When an auction is not an auction

[slumlord44]

I look at them all if it is on my want list. Reserves don't bother me. High minimum bids do when the minimum is at or above what I am willing to pay. I hardly ever see a nice gun with a low minimum bid and no reserve sell at a bargain price. That being said, I would be reluctant to sell without a minimum that I am willing to take.

 

[12131]

I can never understand why folks get all fussy over nothing.
"incredibly annoying"? Please! Just move on.
Unless you're just pissed, because the item is the only one available?

 

[medalguy]

More than once I have bid on items, and ended up the high bidder, only to discover I did not meet the unknown reserve. I have even bid on the relisted item and still failed to win the item because my bid did not meet the unknown reserve. Now I just ignore auctions with a reserve on any auction site.

 

[12131]

More than once I have bid on items, and ended up the high bidder, only to discover I did not meet the unknown reserve. I have even bid on the relisted item and still failed to win the item because my bid did not meet the unknown reserve. Now I just ignore auctions with a reserve on any auction site.

Even as the high bidder, if you have not met the reserve each time you place a bid, the auction will say instantly, "Reserve not met". What is there to discover? Bid whatever max you want to pay, and if it happens that the reserve is not met, move on.

 

[natman]

Does anyone else find it incredibly annoying when folks selling things on auction sites, especially gunbroker.com, set the lowest possible bid to be already pretty much at their reserve or "buy it now" price? That seems to defeat the entire spirit of an auction. I wish the sites would actually restrict how people can list things so that they can specify a reserve price if they need to but no minimum bid. A "starting bid" of $490 with a reserve of $500 is not an auction, it's just listing the gun for sale at $500.

There is a difference between a reserve and a buy it now price. Buy it now means just what it says - pay this price now and it's yours. It may not be a true auction, but at least it's honest and up front.

A reserve is a secret minimum that's not shown to the bidder. The high bidder does not get the item *unless* the reserve is met. However, the item is still up for auction until the end time even after the reserve is met. I consider reserves dishonest and pointless. If you don't want to sell the item unless a certain minimum is met, fine, just start the auction there. As you may have gathered from the responses so far, reserves are not very popular among bidders.

 

[buck460XVR]

I can never understand why folks get all fussy over nothing.

Me either. Reminds me of the saying...... "he'd complain if they hung him with a new rope!".

I think it's a combination of the internet and the way our society has become a nation of whiners, snibblers and cry-babies. Used to be certain folks went home and kicked the dog to take out their frustrations. Now they get home, sit down at the computer and go to their favorite forum and whine how lousy/stupid someone/someplace else is. Somehow this makes them feel better, and gives their low ego a boost. I believe this is why we see so many "stupid clerk at the LGS", "dumb kid at Wal-Mart" and "ignorant customer that I set straight at Gander Mountain" threads.

 

[deadin]

For those who think bidding on something with a reserve is a "waste of time", just how much do you think your time is worth? If it's worth that much,maybe you should just be buying from a retail seller.
A 1 cent starting bid and no reserve may work out in the long run if the seller has a lot of thru put, (what he loses on one will be made up on others) however we all aren't in that boat. I may only have one or two guns I want to sell and can't afford to take a loss on them. Hence either a high starting bid or a reserve.
If the high starting bid or a reserve scares you off, all the better. I'm not out there trying to give you a bargain, I'm trying to give myself a bargain.
If your joy in life is bottom feeding, then I can understand not wanting to "waste your time", but quit complaining about the fact that some sellers aren't interested in your hobby.

 

[JSH1]

........I consider reserves dishonest and pointless. If you don't want to sell the item unless a certain minimum is met, fine, just start the auction there. As you may have gathered from the responses so far, reserves are not very popular among bidders.

