Speer Bullets and Lee Factory Crimp Die

[fmnnc]

What is this groups take on the following statement:

Speer recommends against using the Factory Crimp Die with their bullets due to the fact that a heavy crimp can deform the jacket and supposedly affect accuracy. Lee instructions echo that recommendation. Keep in mind, however, that Speer is owned by Blount, the parent company of RCBS. This recommendation may have a "sour grapes" motivation.

Has anyone loaded Speer bullets with the Lee Factory Crimp Die?...successfully?

 

[SSN Vet]

just because you use a FCD doesn't mean you have to dial it all the way down and reef on it.....

adjust the crimp as you see fit

 

[Ol` Joe]

I believe Speer is against useing them on smooth walled non-groved bullets, not bullets with a crimp grove. Personally I don`t like the idea of doing anything to my ammo that could damage the bullet or risk its core/jacket integrity. I may be mistaken though, won`t be the 1st time.

 

[jfh]

I've been using the Lee FCD with the .356 GDSB135-gr JHP bullets

And have noticed NO ill effects. That's in both 38 Spl and 357 Magnum loads. However, these rounds are for PD practice, and only nominal accuracy has been sought. I do crimp about mid-cannelure. The FCD is set up to do a moderate crimp, and no 'sizing' has been done.

I have no trouble getting 1" to 1 & 1/4" groups at 10 or 15 yards from my two 2"-barreled revolvers. I have not tested them for HP performance characteristics, however--e.g., expanded size, percentage retention.

Jim H.

 

[Pumpkinheaver]

Lee and speer got in a nasty ad war back when the factory crimp die first came out. Much as there are still bomb craters in vietnam, these statments are leftovers from that ad war. It's not that the die doesn't work with speer bullets, lee just doesn't want you to use speer bullets as they are the same company as RCBS.

 

[Hoosier Reloader]

.223 cal experience. I bought Speer bullets once because Midway & my local dealers were out of my favorites. I had to back off the FCD because the Speer bullets have a thinner skin than what I'd call 'normal'. The Speer bullets shot ok, but I haven't bought any since then.

 

[The Bushmaster]

I've been using a FCD on my Speer 170 grain FNSP for my .30-30 for years and that Winchester mod 94 is grouping 3 shots inside a 3" dot at 100 yards. I see no problem with Speer and Lee's FCD as long as you don't try to "weld" the case to the bullet. A firm crimp is all that is needed and it won't distort the bullet. Speer uses a thinner jacket then other companies and that's their concern when crimping...

 

[308win]

I am a skeptic on crimping rifle ammunition. (I have never reloaded for use in a tubular magazine gun so can't speak to that.) I have tried both and see no noticable improvement in accuracy with a crimp.

 

[jwr_747]

like already stated,this war started long ago.I think at one time Lee tore down some Speer factory ammo and the bullets had the grove left by the factory crimp.true it wasn't a Lee die that did it,but it left the same crimp mark.besides,most bullet makers,including Speer, say the bullet accuracy is more determined by the bullet base being un damaged. jwr

 

[rbernie]

I use a FCD on all sorts of bullets from all sorts of manufacturers for all sorts of rifle and pistol chamberings, regardless of the presence/absence of a cannelure. They all shoot just fine.

My accuracy tests did not demonstrate a significant difference in accuracy with/without the crimp, but IN GENERAL my five-shot 100 yard groups were a wee bit tighter with the crimp than without. I can't speak to how these loads would diverge at longer distances.

 

[trueblue1776]

I shoot pretty much every bullet line Speer makes, except the Grand Slam. I use a Lee FCD on all of them except straight walled pistol rounds. My accuracy improves with a heavy crimp using any bullet, Speer is no exception.

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

I use the Lee FCD on all my rounds, but I don't squeeze the guts out of a round when I crimp 'em. Speer makes good slugs IMO.

 

[fmnnc]

Thanks for the input! Sounds like I'm good to go. Glad to hear it as I recently purchased 400 Speer bullets. I'll take the advise of not putting a "gorrilla grip" on the crimp. Think I'll try a few without crimping as well just to see if i can detect a difference.

