FACTORY NEW Federal 130gr Power Shok Primer popped loose! PICS ADDED.

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777funk

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I was able to check out a .270 and .270WSM over the weekend. Maybe my shoulder is getting weaker or I'm just a wimp but with warm weather and only a thin shirt on, my shoulder was a little sore. So... not sure .270 is for me. Maybe a limbsaver would make bench shooting a little more enjoyable. Or maybe a .243 or .308 would be a better bench/deer rifle for my taste.

Anyways, the point of the thread... I couldn't believe this!! A BRAND NEW Federal 130gr Power Shok like what you see here:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/41...270-winchester-130-grain-soft-point-box-of-20

Popped the primer right out of the pocket! I ejected the shell and noticed a primer hitting the table with the case. This is a brand new box and they were NOT home reloads so you wouldn't think they were overcharged... no?

I inspected the case and it's a little oblong at the primer pocket. Also the primer won't stay put if I put it back in. It's so loose that I can easily drop it right back in (no finger pressure). Is this normal? I've never had this happen before with factory loads.
 
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I have never experienced what you described. Full disclosure: I have not shot any factory ammo in quite sometime. Perhaps the ammo shortage and an increase in production has resulted in poor quality control. Just a guess.
 
I had the exact same thing happen to me with my 270, but I was using Winchester Power Max when it happened.
 
That's what I thought kerreckt. I had a Sporterized Mosin Nagant as my deer gun for about 5 years before selling it a couple years back and never once had a surplus or brass cased ammo exhibit this problem. I grew up shooting 30/30 and .35Rem lever guns for deer season and never had this happen in them. Of course those are no where near the velocity of a .270... but all that to say this is a new one to me. I only fired 6 rounds so I don't know what the rest of the box is like but 1 of 6 did this. This was out of a Savage 110E bolt gun (I'd guess circa 1980's). I checked the headspacing and I could close the bolt on 2 pieces of masking tape (barely) and it definitely made an impression on even just 1 piece (I could see the tape was embossed into the headstamp and primer surround with even 1 piece of tape) for what that's worth.
 
send an e-mail to Federal along with the lot number. they should replace the ammo for you. they have done that for with some Automatch ammo I was having trouble with.
 
Automatch... hmm... I've used that in .22LR. Worked great. Actually I almost ALWAYS use Federal when I buy .22's. NEVER Once had a primer pop loose on any of those Federal 22LR I've shot:D Ok sorry... lol

Just kidding, but seriously, when you did get the replacement did it give you any grief or was the primer popping loose just a one time event in your case?
 
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I'm talking Federal automatch 22 ammo here. Federal asked me how many boxes of the 22 ammo I had. I told them I had 2 boxes of that particular lot number and they sent me 4 boxes of replacement that worked just fine. they told me to get rid of the bad ammo so I gave it to the state patrol to destroy
 
thanks steveno... I was thinking maybe there was another automatch besides .22LR. Obviously you had a different type problem. Anyways, glad they stand behind their product.

I just checked the 6 spent cases again and ALL 6 do have a light mark from the ejector pin void area. It looks as if you took a 1/8" punch and a hammer and lightly tapped the brass then inverted the punch mark (it actually is raised compared to the brass (not much there but it's there-almost just a polished look or a VERY VERY light impression) but it's there and on all 6. I never realized this ejector mark was a raised mark. I always thought ejector marks were recessed like a punch would do. But if you run your thumb nail over it, it's definitely above the surface.

Also, on the remaining unfired rounds, the primer doesn't fall out when tapped on a table but it doesn't look SUPER tight either. The fillet on the primers is a large radius compared to others and is low into the primer pocket. See the picture comparing these to a Remington and a Winchester (in the first picture). They have some type of sealer on the primer area (blue) that you'd usually see on surplus rounds.

The primers on the spent cases are flat and flush with the case all the way across. This is somewhat normal.

One case has a Dimpled primer as you can see in the middle picture. This gives me the impression that the pressure must have pushed the firing pin indentation part of the way back out.

interesting findings the closer I looked at these... I didn't pay as much attention when I was at the bench (in a hurry because I had to be somewhere and wasn't initially concerned because it was factory produced ammo).
 

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How old is the ammunition? Another poster was blowing primers with 20 year old factory Remington and he called and was told that Remington considers the shelf life of ammunition to be 10 years.