A low starting price with a reserve may not be popular with the folks here but they work. I haven't sold on Gunbroker but I sell quite a bit on EBay. I posted two items yesterday:

Starting Bid: $0.99 with reserve:
Page Views = 57
Watchers = 14
Bids = 3

Starting Bid: $94.99 with no reserve
Page Views = 17
Watchers = 2
Bids = 0

Low starting bids get more views and bids, plain and simple. The more people bidding usually the higher the sale price.

I don't understand the issue people have with a reserve. You bid the max you will pay and it immediately tells you if you have meet the reserve or not. If not, you are under no obligation to purchase the item and can move on and bid on something else.

 

[DHJenkins]

Has no one been to a brick-and-mortar auction? Reserve prices and starting bids are part of any "real" auction. If you don't like the way auctions work, don't visit one!

I can understand being mad if someone defrauds your or treats you like garbage, but whining about someone you aren't even doing business with? Grow up.

 

[natman]

Low starting bids get more views and bids, plain and simple. The more people bidding usually the higher the sale price.

I don't understand the issue people have with a reserve. You bid the max you will pay and it immediately tells you if you have meet the reserve or not. If not, you are under no obligation to purchase the item and can move on and bid on something else.

Reserves do generate some interest, but they do it by offering the appearance of a low starting price without actually delivering it.

If you want to generate interest in an auction offer a low starting bid with no reserve. Or if you want the security of a higher price start higher. Reserves try to let the seller have it both ways by making the buyer bid in the dark. This starts off a transaction that relies on trust by having the seller playing games with the buyer.

If something I really want is on a reserve auction, I'll bid in exactly the manner described, but otherwise I'll just pass and find an auction with no reserve.

 

[JSH1]

Reserves do generate some interest, but they do it by offering the appearance of a low starting price without actually delivering it.

If you want to generate interest in an auction offer a low starting bid with no reserve. Or if you want the security of a higher price start higher. Reserves try to let the seller have it both ways by making the buyer bid in the dark. This starts off a transaction that relies on trust by having the seller playing games with the buyer.

If something I really want is on a reserve auction, I'll bid in exactly the manner described, but otherwise I'll just pass and find an auction with no reserve.

You apparently don't like the way auctions work. They are a game between a buyer and a seller with each trying to get the best outcome. As DHJenkins said, live in person auctions work the same way. Very few live auctions, especially ones for expensive items, don't have a reserve price. Estate auctions were everything must go are the exceptions. When I went to dealer motorcycle auctions 1/3 of the items didn't hit reserve and we were not told what that reserve was. They just moved to the next bike. (BTW, dealer auctions are crazy, they were selling a bike in about a minute and moving to the next one in line without missing a beat.)

In the hour or so since I posted the results of my Ebay auctions the one with the reserve is up to 74 views / 16 watchers / 15 bids / and $76. The one with the high list price has no new action.

 

[carbine85]

The 15 minute rule sucks. I understand the going once, going twice, sold concept but 15 minutes is too long. I think they should reset the clock for 5 minutes after it gets down to 1 minute if a bid is placed.

 

[Rock185]

I've used the auction sites and much prefer a minimum bid, if any, be shown up front. I have occasionally bought and sold on auction sites and never used a Reserve, but always listed a starting bid. Seems to have worked just fine. If folks enjoy secret Reserve auctions as buyers or sellers, fine by me, but I don't bid....ymmv

 

[lionking]

quote "For those who think bidding on something with a reserve is a "waste of time", just how much do you think your time is worth? If it's worth that much,maybe you should just be buying from a retail seller.
A 1 cent starting bid and no reserve may work out in the long run if the seller has a lot of thru put, (what he loses on one will be made up on others) however we all aren't in that boat. I may only have one or two guns I want to sell and can't afford to take a loss on them."

Buying from a retailer is fine and dandy if it is a dime a dozen Glock or Ar-15. Bu when its a "minty" M1 Garand or something like that the buyer knows what it is generally worth, so does the seller but the seller wants to make above what it is generally worth which is why you see the seller relist, and relist the item again and again after each auction gets bid up to generally what it is worth but never meeting the sellers expectations.

