Factory Crimp Dies...Do You Use Them?

[Vern Humphrey]

I use the Lee factory crimp die on three cartridges -- the .357 Mag, the .45 Colt, and the .30-30 Winchester. For the .45 ACP and the .38 Special, I use a taper crimp die to iron out the flare in the case mouth. For other rifle cartridges, I don't crimp at all.

 

[Bad Flynch]

The Lee FCD has had a rough, but successful history. Early on, Speer and Lee got cross-ways of each other over a Speer ad (already mentioned). I remember that ad, and it was a perfect example of carrying something to the point of being ridiculous (reductio ad absurbum.

Many factory cartridges are loaded with bullets which have no crimping cannelure, but they will have a collet-style crimp -- right from the factory. They seem to work just fine. You can, if you are careful, apply a modest collet crimp to a non-cannelured bullet and benefit; it depends on your technique.

Ammo used in tubular magazines can benefit from the FCD. I seldom seat my lead bullets in tight necks, so a very good crimp is needed for ammo to be used in a tubular magazine and the FCD fits that bill exactly. So far, so good on this one.

In selected handgun ammo loading, the FCD and the Redding Profile Crimp die, both, have significantly cut group sizes for me. This is not a fluke and is attested to by others who know about the technique.

The FCD is the hots when loading for the .357 Sig; nothing else will do quite like it, either.

 

[RustyFN]

Yes I use them. But then I'm one of those

remedial reloader whose skills are deficient.
If you can’t produce a decent round without it, then you should look for another hobby.

I still can't figure out how my ammo is accurate and it all goes BOOM.
Rusty

 

[ok41]

whats the difference between factory crimp die and a taper crimp die which I use for straight wall pistol loads

 

[RustyFN]

The factory crimp die has a post sizing ring to size a case in the crimp stage that is a little out of spec. Some people think that just because it has a post sizing ring that everybody that uses it is using it to fix bad ammo. I guess it's not possible for people who like to seat and crimp in seperate steps to use it as just a crimp die.
Rusty

 

[scrat]

yes i use them and i will continue using them. To say that using a FCD is a sign showing how less you know on reloading is ignorance. Bushmaster said it best. When shooting with tubular magazines such as a 30-30 you need to have a firm crimp. This may not be the case in other rifles or handguns. To say that a rifle does not need a crimp is ignorance. The factory crimp die when used correctly gives one of the best crimp on any bullet. No other manufacture can come clost to such a die. Two thumbs up on the FCD.

 

[StrikeEagle]

I use Lee Factory Crimp Dies in both Handgun and Rifle.

About half the rounds I reload for, I use them. They seem to work well for me.

 

[pinkymingeo]

I often do short runs of different bullets in the same caliber. Might, for instance, do 50-100 45's with a 185 JHP, then 200 LSWC's, then 230 LRN's. The 4-die set with the FCD makes changing seating depths and crimp a very fast procedure. Back off the seating and crimp knobs, run a quick test round, and you're in business. Efficient.

 

[koja48]

The LFCD is just a cheap fix for poor reloading techniques.

Really? Reckon I'm just plumb fraught with poor reloading techniques & plain lucky that I produce accurate ammo. After 40 years of reloading, I guess I'll just keep right on crimping . . . roll-crimp on magnum revolver cases, taper on semi-auto rifle, lever-gun, & semi-auto pistol rounds. I use a Lee collett neck-sizer, too for certain applications . . . looks like I can't do anything right.

 

[IDriveB5]

Works well for me - .357MAG and .45ACP

 

[Mr. Chitlin]

No. The LFCD is just a cheap fix for poor reloading techniques.
It’s intended for the remedial reloader whose skills are deficient.
If you can’t produce a decent round without it, then you should look for another hobby.

Wow, great first post, Otto. Welcome to the board, and thanks for the wealth of knowledge that you bring. Looks like you will make LOTS of friends around here...

 

[The Bushmaster]

Hey!! I like him...At least he speaks his mind. Should fit right in here...He could use a little tact though. Sometimes that goes for me too.

 

[benedict1]

I load about 2000 rounds of pistol ammo a month--the Lee FCD removes ALL necessity for trimming cases. Those who tell us that we should trim so we don't get bulged cases and thus avoid having to use this terrible, newbie crutch, the FCD, must really love to trim cases. I am not one of them.

I have zero, Nada, zilch fail-to-feed issues with .45 ACP and 9mm that pass through FCDs. And they sure hit what I'm shooting at, within my limits of ability to hold steady and press the trigger smoothly. I use my old case gauges for paper weights now.

I can see where people don't want to use them because they add an extra step, and I know nothing about rifles--that's the problem with a thread like this--since rifle and pistol often require different approaches and they may not be called for in a particular rifle situation.

And for all the talk about how they destroy accuracy, I have seen no data from anyone on shots from a fixed rest, at targets at a measured distance, and statistically compared to uncrimped rounds. Just opinions, no data.

All this business about "covering up your mistakes" with them is just nonsense. The "mistake" is non-uniform brass length and the crinkling/bulging of a case in the bullet seating die that results when a case is too long. If you shoot mixed pistol brass, you cannot get around it, unless you trim, or use a FCD to post size the round. Or keep the case gauge handy 'cause you're going to be throwing several rounds per hundred into the bullet puller bucket.

Use 'em or not--your preference, but let's keep the facts straight about what it does, how it does it and what benefit accrues

 

[Vern Humphrey]

If you shoot mixed pistol brass, you cannot get around it, unless you trim, or use a FCD to post size the round.

Straight-cased rimless automatic pistol rounds don't grow, they shrink. So if you trim them, you're chasing the lowest common denominator and will soon have cases that won't headspace.