Remington 700 Overpressure with 20 year old factory ammunition

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=527519

Pressures rise in ammunition stored in hot temperatures. Ammunition stored at temperatures above 125 F has a lifetime in terms of months, ammunition stored at temperatures above 150 F weeks to days. The Army had pressure problems with 223 ammunition conditioned at 160 F and fired in SAWS at 160 F, the Army blamed it all on oil in the chamber, but the fact of the matter, according to their paper, ammunition that should have averaged 55,000 psia was averaging 72,000 psia, which meant that the occasional 90,000 psia round happened.

If the ammunition was absolutely new from the store, then a third alternative is that SSSS happens. The 270 Win is a hot round and you may have a tight barrel. I have had perfectly safe ammunition in Douglas barrels blow primers in Kreiger barrels.
 
Just bought it yesterday (Walmart). Also, the barrel is pretty old and I'd guess has had a lot of rounds through it. When this happened, I took the bolt out and looked through the barrel to make sure there wasn't something major going on. I could see pits in the rifling. I also noticed this when I cleaned the bore before shooting. If anything I'd guess the bore would be loose from use... but not sure there of course.

EDIT: I figured this would be the case, but just incase, I just put a calipers on these projectiles and they measure .277-.278 just like the others pictured in the first picture comparison (Rem-Peters, and Win brand) where I compare the primers between the two. To my eyes (without popping out one of the live primers) I wonder if maybe the primer fit is just loose to begin with... but then again, that wouldn't explain the raised marks from the hole where the ejector pin lives. To me that says high pressure.
 
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I'm sorry you're having problems and I have no idea what it could be but since this is factory ammo instead of handloaded this really should be in the ammo section just so no one gets confused.

Please keep us updated on that Federal does about this problem.
 
Arch, good point... I posted it here because I figured the reloading crowd would have much more experience and familiarity with these types problems than anyone else and I'd get a better answer based on that.
 
The raised "mesas" at the ejector point means the pressure is high enough that the brass is flowing into the bolt face ejector holes. That is a sure sign of serious over-pressure issues, which would typically loosten the primer pockets on firing too.

Just out of curiosity, any recent experience with a different mfgr recent production factory ammunition in the same rifle? My speculation is the pitted bore (and throat?) is creating an overpressure situation.
 
From another site on reloading:

"Finally, watch for flattened primers, cratered primers and especially extrusion of the case head into the ejector pin hole in your reloads; these are all indications of unacceptable pressure."
 
How fast were you shooting? Did you let the suspect round "cook" in a hot chamber?
In your photo, some of the rounds showed possible signs of pressure some didn't.
 
I shot six cartridges only with about a minute between the first three and about ten minutes between the first batch of three and the second three.

I used to have a Mosin Nagant and I'd say this bore isn't as pitted as that bore and I never had an issue with that gun or any ammo fired through it.
 
Otto said:
Did you let the suspect round "cook" in a hot chamber?
Click to expand...


777funk said:
I shot six cartridges only with about a minute between the first three and about ten minutes between the first batch of three and the second three.
Click to expand...

What Otto is asking is, did you chamber any of these rounds in a warm/hot chamber and let them sit(cook-off) for any length of time before firing them?
 
Federal has soft brass also Savage has been famous for dished bolt faces. With the dish and soft brass situation it screams loose pockets. Also with the possible pressure increas from an abrasive bore and possible Q.C. issues from Federal it makes for one heck of a situation.
 
As rodregier mentioned, the extruded brass into the ejector hole is a red flag for high pressure, and you need to contact the manufacturer with the lot numbers to see if there is a possible problem with the ammo itself.
I would check the ammo first, but that does not absolve the rifle of blame either. We just don't know enough at this stage.
If recoil of the 270 is a bit much, choosing a 308 will not solve that problem, but there is "managed recoil" ammo available that tames the 270 and other calibers, and can still work for deer.


NCsmitty
 
I built a managed recoil loading in .308 Win for an BLR (Lightweight),
modelled after a Hornady offering. 130g @ 2700 ft/sec using H4895 powder.
Much nicer to shoot that the regular factory .308 or milspec 7.62 NATO loadings.
 
I understand what he's asking now... sorry! And to answer your question, there was no cooking going on. I usually shoot one at a time and I take my time.

For hunting, I don't think even a 300WM would be a problem, but I can't say I enjoyed this recoil for a relaxing day of target shooting. I'd think after a box of 20, I'd have a good amount of sore shoulder syndrom for the next day or so.

Federal tells me that this can be the norm for Savage and that their brass is soft. I don't really like that answer (never seen this before so I'm a bit concerned). Actually the first thing they asked was if this was in a Savage.
 
I would be skeptical about that reply from Federal. do you have access to another rifle in that caliber to see if the cases look the same?
 
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