When an auction is not an auction

[lionking]

quote " (And if someone actually does bid the $2000 , doesn't that establish that it was worth at least that amount and maybe more?)

Why is it that it seems to be only "buyers" that are vocal complainers about auction prices? I don't see many complaints from sellers about the cheapskates that haunt the auction sites.)"

Well yes and no. In my time I have seen several auctions where say a seller decides to unload a few of his CMP Garands all of similar condition. He lists auction style with no reserve price, say he sells 3 rifles, one sells at winning bid $1650.00, another sells at winning bid $1700.00, the other sells at ending bid $1675.00. I the buyer watching this have come away with a pretty good idea what that condition Garand should expect to sell for.

But then another guy selling his similar condition Garand starts bidding at $1000.00 with a unknown reserve, so we bid and bid up to $1700.00 or $1800,00 never breaking his reserve but the guy relists it and relists it for months. At some point we buyers just start passing on his auction with a "oh that guy again" attitude.

Going back to ebay I watched a couple sellers list their guitar and it sells for a lower than expected ending bid price then magically they relist it a few weeks later at a higher price with a reserve because the fact is they were expecting to get more and wiggled their way out of the first sale (which interesting enough many times the end bidder was a newbie with 0 or 1 feedback which is suspisious making me think shill bidder) and took no chances the 2nd time starting at a higher price with a reserve because they couldn't bare the thought that their Gibson ended bidding at $300 or $400 less than what they thought it would go for. But then nobody buys his relisted higher price.

 

[newfalguy101]

I would like to know why the reserve is not the starting bid set buy the seller.
No one at the auctions sites will tell me why the reserve is hidden. To me that is dishonest to hide the minimum price and a waste of time to the buyer.

A reserve will tell a seller what the buyers believe the item is worth, even if its LESS than what the seller believes it worth, without the seller losing anything except time.

Set a starting price that's too high and all you know is buyers wont spend "that" much, but, you have no idea what they would spend.

I seldom use a reserve anymore, but, if I am not sure what ts worth, and don't want to "give it away" I will sometimes use a dime start with a reserve price set where I "think" it should be, and if it doesn't sell, I can look at the high bid, and get an idea of what it will sell for if relisted..............I use it to make a better informed decision when setting prices later on similar items

 

[lionking]

Its a different world now and generally in the buyers favor.I buy on ebay and GB but also sell for my company parts for a auto line on ebay and amazon. I also handle walk in customers. In this day and age many customers have already shopped online before they come to see or call you. If you give them your price they will put their smart phone in your face and say "well I can get it online for this'

Probably hard to auction a Glock on gunbroker if you are a dealer, most buyers do their homework and the cheapest price is usually more important to them compared to seller reputation or service except when you get a few loyal repeat customers who may be willing to pay a little more (but not much more) just because. The only thing that will stop the buyer is if you have no history or a horrible reputation but other than that the cheapest price gets the sale.

But different items matter. The auto parts industry online is cut throat plus dealing with aftermarket. I bought a Canon rebel camera last year on ebay and everybody was the same price take it or leave it , it is only then when seller reputation and location matter more.

The only time you really see buyers spending carelessly is panic buying like what we see in the gun world after a proposed ban or if the guy is rich and just doesn't care what he pays as long as he gets it which most people can't think that way.

That's my thoughts on fixed pricing on "auction" sites

 

[deadin]

wiggled their way out of the first sale (which interesting enough many times the end bidder was a newbie with 0 or 1 feedback which is suspisious making me think shill bidder)

Is there any rule about bidding on you own auction as long as you are willing to pay the fees involved? I know if I did something stupid like starting a no reserve auction at $1.00 and for some reason it didn't come anywhere near what I figured it was worth, I would be willing to take a hit on paying the fees to save my investment. (And I don't think the auction company would have any problem with it as long as they get their money.)

 

[Delford]

I have occasionally found some truly bargain prices (on guns I didn't want but had researched) on GB but usually SlickGuns gives a price range for a particular gun from various sellers. I find that more useful and have ended up waiting for my LGS to put it online at an even lower price. That without FFL fees and shipping.

 

[newfalguy101]

Is there any rule about bidding on you own auction as long as you are willing to pay the fees involved? I know if I did something stupid like starting a no reserve auction at $1.00 and for some reason it didn't come anywhere near what I figured it was worth, I would be willing to take a hit on paying the fees to save my investment. (And I don't think the auction company would have any problem with it as long as they get their money.)

Gunbroker and I believe E-bay strictly forbid sellers from bidding on their own auctions, therefore, its either take the hit, or use a reserve..

 

[GBExpat]

Gunbroker and I believe E-bay strictly forbid sellers from bidding on their own auctions, therefore, its either take the hit, or use a reserve..

OR ... set the starting price at the minimum amount that you would find acceptable.

