Extra Light 9MM Loads w/ Bullseye

[Mad Chemist]

So I am trying to work up an extra soft 9mm practice load for my recoil sensitive wife and for the introduction of new shooters. I was recently able to acquire a can of Bullseye. Since Bullseye is supposed to be great for light loads, I am hoping to have better results this time.

My previous attempts used Ramshot Competition. I was able to produce loads that were very soft and cycled reliably (3.3-3.4gr) but accuracy was noticeably poor. I usually shoot at an indoor range with 50' lanes. Even though the recoil was substantially less than my std practice loads, my groups opened up considerably.

The pistols I will be using are a S&W Shield and occasionally a G19. G19 grip is too big for my wife's tiny tiny hands.

I made a test batch using xtreme 124gr plated RN with 4.4gr bullseye seated to 1.142'' which is my std COAL for all my 9mm loads. This load was reasonably accurate but recoil was greater than the Competition load and the 4.4 gr of Bullseye left a lot of unburnt powder on my hands.

I would like to take this load as light as will reliably cycle the pistol. If I decrease COAL can I expect more complete powder burn? I want to stick with the 124gr plated bullets but I could buy some 115s or even 147s if these will help me reach my goal. My current plan is to continue reducing the charge until I begin to get stovepipes. I'll then bump up the load .1gr from there and then begin decreasing COAL until the amount of burnt powder decreases. Does this sound about right? If anyone has experience with 9mm bunnyfart loads I would certainly appreciate your input. No reason for me to reinvent the wheel when many of you surely have explored this territory before.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Thompsoncustom]

Heavy bullet with a fast powder will yeild the lightest recoil. I commonly run a 168gr SWC in front of 2.8grs of aa#2.

Less power = less recoil. But you can keep the pressure up by running a heavier bullet. With bulleyes I would grab some of the x-treme 165 plated 9mm bullets.

You should also be able to make a lot like this run super clean

 

[Walkalong]

N320 is soft shooting and very accurate with that bullet in my gun. Very clean as well. It's too bad that the Competition load did not shoot well. I was able to pick up a four pounder of it at a gun show about three months ago. It is very similar to WST.

 

[Mad Chemist]

Walkalong,
The Competition load shot very well with Raineer 147gr PHP from my G19. But I've been out of those for awhile now. I think I ran them around 2.8-2.9gr and at the same 1.142'' COAL. As far as N320, well maybe I'll try it a few years from now when the powder supply situation improves. I have a little N340 left, but it gets even dirtier when loaded too light.

I think I may just order some heavier bullets like Thompsoncustom suggested. I'm about ready to make a bullet order anyway. I could just piggyback 500 of those heavy bullets onto my regular order. I might stick with 147gr though, since data for the 165s is kind of scarce. I could run some side by side tests of the Competition load vs. Bullseye and see how they match up.

Thanks guys.

 

[lauderdale]

Can I ask you what Model gun Walkalong?

 

[oneounceload]

Heavy bullet with a fast powder will yeild the lightest recoil.

HUH?

LIGHTEST bullet going the slowest it can in the heaviest gun will yield the lowest recoil - simple physics

 

[1SOW]

Using the same pistol at close to the same PF.:
The lightest bullet going slow is done with 'slower powder'.--still, more of a snappy feel
The heavier bullet with fast powder accelerates slower than the light bullet.--more of a push
The "felt" recoil is less with the heavier bullet and fast powder" .
Even the slide moves slower with the heavier bullet. The heavier bullet commonly shoots higher on the target, because it's in the bbl longer.

 

[Mad Chemist]

Oneounceload,

Recoil impulse is not the same as the force of the projectile and it is not directly proportionate with that force either. There are more variables at play including: how the timing of the locking/unlocking mechanism is affected by pressure, min pressure needed for adequate function, the rate of acceleration of the the acceleration of the projectile ie. jerk (jerk = d/dx of acceleration), and total volume of gas generated, just to name a few. Quantifying the problem is a few orders more difficult than a simple force equation.

It is accepted by most experience reloaders as a general rule, that for the same given caliber the heavier bullet with the lighter charge will generate less felt recoil than the corresponding lighter bullet at the min load. It seems counter intuitive until you look a little deeper at the problem. This topic has already been hashed out before in other threads so I'd rather not retread it here.

 

[1911Teacher]

Let's go back to the original question. I have had surgery on both elbows and have found that 3.75 grs Bullseye with 124 gr Bayou Bullets and an OAL of 1.135 in makes an accurate soft shooter.

 

[Mad Chemist]

1911 Teacher,
What model pistol are you using?

 

[1911Teacher]

Mad chemist, I use a S&W pro series 1911 9mm mostly but I also shoot a glock 34, xd9 tactical, and xds in 9mm. BTW, I was a chemistry teacher before retirement.

 

[Walkalong]

Can I ask you what Model gun Walkalong?

Colt Series 80 Enhanced .38 Super with a Storm Lake 9MM barrel and a Red Dot sight, S&W Pro Series 1911, an XDm, and a RRA AR. I switched to the X-Treme 124 Gr HP which shoots a little better with my N320 load.

WST or Competition in .38 Spl or .357 cases with an X-Treme 158 Gr SWC shoots very well.

An EGW over sized FPS fitted to the pistol and given a very slight radius (vs the larger factory radius) will also help felt recoil.

 

[Maj Dad]

The lightest perceived recoil I get with 9x19 is with 148 gr lead RN bullets (for 38 Super I used to have) and any powder. I also shoot 240 and 300 gr bullets in my Ruger SBH 44 mag, and by far the lightest perceived recoil is with the 300 grainers, both using max loads of 296, 2400, or 4227... No concepts or theory, just my actual experience.