However, I find a taper crimp is ideal for rounds like these -- not an FCD. For revolver rounds, particularly with heavy charges, the FCD is ideal.

 

[Walkalong]

I can see where people don't want to use them because they add an extra step

They eliminate "extra" steps by mashing poor reloads into shape. Who is trying to "skip" steps here.

All this business about "covering up your mistakes" with them is just nonsense. The "mistake" is non-uniform brass length and the crinkling/bulging of a case in the bullet seating die that results when a case is too long

Yes, the mistake you are trying to cover up is non uniform brass. Who is skipping a step here. Revolver brass needs to be uniform, period. Those who wish to skip trimming are skipping steps, not those who do and don't want an "extra step" with the FCD.

Not picking on you in particular benedict1, you just summed up things nicely for the pro FCD crowd. How did we ever get by for all those years without the godsend FCD? I dunno.

Hey!! I like him...At least he speaks his mind. Should fit right in here...He could use a little tact though. Sometimes that goes for me too.

Me too Bushmaster.

 

[Uncle Don]

We got by ok because we didn't have them and didn't know any better. When they came around, many people produced better crimped rounds that have more uniform start pressures. I'm not saying they are perfect for all occasions, but they do have a place. I don't use them all the time, but on those rounds that I do, I have uniform crimps regardless of minor differences in case length, more consistant velocities and have never had to put a round in a case gauge like I hear so many do. I've been at it for awhile, and I'm perfectly capable of setting a standard bullet seating/crimp die properly. I think the factory crimp die give a superior crimp as long as it's not overdone.

The only area in which I would agree with you is that if someone is utilizing the carbide ring in the factory crimp die with each round, then something prior to that was wrong. In my case, the carbide ring in the die is almost never felt, but I still like the crimp of the die better than the standard die (on cases that headspace on the casemouth).

Lastly, it also allows me to use the standard seating/crimping die to adjust bullet depth only since I don't crimp with it. Therefore, when changing bullet weights and styles, I simply adjust the knob and dial in my depth without crimping since it's done with fcd which doesn't ever need to be changed.

To each their own and I respect your opinion, I just don't belive that since you choose not to use them, you should make the assumption that everyone else has reloading deficiencies.

 

[CMcDermott]

I don't use the Lee factory crimp dies, I just prefer the Redding Profile crimp and Lyman "M" expander dies. This gives me a bullet that stays put no matter what the recoil level of the loaded cartridges. I spaced out one loading session and forgot the powder in a few cartridges, when fired the primer went off, and the bullet stayed put. The primer backed out and tied up the cylinder, but the bullet did NOT get out of the case to lock up the cylinder or get stuck in the barrel. So I'm going to keep using what works for me, and pass on the factory crimp dies.

 

[Walkalong]

To each their own and I respect your opinion, I just don't belive that since you choose not to use them, you should make the assumption that everyone else has reloading deficiencies.

I do not assume those who use them have reloading deficiencies. Others have said that and that is going overboard.

The ammo does have deficiencies though when they are relying on the carbide ring to iron it out. Many of the posts are saying just that. They don't feed or fit until they use the FCD. That is a bad thing to me. Like you said though, if the ring is not being utilized, it is not hurting a thing.

I may have not been clear. My big problem with them is their being used to squeeze bad ammo into working. They, like most all crimp dies, crimp just fine, although I much prefer the Redding taper crimp and profile crimp dies.

 

[JA]

I have to go with Otto on this one,if you need a FCD then you need to work on your die adjustment skills.

Bought a FCD for 308 Winchester because of all the hype on the relaoding boards a couple of years ago. I can't tell any difference in function or accuracy between my reloads using the FCD and just the plain old seat/crimp die that came in the Lee die set. But the only rifle chambered for 308 Win I own is a Russian semi auto VEPR rifle and it is not a sub-MOA match rifle.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

if you need a FCD then you need to work on your die adjustment skills.

Kind of like saying, "if you need a gun then you need to work on your bow and arrow skills."

Is this some kind of a manliness competition, where if you use an FCD you aren't a real man?

 

[koja48]

Manly????

As I sit here in my floral-print sun dress ("Does this make my butt look too big?") twisting the ends of my mustache . . . (just kidding . . . it's a camo pattern with cargo pockets & MOLLE accessories) . . .

I use Lee crimp dies because I LIKE them (read: LIKE, not LIKE TO ABUSE!). I DON'T trim pistol brass (the long ones get pitched and I cycle a ton of handgun brass on a regular basis), however, I'm most discriminating about rifle brass -- my Forster trimmer & dial caliper see LOTS of use. I consider myself an overly cautious person in general . . . overly cautious to the Nth degree regarding firearms & reloading, in particular. I, too have opinions, I've just usually made it a point to NOT belittle others over theirs. 'Nuff said . . . I have to go put-on my makeup and then FINISH ROLL-CRIMPING SOME .41 MAG ROUNDS (which happen to LIKE a substantial crimp!)! Constructive criticism = good;
Destructive criticism = Bad (and those spewing such ill-will should be: a] perfect, b] ashamed.). Finis.

 

[Lucky]

I've got them but I can't tell how far down the neck you are supposed to crimp them?

 

[Bluehawk]

I use the FCD for my .45-70 and .458 Win Mag...all others I use either a taper or roll crimp for pistol and revolver. I certainly do crimp .30-06 for my M-1 Garand!
My Marlin 1895SS with cast lead bullets group sub-MOA so I don't think the FCD affects accuracy unless it's improving it!!!!!!

 

[gezzer]

Not for nothing but bullets are made without when they are swaged. The canular is put on after swaging. Using this info then all bullets with canulars are damaged same as using the FCD. NOT

 

[7.62x54r]

yes