 

[45_auto]

OR ... set the starting price at the minimum amount that you would find acceptable.

You could do that. Then, when you don't get any bids during that 7 day auction, drop it $50 and list it for another week. Then with no bids on that, drop another $50 and another week. Etc, etc, etc.

Or you could just use a $1 starting bid with your reserve at the minimum amount you would find acceptable and find out exactly how much buyers were willing to bid on it during the first week.

It doesn't really matter to me how it's listed. I usually find a dozen or so guns I'm interested in every month. I enter my max amount and move on. If I win it great, if not, there'll be another one along shortly. My method usually wins one or two a month at prices substantially less than my max bid. On the other hand, there are usually several a month where my max bid doesn't even reach the reserve.

 

[GBExpat]

... Or you could just use a $1 starting bid with your reserve at the minimum amount you would find acceptable and find out exactly how much buyers were willing to bid on it during the first week. ...

And that is a 4th option to add to newfalguy101's "Only Two".

 

[Ryanxia]

I'm of the mind that reserve prices are a joke anyways. If you're not willing to sell an item for the initial listing, you shouldn't be allowed to list it at that price. It would be like a car dealer listing cars for $500! or a construction company listing a 3 bedroom ranch at $600!
Just my opinion though.

 

[deadin]

In my book overpriced listing are in the same category as under priced offers. They are just someone trying to "get a deal", one from the selling side and the other from the buying side. These two sides will nearly never meet and therefor neither one sets the "value" of the item.

 

[GBExpat]

In my book overpriced listing are in the same category as under priced offers. They are just someone trying to "get a deal", one from the selling side and the other from the buying side. These two sides will nearly never meet and therefor neither one sets the "value" of the item.

I have always thought of overpriced listings as Trolling For Suckers listings ... and on a couple of occasions I have seen them actually succeed for the Seller.

 

[HRnightmare]

Unfortunately Ebay has become mostly this style of "auctions". I actually rarely bid on things anymore. I find the buy it now or best offer's. Typically when I want something I am set on wanting or needing it and don't want to wait and have a big D competition with people about who can hold the "highest bidder" spot longest.

I also sell alot and I start my listing at the min price I am willig to take. Reserve bids auctions are a waste of my time.

 

[evan price]

When I started buying on gunbroker I discovered the penny start, unknown reserve auctions were a total waste of time. The same stuff recycles over and over. I don't want to bother bidding and not winning. I want to bid and win.
My favorite searches are all set to ignore reserve auctions and sort by price. I look at auctions for stuff I like and put them on the watch list. If it's something I really want I throw up a lowball bid to keep it on my bid list, which is my "hot" list, stuff I really want. Otherwise, I keep watching and I don't bid until the last hour of the auction. I'm interested in C&R revolvers and shotguns and mouse pistols. I know what they sell for in the local shops and in armslist. I study completed auctions for pricing. I'm looking for deals. I'm not in love with individuals mostly, just examples of types. I prefer mechanically sound examples with surface wear but otherwise original. Carried a lot but not abused.
The best deals I've gotten were things I found looking for something else!

 

[sawdeanz]

It's funny to see both sides getting offended by the other's practices. More than enough people on here have specifically stated they flat out ignore reserved auctions, and I am in that camp as well, yet sellers here seem to insist that the reserve strategy gets more views. From my side I would instantly recognize that the low-starting-reserve auction is going to end up at least $94 anyway so why bother. But I've been the seller too and know how challenging it is, especially because the auction sites heavily favor the buyer.

Clearly there is a melting pot of different markets here and they don't all agree. It's really a shame because the business format of the online auction sites is pretty much undercuts the traditional auction model. Reserve prices make sense there, or with truly unique items. The ideal marketplace would be peer to peer and the selling price is where the seller makes more than selling to a gun shop, and the buyer pays less than what they would pay at a gunshop.

 

[JSH1]

Maybe Gunbroker could reduce the number items that continue to list without hitting reserve by charging a reserve fee. Ebay charges $2 for a reserve below $200 and then 1% of the reserve price above that.

 

[deadin]

Charge $2 for a reserve below $200 and then 1% of the reserve price above that.

I could support this. Especially if they charged every time the listing was renewed.

I also see that Ebay is rolling out a bunch of new seller fees starting May 1st.

 

[newfalguy101]

And that is a 4th option to add to newfalguy101's "Only Two".

see post #52

 

[mudstud]

I find this to be a most interesting thread. Just about every possible way of looking at gun auctions has been thoroughly thrashed out. Myself, I only buy, I have yet to sell anything on an auction site. Furthermore, I only bid/buy items that are collectible, or rare, or out of production. Anything currently available, I purchase through a local dealer. He's got to make a living too, I don't care if it is available online for a couple bucks cheaper. It's not worth the hassle for something available at a local shop.