So that minty M1 , say has been sold a few times over the course of months on GB for $1700.00 , we buyers saw that, so we bid up to $1600.00 because we want to come away thinking we got a little score, but the buyer set the reserve at $2000.00 because he thinks his M1 is that more special and he just relists and relists it the same for months because he doesn't have to pay a listing fee.

Yeah we buyers wanted that hard to find minty Garand but know the seller wants to get more and above because we never break his minimum and he has no incentive to lower it. Unless he is getting divorced or lost his job and is desperate for money but most sellers on GB are not desperate to get the gun sold.

I see the same thing happen with Gibson Les Pauls on ebay, so many people think their used LP should sell for almost what a new one would, except the once in a while motivated seller who needs the cash quick, and if you don't sell it you still pay a listing fee. List it and don't sell it 5 times you probably get tired of paying the fee and either lower the price or just don't relist.

 

[ironworkerwill]

I don't know why they don't just start with what ever the reserve would be and quit playing stupid games. It is rather annoying.

 

[JSH1]

I don't know why they don't just start with what ever the reserve would be and quit playing stupid games. It is rather annoying.

They don't because that results in a lower selling price.

 

[larryh1108]

...say has been sold a few times over the course of months on GB for $1700.00 , we buyers saw that, so we bid up to $1600.00 because we want to come away thinking we got a little score, but the buyer set the reserve at $2000.00 because he thinks his M1 is that more special and he just relists and relists it the same for months...

Let's discuss the flip side of this "minty M1. The seller wants $2000 because, of course, his M1 is special. Fair enough, his gun. He won't sell it for under $2000 because that's the value to him. IMO, his mistake is making it a reserve auction. List the darn thing with a $1999 opening bid with a Buy Now of $2000 and let it ride.

Why? Because someone will surely come along who has deeper pockets than the guy trying to save a few bucks. He's always wanted a "minty" M1 and knows they go for "almost" $2000. This guy may be busy and hate the waiting part of auctions. He sees the gun, likes what he sees and does not wish to "play the game" and moves on. If he sees that he can buy it now for that $2000, he may just pull the trigger and buy it because he doesn't see many in that condition and has the itch today... right now.

IMO, reserve auctions remove the serious buyer with the money who doesn't have the time to wait 6 days or check back every hour. Some guys just want to know the price and will buy it or walk away. The guy with the $2000 reserve has the open auction with a high reserve because he thinks he can get more than the $2000 and wants every penny. After he has to relist it 2 or 3 times, it's time to set the price with a Buy Now or just remove the auction until hunting season or Christmas or tax time rolls around. Leaving that auction to relist time and again thru the summer just makes it a stale relist and no one cares any more.

Yes, I sell on Ebay and Gunbroker. A lot of people think their own guns are worth more than the same ones on GB are because they know the history. However, the potential buyer does not know that same history and won't pay a premium just because you are a nice guy.

 

[ironworkerwill]

Ok, I must have been sleeping in economics class that day.

 

[deadin]

IMO, reserve auctions remove the serious buyer with the money who doesn't have the time to wait 6 days or check back every hour. Some guys just want to know the price and will buy it or walk away.

"Buy It Now" listings remove it from the auction arena and make it just another retail-like sale. I'm sure that if there is someone out there willing to pay $2000.00 for a $1500.00 gun they can find one without messing around with auctions. Why not just bid the $2000.00 and see what happens? (And if someone actually does bid the $2000 , doesn't that establish that it was worth at least that amount and maybe more?)

Why is it that it seems to be only "buyers" that are vocal complainers about auction prices? I don't see many complaints from sellers about the cheapskates that haunt the auction sites.)

However, I do support those that think there should be relisting fees if for no other reason than to thin out listings that have no action. How about an fee for each relisting (either flat or increasing) unless the "what will buy it price" (Reserve, starting bid or BIN, whichever is higher) is lowered by ,say 5%, each time it is relisted?