Thanks again for the input

 

[pinkymingeo]

I crimp enough to indent the jacket all the time, with no ill effects. Several of my lightweight revolvers need a heavy crimp to prevent the bullets' backing out. I've always wondered about crimping warnings anyway, except for plated bullets. When the bullet engages the rifling at several hundred fps, deep spiraling grooves are created in the jacket. How can that be OK, while a shallow groove around the circumference isn't?

 

[Ol` Joe]

From Speers web site. http://www.speer-bullets.com/default.asp?s1=5&s2=30

Q.
I bought a reloading die set and there’s a note with the dies that says something like, “Speer does not recommend using their bullets with these dies.” What’s the deal?

A.
Speer never made such a broad recommendation. Speer’s recommendation is: Do not apply a crimp to any bullet that does not have a crimp groove. The die company in question markets a die to produce a “factory crimp” and recommends it be used on any bullet. Speer’s tests, and those by another bullet maker and an independent gun writer, show that crimping a bullet that doesn’t have a crimp groove degrades group size by an average of 40 percent. Other than the crimp die, we have no problem with our bullets in that firm’s dies, although our preference is for RCBS® products.
We express ours thanks to the die maker for allowing us to make contact with so many new SPEER customers.

 

[pinkymingeo]

Speer's talking rifle bullets. I only load straight wall pistol, where everything is crimped, be it roll or taper. Gotta admit, though, I'm such a crummy shot that even if pistol groups opened up 40%, which I sincerely doubt, I wouldn't know the difference.

 

[steve4102]

Yup, Speer and Lee got into a pissing match several years ago. As Ol Joe posted Speer claims a 40% reduction in accuracy. This is nothing but pure BS. I use the LFCD on Nosler, Speer, Sierra and Hornady. Most without a cannelure and accuracy has never once been reduced let alone a 40% reduction. The folks at Speer need to grow up and put this Hatfield and McCoy feud to rest.

 

[jacobhh]

I agree, but it's both of them. Lee's still taking his old shot at
RCBS/Speer in his 2007 printing.

The problem is it's not info, it's self serving propaganda.

 

[Nortonics]

Lee and speer got in a nasty ad war back when the factory crimp die first came out. Much as there are still bomb craters in vietnam, these statments are leftovers from that ad war. It's not that the die doesn't work with speer bullets, lee just doesn't want you to use speer bullets as they are the same company as RCBS.

like already stated,this war started long ago.I think at one time Lee tore down some Speer factory ammo and the bullets had the grove left by the factory crimp.true it wasn't a Lee die that did it,but it left the same crimp mark.besides,most bullet makers,including Speer, say the bullet accuracy is more determined by the bullet base being un damaged.

Yup, Speer and Lee got into a pissing match several years ago. As Ol Joe posted Speer claims a 40% reduction in accuracy. This is nothing but pure BS. I use the LFCD on Nosler, Speer, Sierra and Hornady. Most without a cannelure and accuracy has never once been reduced let alone a 40% reduction. The folks at Speer need to grow up and put this Hatfield and McCoy feud to rest.

I agree, but it's both of them. Lee's still taking his old shot at
RCBS/Speer in his 2007 printing.

The problem is it's not info, it's self serving propaganda.

DING DING DING!!!

Give these men a cookie as they all hit it right on the head.

 

[res45]

Speer .311 150 Gr bullets no cannelure crimped with Lee FCD shot in a YUGO SKS. I also use it with my Mosin M44 with great results.

 

[Wildfire]

Crimps

Hi guys. Man I must be the only one that does not use Lee loading products.
Most all of my rifles are bolt guns, and I would never crimp a round. Levers yes. But I would use a bullet that had the Groove.
The Varmint rounds I use probably would not like a crimp and the PSI would come up so I have never done this. Handguns yes. But no rifle rounds.
Again most of mine are set up for Long range target or Varmint. With out causing a rucus by asking , Why is everyone useing Lee loaders? Cost ?
Or am I just out of touch ? All I use are RCBS and Dillions.

 

[jfh]

I think there is a selection process going on

for answering threads like this, Wildfire. Since fmnnc asked a question about the Lee FCD, users of that die chimed in, and others with knowledge of the 'war' between Speer and Lee added their comments. Since many RCBS and Dillon users don't use Lee dies, they didn't have anything to add to the conversation.

We generally try not to have blue-red, red-green, (or whatever) 'forum wars' here.

Jim H.

 

[Wildfire]

Sorry

Sorry about that. Point was I never crimp rifle rounds.