I don't have strong views on however a seller chooses to list an item. If I am looking at a gun for sale, it is something quite rare, out of production and/or collectible that I cannot find locally. So, I don't concern myself with how it is listed. If the opening bid is low enough that I find it reasonable, I will bid. And I will keep bidding until I have had enough, if it doesn't meet the reserve, then I guess I don't get it! No big deal.

I always get a chuckle out of those auctions where the opening bid is low, whether there is a reserve or not, and, sure enough, the bottom feeders are real quick on the trigger to put in a low ball bid, hoping to snake one out, without anyone else noticing! They are of course, nowhere to be found when the serious bidders get involved. I actually recognize quite a number of these bottom feeders. Some are looking to buy something cheap, and then flip it for a higher price. Some are just plain weasels. Whatever, it takes all kinds. I only find them to be humorous, not serious bidders.

What aggravates me, is when I am bidding on a gun I have decided I need, and some other yahoo keeps on out bidding me!

 

[lionking]

Quote: "It's funny to see both sides getting offended by the other's practices. More than enough people on here have specifically stated they flat out ignore reserved auctions, and I am in that camp as well, yet sellers here seem to insist that the reserve strategy gets more views. From my side I would instantly recognize that the low-starting-reserve auction is going to end up at least $94 anyway so why bother. But I've been the seller too and know how challenging it is, especially because the auction sites heavily favor the buyer.

Clearly there is a melting pot of different markets here and they don't all agree. It's really a shame because the business format of the online auction sites is pretty much undercuts the traditional auction model. Reserve prices make sense there, or with truly unique items. The ideal marketplace would be peer to peer and the selling price is where the seller makes more than selling to a gun shop, and the buyer pays less than what they would pay at a gunshop."

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Either way the ability to buy online is better for all in the end. It depends what you are looking for, price competition is one thing but then there is the fact that we now have the ability to find things that would have been a lot harder to find before auction or sell sites. If you are wanting a nice Garand maybe a certain serial range or a minty bayonet or a unbubba'd Argentine mauser you now have national if not international search power to find it.

For sellers, I don't know what typical percent is markup from cost for new guns selling in a gun store whether in shop or online because I am not a gun seller but I can tell you in the auto industry markup especially for accessories is not much online due to competition. Plus also because corporate demands we buy a certain amount of parts (they make most of the profit), so we must sell them one way or the other then on top offer "free" shipping. But do enough sales on ebay your listing and sell fees lower and you get a 20% discount if you are a power seller. For example my floormats may cost me $100 to get, I am selling them for $130.00 with free shipping, I am only making $20 profit but normal retail list may be $150.00 for a walk in. Yeah its a little irksome when someone offers you $70 for the mats for your listing but they have no clue that they are already listed discounted next to nothing.

I suppose it might be the same for gun stores like in my line of sales auto parts, if you want to sell a brand that company will demand you buy x amount of items to stock your store and then it is on you to sell them. If Glock or whoever demands you buy x amount of guns from them a year otherwise they won't affiliate themselves with you , you are under pressure to move their product. That is the way it is with auto parts and guitars, but I don't know if it is that way with gun items.

 

[oldbear]

No one at the auctions sites will tell me why the reserve is hidden. To me that is dishonest to hide the minimum price and a waste of time to the buyer.

Again, reserve auctions don't bother me in the least. I post my highest bid and let fate take it's course. If my highest bid does not make the reserve price, oh-well, I'll just keep on looking until I find what I want at what I believe is a fair price.

Perhaps I use auction sites differently than many of you. I use auctions to locate an item I want to own. Sure if I can save a few dollars that's great, but saving money is not my main reason for auction shopping. If saving money is your main goal, Ok, but don't expect to win to many auctions.

 

[mudstud]

Well said, oldbear.

 

[jrdolall]

What Oldbear said. If you go into an auction without knowing what you are willing to pay, forget the items "worth" as that is TBD, then you are screwed.
Let's say you find a revolver you want and you want to buy it for $600. Bid $600 or, in some auction formats like Ebay, you can put in $600 and the computer will proxy bid for you so, if nobody else is bidding, you don't spend the entire $600. If the item goes for $650 then that is above what you wanted to pay so all is good. You didn't overpay and the seller made some money. The entire idea of an auction is to get people excited about an item and have people bid up the price above what the item is worth. It is not so buyers can buy cheaply. Relatively few online auctions are so people can get rid of things they don't want. Those go to yard sales.
The reserve is protecting the seller so I don't blame them for that. Most of these sellers also have storefronts and have the item priced near their reserve. I have sold quite a few things on ebay and I generally put a reserve with a low starting price. Every item, normally electronics, has sold at well above my reserve with multiple bidders. I also bought a couple of vehicles on ebay that I really didn't expect to win at the price.