 

[homatok]

Quote #1 "I don't know why they don't just start with what ever the reserve would be and quit playing stupid games. It is rather annoying."

Quote #2 "They don't because that results in a lower selling price."

Sorry, maybe I am missing something here but how can it result in a lower selling price??? If I list at what the reserve would be, is that not the lowest price I am prepared to take? Seems to me that if anyone is seriously interested he/she will bid at the "reserve" (starting bid), and if someone else wants it he/she will up the bid from there and away we go.

 

[JSH1]

Quote #1 "I don't know why they don't just start with what ever the reserve would be and quit playing stupid games. It is rather annoying."

Quote #2 "They don't because that results in a lower selling price."

Sorry, maybe I am missing something here but how can it result in a lower selling price??? If I list at what the reserve would be, is that not the lowest price I am prepared to take? Seems to me that if anyone is seriously interested he/she will bid at the "reserve" (starting bid), and if someone else wants it he/she will up the bid from there and away we go.

A low starting bid leads to more people viewing the auction and more people bidding on the auction. The more people bidding, in general, the higher the selling price. Plenty of people sort the items they are looking by price Low to High. A low price puts your item at the top of the list so it gets more views.

There is a reason that EBay recommends sellers start their auction at $0.99. EBay gets a percentage of sale price, not a flat fee. They don't make recommendations that reduce their profit. Again back to my example of two very similar items I listed on EBay Sunday:

• The one I started at $0.99 has 119 page views, 21 people watching the item, and 17 bids. It is currently at $78
• The one I started at $94.99 has 21 page views, 1 person watching the item, and 0 bids.

I used to start my auctions at the minimum amount I was willing to sell the item for. Some sold, some didn't, usually they didn't sell for much over my starting price. Then I took EBay's advice and started listing items for $0.99. A lot of those items sell well over what I would have used as a starting price or a Buy-It-Now price. The key is getting a lot of people bidding against each other. Sometime items go for crazy prices. I recently sold an old metal detector I've had for 25 years that was missing some parts for more than a the buyer could bought a new one off Amazon. (This was a cheap detector 25 years ago)

I have found that the key for a high selling price is the number of people watching one of my items. The more people watching the higher the selling price. That makes sense because everyone of those people watching are going to get a notification a couple hours before my item ends. That has the potential to bring them back into the auction and make a bid.

 

[ironworkerwill]

So, basically it's advertisement and competitive oneupmanship. I'd make a terrible salesman/marketeer.

 

[jrdolall]

Online auctions are more of a store front for businesses than they are about old style auctions. I remember when EBay was an auction sight. Now I bet that 90% of what is sold on EBay is from a business rather than an individual. Gunbroker is the same.

Car auctions generally have a reserve price. Sometimes that reserve is more than the car is actually "worth" but the seller wants to see if there is someone out there that really wants the car.
I really dislike the LONG auctions of 30 days or even 7 days! I guess I am generally ready to make a purchase when I get ready to bid and may bid on more than one of a particular item. I understand why they do it but I don't care for it.
Starting the bidding at zero doesn't really bother me because I know the price is going to get to a certain point no matter where the bidding starts. The low price gets more people to view the auction and the reserve makes sure you don't sell something way below what you thik it is worth.

 

[oldbear]

First See everything in post # 14, by Craig C.

Second reserve auctions don't bother me in the least. If I see something I want I make my first bid, this is also the highest price I am willing to pay. Then I walk away from the auction until it's over. If my first and last bid does not exceed the reserve price so be it. If my first bid does exceed the reserve price then I'm in the running.

Reserve bids are to protect the seller from bottom feeders who scrounge around looking for any chance to get something for nothing.

I do though want to know what the shipping costs are upfront.

 

[a98doc]

Resirve = Starting price

I would like to know why the reserve is not the starting bid set buy the seller.
No one at the auctions sites will tell me why the reserve is hidden. To me that is dishonest to hide the minimum price and a waste of time to the buyer.