I second the EGW FPS - I have them in all my 1911s now.

 

[oldreloader]

3.7 gr Bullseye with MBC 125 gr 9 Cone, IDP#6, SWC, or most any other 125 gr lead will shoot soft enough to drop the empties at my feet.

 

[1911Teacher]

Perhaps a heavier gun with small grips would be a good idea. I do not enjoy shooting a shield or xds or kel-tec in 9mm either. Try a full sized 1911 in 9mm with thin grips.

 

[Mad Chemist]

I'm not going to change guns. I'm just looking for a light load that will be comfy for my wife to occasionally practice with. I want her to be comfortable with the pistol and its manual of arms. This is my carry piece. She already has a Beretta bobcat for a range toy.

I know can get lighter with a lrn bullet, but i prefer to shoot plated due to my indoor range and the leading issues which are much more problematic with 9x19 than with lower pressure and lower velocity cartridges. Don't get me wrong. I shoot lead in my j-frame and my Webley, I and shot quite a bit of it in my 1911 before I sold it. I just don't like lead in 9x19.

 

[Buck13]

Are you willing to change the recoil spring? It would alter the handling of the gun a little, but probably less than a head full of adrenaline...at least all the controls would still be in the same place.

I put a VERY light spring in my 10 mm and loaded some 140 gr lead TC bullets on a 90% load density charge of Trail Boss. That worked GREAT for turning the gun into a powder-puff. Recoiled like a high-velocity .22 and I got lucky: seemed quite accurate from the two mags I shot. I only bought a small sample pack of bullets, so it awaits more testing. Should buy more, but the co-worker I was planning to shoot these with freaked out over all the school shooting hype and doesn't want to play anymore.

I know you said "no lead." Everyone will tell you that Trail Boss doesn't play well with plated, but YMMV, and is X-ring accuracy really a concern here? Also, the load above left very little lead in my gun before I ran out of projectiles. Again, YMMV, and the indoor range lead objection still pertains.

 

[Low Budget Shooter]

We've had success lately with a 95-grain lead bullet over 4.0 grains Bullseye. That load is accurate and soft in both of our 9mms.

 

[LiveLife]

Disclaimer: Following post contains load data not currently published by powder manufacturer. Use the loads at your own risk.

S&W Shield and occasionally a G19.

I'm not going to change guns. I'm just looking for a light load that will be comfy for my wife to occasionally practice with.

I would like to take this load as light as will reliably cycle the pistol.

As others posted, your limiting factor will be the recoil spring rate of your pistols and enough powder charge to reliably cycle the slide.

Since you are ordering bullets, might want to consider Berry's HBRN plated bullets and lower charges of Bullseye or different powder.

While I would suggest 147 gr bullet weight for lighter recoil, I have found Berry's hollow base plated bullets to perform more accurate even at lower powder charges as compared to solid base plated bullets likely due to hollow base expanding better/longer bearing surface for better engagement with rifling.

In this thread, I tested Berry's 124 gr HBRN with Bullseye/Titegroup/W231/HP-38 along with N320/Unique - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7266869#post7266869

Using 1.135" OAL, 3.5 gr Bullseye produced light recoil and 3.8 gr produced mild recoil loads that were accurate and 3.8 gr N320 also produced light recoil.

xtreme 124gr plated RN with 4.4 gr bullseye seated to 1.142'' ... left a lot of unburnt powder on my hands.

I recently tested Berry's HBRN in 115/124 gr with Herco that produced light/mild recoil yet accurate loads in this thread that was relatively clean burning - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=745656

Herco range test results at 10 yards using 1.155" OAL and Glock 22/KKM/Lone Wolf barrels:

115 gr Berry's plated HBRN:

5.2 gr @ 1.155" - 1.40" with very light recoil (failed to cycle the slide)
5.8 gr @ 1.155" - 1.50" with light recoil
6.1 gr @ 1.155" - 1.04" KKM and 1.20" LW (mild recoil)

124 gr Berry's plated HBRN:

5.2 gr @ 1.155" - 1.75" very light recoil (barely cycled the slide)
5.8 gr @ 1.155" - 1.43" light recoil
6.1 gr @ 1.155" - 1.75" mild recoil

5.8 gr Herco loads that produced light recoil may cycle the slides of Shield/G19 but with acceptable level of accuracy for range practice. BTW, the Herco loads burned relatively clean without any unburnt powder in the brass/barrel/hands.

 

[silverbullet86]

I've loaded a ton of 9mm with 4.3 Bullseye - 1.145 OAL and x-treme/Berry's/CamPro 124 gr plated bullets. Accuracy is great. NO issues with unburnt powder. What primers are you using? I use exclusively CCI SPP.

Reliably cycles all my guns.

Hope this helps!

 

[wlkjr]

I've settled on 124gr Xtreme HP with 3.6 grains Titegroup at 1.120 oal for my G17. My wife also likes this in her G19. Since Bullseye is a little faster than Titegroup, I think I'd try around 3.4 grains up in .2 increments until I found one that is accurate.

 

[nix4me]

My G19 likes 4.0 and 4.2gr Bullseye and 124gr X-treme round nose pretty well. Soft shooter.

 

[romer12]

not sure about light loads

but I load all my 9mm cases with 4.5 grains of bullseye. works well in
luger also.
load 38 special with 3.0 grains of bullseye. no problems.

 

[larryh1108]

but I load all my 9mm cases with 4.5 grains of bullseye. works well in
luger also.
load 38 special with 3.0 grains of bullseye. no problems.

but what is your OAL and what size/type of bullet do you use? Very relevent info.