I want it. In the case I mentioned in my OP I said I stopped at $275 and the reserve had not yet been met. Later I did go higher and surpassed the reserve of what must be $285 because that is the current high bid amount by me and now the reserve has been met. By my calculations the item should easily be worth $285 and I am not sure how much more, if any, I am willing to pay. In the meantime thanks for all your thoughts on this.
deadin
Member
Last time I looked you know instantly what the reserve is if you bid enough.
Next excuse?
Regardless of what some of you "bidders" feel, I'm just not enough altruistic to offer things out there for your benefit. I'm more interested in my benefit and anything I can do to protect my investment and at the same time try to encourage a bidding war, I'm all for.
Y'all must like "Buy it Now", but that's not an auction. It just a classified ad. (and usually overpriced). You talk about it being a "waste of time" to bid on a reserve. How about the time you have to spend sitting around until the end the auction to make sure that you aren't outbid? With the 15 minute rule you can't snipe, so what in the benefit of bidding your max early and letting the nibblers work on it for a week or two? By bidding your max right at the end, you have to be on line to see if you win or not. Your money is still in limbo until the auction is over unless it's a BIN. (See above)
jakemccoy
Member
I meant to say it's a waste of time and energy for me to think about a reserve auction. I did say the reasoning might not make sense to others. That's OK with me.
mgmorden
Member
I generally pass on auctions with reserves too. Too much hassle. Don't wanna sell below a certain price point? Then set the starting bid there. That way you don't waste your time and I don't waste mine messing with an auction where we're not going to agree. A big issue is that the reserves are usually set far too high anyways. I hang out on Gunbroker a LOT looking for particular items. Far too often I'll see the same rifle on it's little auto-relist rotation going back up for sale over and over and over again. People bid on it every time. They never meet the reserve. The reality is that the seller is just not willing to actually let the gun go for market price. They'd rather hold out hope that some idiot will pay their inflated price. Meanwhile the same gun has been sitting on the "auction" site for a year or more just wasting people's time.
Other pet peeves of mine: credit card fees. I don't mind actually paying them one bit, but you better call it a fee or a surcharge. The instant I see some bullcrap about "final bid price reflects 3% cash discount" I leave. That trick was stupid when it was for fixed prices (a discount comes off of an advertised price), but for auctions where the bidders set the price it's even worse. Regardless of the final price being the same, the seller calling it a cash discount rather than a credit card surcharge to me implies a snakey and sneaky seller.
And also, you put what all a gun is NOT in a title, and I'll never look at an auction. Example, half the time I'll search for something like "Mauser 6.5x55". I'll get an auction with the following title:
Remington 6.5x55 NOT Mauser, Winchester, Ruger, Tikka, Browning, Marlin
No crap, if it's a Remington it's not those things. The idea on their part though is that their little auction pops up if you search for ANY of those. Again, this indicates a dishonest seller, and worse if I didn't search for Remington then you've now polluted my search results with an item I wasn't searching for. Even if their listing IS something I'm looking for I'll pass by these.
Other pet peeves of mine: credit card fees. I don't mind actually paying them one bit, but you better call it a fee or a surcharge. The instant I see some bullcrap about "final bid price reflects 3% cash discount" I leave. That trick was stupid when it was for fixed prices (a discount comes off of an advertised price), but for auctions where the bidders set the price it's even worse. Regardless of the final price being the same, the seller calling it a cash discount rather than a credit card surcharge to me implies a snakey and sneaky seller.
And also, you put what all a gun is NOT in a title, and I'll never look at an auction. Example, half the time I'll search for something like "Mauser 6.5x55". I'll get an auction with the following title:
Remington 6.5x55 NOT Mauser, Winchester, Ruger, Tikka, Browning, Marlin
No crap, if it's a Remington it's not those things. The idea on their part though is that their little auction pops up if you search for ANY of those. Again, this indicates a dishonest seller, and worse if I didn't search for Remington then you've now polluted my search results with an item I wasn't searching for. Even if their listing IS something I'm looking for I'll pass by these.
deadin
Member
That'll show 'em!
Tom Fury
Member
The reserve price IS the minimum they want for it...anything over is gravy; while you may know you only want to spend so much, the seller doesn't want to let it go for less than the reserve; it's a way of saying: "I think it's worth this much, and if I don't get at least that much of an offer, I don't care to sell it."
What ticks me off are reserves that are way out of line to begin with...$900 for a S&W 457?
Cheers, TF
What ticks me off are reserves that are way out of line to begin with...$900 for a S&W 457?
Cheers, TF
deadin
Member
How about a listing fee that commensurate with the starting price or reserve price, whichever is higher? If the seller wants to troll for suckers or just wants fool himself with what he thinks his gun is worth, make him pay for it.
Refundable if the item sells. Also, no free relists unless the price comes down.
Refundable if the item sells. Also, no free relists unless the price comes down.
jakemccoy
Member
deadin must have two personalities...lol
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
member
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2007
- Messages
- 13,146
To simplify this:
1. The purpose of a 'reserve' is to insure that the seller gets a set bare minimum that he/she decides upon, and the 'auctionees' agree to abide by that by participating in that particular auction; i.e. they cannot enforce their high bid as a contract if it doesn't meet the stated reserve. If it doesn't meet the reserve, the seller is not legally obligated to sell, and can re-list or not at his/her option.
2. There are two kinds of 'reserves' on gun auction sites and other types of auction sites, and both work essentially the same, but have a slight variation in form. (A) First, there are the TRUE traditional reserve auctions, where the word "Reserve" is used and the reserve price is clearly stated. This is the way things should be sold when there is a reserve; and (B) The auction STATES that it's a "No reserve" auction, which is really a bold-faced lie, because it most certainly is a reserve auction. But instead of there being an official technical reserve price, the auction site simply allows the SELLER to place his/her own "First Bid" or "Starting Bid" which is not a bid at all (again, bold faced lie), but it's the SELLER making a reserve while still able to (in a sense) defraud the public into getting excited by thinking it's a no reserve auction. Obviously I think it that auction sites should NOT be allowed to use type B with their reserve auctions, as it's just confusion and arguably fraud.
Have fun.
Absolutely; love it! That's kind of a no-brainer; can't believe it's not like that already.
1. The purpose of a 'reserve' is to insure that the seller gets a set bare minimum that he/she decides upon, and the 'auctionees' agree to abide by that by participating in that particular auction; i.e. they cannot enforce their high bid as a contract if it doesn't meet the stated reserve. If it doesn't meet the reserve, the seller is not legally obligated to sell, and can re-list or not at his/her option.
2. There are two kinds of 'reserves' on gun auction sites and other types of auction sites, and both work essentially the same, but have a slight variation in form. (A) First, there are the TRUE traditional reserve auctions, where the word "Reserve" is used and the reserve price is clearly stated. This is the way things should be sold when there is a reserve; and (B) The auction STATES that it's a "No reserve" auction, which is really a bold-faced lie, because it most certainly is a reserve auction. But instead of there being an official technical reserve price, the auction site simply allows the SELLER to place his/her own "First Bid" or "Starting Bid" which is not a bid at all (again, bold faced lie), but it's the SELLER making a reserve while still able to (in a sense) defraud the public into getting excited by thinking it's a no reserve auction. Obviously I think it that auction sites should NOT be allowed to use type B with their reserve auctions, as it's just confusion and arguably fraud.
Have fun.
Absolutely; love it! That's kind of a no-brainer; can't believe it's not like that already.
deadin
Member
Not at all. I would have no problem with paying a fee for a "hidden" reserve.
My reason for using one is to protect myself while still trying to ignite a bidding war with a low starting bid or to "test" the market on something I'm not sure of it's worth.. It's only reasonable that you pay more for a higher reserve, just like you pay more for a higher sale price. I feel sellers should also pay for relistings after 1 or 2 if for no other reason than the clear out much of the chaff on the auction sites.
Now, why this won't happen. Auction sites cater to the sellers. Even though the buyers are actually paying the money, it's the sellers that are billed and collected from. If they didn't please the sellers, they will go somewhere that will.
Buyers are just the poor dumb sheep that are led around by their noses.
If you could truly start an effective "buyer's revolt", maybe something would come of it, but I don't see it happening.
jakemccoy
Member
A buyer's revolt won't happen. The goods are just not that special. Also, the idea of buyers being poor dumb sheep doesn't make any sense. It's not that serious, dude. Go have a beer. Calm down.
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mustang_steve
Member
The reason I won't bid on reserve auctions is this: with very few exceptions, the reserve is always well above a reasonable price for the item in question. I'd rather go look elsewhere.
The way I figured that out was by tracking a good many reserve auctions in the past...it is the trend to set the reserve usually as high if not higher than the cost of a new item if it's less than common at the time of auction.
The way I figured that out was by tracking a good many reserve auctions in the past...it is the trend to set the reserve usually as high if not higher than the cost of a new item if it's less than common at the time of auction.
Defense Minister
Member
If I see an online auction with a reserve, whether it be on Gunbroker, eBay, or another auction site, I just pass on by and go to the next item. When it comes to business, I'll skip the games.
I dislike reserve auctions where they post the starting bid so high you can't bid on it as only a fool would pay that much. I worked a real auction for years and the fools that bought back their own stuff was amazing but they had to pay the auctioneer his percentage and found out if thay had of taken the last bid they would have been almost even anyways.
scottaschultz
Member
Obviously putting a reserve on an item is a really bad idea!
As of right now, 6:00am August 15, 2009, Gunbroker has listed:
29,692 Rifles
11,407 Shotguns
24,544 Pistols
356 Cowboy Action Shooting guns
That is 65,999 firearms! So exactlty what would Gunbroker's motivation be for making things more restrictive on the sellers?
It is all about the sellers! The 2nd Amendment gives you the right to own firearms, NOT the right to get one cheap!
And not all reserves are unreasonable. I recently sold a 70 year old Savage 99K 30-30 rifle on Gunbroker. I put a $1500 reserve on it. It sold for $2400!
Scott
As of right now, 6:00am August 15, 2009, Gunbroker has listed:
29,692 Rifles
11,407 Shotguns
24,544 Pistols
356 Cowboy Action Shooting guns
That is 65,999 firearms! So exactlty what would Gunbroker's motivation be for making things more restrictive on the sellers?
It is all about the sellers! The 2nd Amendment gives you the right to own firearms, NOT the right to get one cheap!
And not all reserves are unreasonable. I recently sold a 70 year old Savage 99K 30-30 rifle on Gunbroker. I put a $1500 reserve on it. It sold for $2400!
Scott
Frankly i have a safe full of rifles and shotguns i bought from G.B auctions.
Have never once been burned and every transaction was handled very well indeed.
Now I am not wild about reserve auctions but I have bid on them and won.
Strangely enough each of the few reserve auctions I have won was my last bid on the gun that I thought was reasonable for that particular firearm in it's condition,availability today,or what I was truely looking for.
Knowing true values certainly helps cause if you dont you will get caught up in the bidding storm which I wont.
In fact last Friday there was a certain pistol up for bid with a reserve and i gave a third bid on the maximum i thought it would be worth and then i stopped because the reserve had not been met.
The listing did not sell and the guy relisted for one more day and then pulled it as no one bid on it.
It was a very clean pistol probably close to 98% and has not been made for at least twelve years now and eventually i am confident I will find another and will buy it reserve auction or not.
It's a free market guys.
Have never once been burned and every transaction was handled very well indeed.
Now I am not wild about reserve auctions but I have bid on them and won.
Strangely enough each of the few reserve auctions I have won was my last bid on the gun that I thought was reasonable for that particular firearm in it's condition,availability today,or what I was truely looking for.
Knowing true values certainly helps cause if you dont you will get caught up in the bidding storm which I wont.
In fact last Friday there was a certain pistol up for bid with a reserve and i gave a third bid on the maximum i thought it would be worth and then i stopped because the reserve had not been met.
The listing did not sell and the guy relisted for one more day and then pulled it as no one bid on it.
It was a very clean pistol probably close to 98% and has not been made for at least twelve years now and eventually i am confident I will find another and will buy it reserve auction or not.
It's a free market guys.
rbernie
Contributing Member
Seventy one posts - I think that this one has covered enough ground, and then some.
The free market is king. Nobody has any obligation to sell you anything that you want at the price that you want.
The free market is king. Nobody has any obligation to sell you anything that you want at the price that you want.
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