Kevin Rohrer
Member
Just one of several reasons why that round is called the Punibellum. 
Failure to eject with my reloads today
- Thread starter Stefan A
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PWC
Member
Stronger ejector spring to tip the round out more briskly or maybe a stronger main spring to slow down the slide. IMHO, it appears to be a timing issue.
I asked earlier whether the cart fed into the extractor from the mag and you never replied if it did or not. As stated earlier, letting the xtractor snap over the cart rim will eventually damage the xtractor in a gun with a non-spring loaded xtractor.
I don't have a Glock, so maybe a call to Glock?
I asked earlier whether the cart fed into the extractor from the mag and you never replied if it did or not. As stated earlier, letting the xtractor snap over the cart rim will eventually damage the xtractor in a gun with a non-spring loaded xtractor.
I don't have a Glock, so maybe a call to Glock?
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Stefan A
Member
PWC
Member
Normally, as the slide goes forward, the mag spring pushes the cart up the face of the slide with the rim sliding under the xtractor hook and on into the chamber. If the cart is not caught by the hook, when the slide goes into battery the hook snaps over the rim. If the xtractor hook is fixed, not spring loaded, the hook will eventually be deformed and break.
Function the slide slowly, by hand, and watch the round as it's picked up by the slide.
Did the problem of the brass to face just start, or has it always done so? Is the gun new or 2nd hand to you? If not new, you don't know how many rounds have gone thru it, and the mainspring may have weakened.
Function the slide slowly, by hand, and watch the round as it's picked up by the slide.
Did the problem of the brass to face just start, or has it always done so? Is the gun new or 2nd hand to you? If not new, you don't know how many rounds have gone thru it, and the mainspring may have weakened.
PWC
Member
Forgot to add, if the xtractor isn't fully hooking the rim, on a fired case, it may not extract, eventhough it wil xtract an unfired/dummy round.
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Stefan A
Member
Oh - I see what you're saying. So, when I move the slide very slowly, the rim does not get hooked into the exctractor. Then it pops in when I push it into battery. When I go a bit faster, it does. Both my glock 19 and 17 function in this way. So, I think that's fine.
mrawesome22-250
Member
Brass to face is common with wimpy loads. Failure to eject is common with wimpy loads.
Full strength loads with a slower powder will have the gun running normally with all the brass 6 feet away at 3 oclock.
Full strength loads with a slower powder will have the gun running normally with all the brass 6 feet away at 3 oclock.
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Stefan A
Member
My Glocks have always had brass to the face and in fact it one of the biggest complaints about Glocks. Factory rounds do the same thing. But I am willing to try a slower powder. What do you recommend?
mrawesome22-250
Member
Factory practice ammo is very whimpy also. Hence, the brass to face.
I use BE-86, but they're are lots of choices. Anything that takes a larger charge weight is a slower burning powder. BE-86, HS-6, AA#5, AA#7, Power Pistol, WSF... lots of options.
ZIP is extemely fast burning compared to any of the choices above.
I use BE-86, but they're are lots of choices. Anything that takes a larger charge weight is a slower burning powder. BE-86, HS-6, AA#5, AA#7, Power Pistol, WSF... lots of options.
ZIP is extemely fast burning compared to any of the choices above.
PWC
Member
Stefan - just for grins and giggles, do you shoot left handed? Ejection port on the guns right, in the left hand might dump cases closer to the head than a right hand... inquiring minds want to know...LOL
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Stefan A
Member
11MikeMike
Member
Silhouette, true blue, IMR blue, 572. All (full house) work great in a G19.
call1911
Member
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2020
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- 135
Been there, done that.
I started shooting and reloading at the same time and ran in that problem.
Despite everyone said N320 is THE powder to go for the 9 Para I had nothing but problems with a new Steyr L9-A1.
(It worked fine with CZ75 or other steel guns but all in all not well in polymer pistols).
So I changed to N340 and everything ran smooth from then on.
So my guess would be a more progressive powder instead of the more offensive you are using.
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Stefan A
Member
Thought I would follow up. Got some N340 and loaded 10 rounds at the starting load of 5 grains. Made the OAL between 1.14-1.145 which is near the shortest allowable according to the Lee manual. All 10 fired flawlessly. So, I'll build it up and see what happens. Thanks again.
It seems like after you cleaned the schmutz out everything worked good. I have a question for you. Have you fired any laquered steel cased ammo? I have an experience with russian green steel cased ammo in a mini 14. Where the gun got hot and left a sticky residue in the chamber and started causing the cases to stick and one case became seriously stuck. I had to scrub the chamber and switch to brass only and have had no problems since. The same thing happened with a friend's bushmaster but with pmc brass. And he sent it back to the factory and all they had to do was polish the chamber and it's been fine ever since. I've seen other people fire hundreds of rounds of steel cased ammo with no problems. So this I just a guess.
NMexJim
Member
So, looking back on it, what do you think was the main problem?
And, thanks for the follow-up
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Stefan A
Member
I think it was my reload. The gun had performed flawlessly up to that point, other than BIF. So, I guess it was the Ram Zip I was using. Although, my p365 never had any problems with my ram zip reloads.
rfwobbly
Member
Stefan -
I see lots of honest effort on your part, and I understand what to you must be very frustrating. However, I don't see much definitive information. Said another way, some of reloading is Art, and some of it is Science. The Art part you are allowed to use your experience, notes and guess work, but the Science part has to be supported by hard, decisive, repeatable measurements.
After scanning this entire thread, I see where you are tweaking your die adjustments, but I don't see any numbers. What you MUST understand is that some of the dimensions within the chamber are smaller than the diameter of a human hair. So you can't simply be twisting dies willy-nilly and expect anything good to come of it. Die adjustments must be made with the care of a watch maker. And the results of any adjustments must then be measured with the exactness of a rocket scientist.
For many reasons there is an EXACT sequence of measurement you must follow to solve your issue....
#1 Your bullets must measure 0.356 to 0.357 inches. In the rush to make bullets this last year, many good bullet makers are sending out under-sized bullets. Don't measure just 1 bullet. Measure 20 bullets.
#2 Your Taper Crimp (measured at the case mouth) on 10 production cartridges (case + bullet) MUST measure between 0.377 to 0.379 inches. TC diameter will vary with case length, and all cases vary in length, so it does no good to measure just 1 case. This is a VERY tedious adjustment and may take 30 minutes. Complicating the issue is the fact brass does not like to move less than 0.002". So for each adjustment-measurement sequence you need to start with another batch of brass. Once you have your TC die delivering cartridges within that diameter range, lock it down and don't ever move it again.
Taper Crimp being measured at the case mouth
#3 Your OAL is too long. 9mm bullets need to engage the case in the range of 0.200 to 0.250". You can do the math using the bullet and case length, but 115gr bullets are very short and so I load mine at an OAL of 1.120" +/-0.003. Shortening up the case engagement will get your bullet out of the lands, increase the chamber pressure, and hold the bullet for an instant longer before launching. The 1.120" is again a measurement taken on the average of 10 production cartridges.
#4 Powder weights. The best practice with powder is first fill the hopper at least 1/3 full. Then do not use the first 10 "drops" and allow the measure to "settle in". Then, finally to average the weight of multiple drops. That is to say, starting after the 11th powder drop, if you desire 4.6gr, then 10 drops should weigh in at 46.0gr. The closer you can get to 46.0gr the better your ammo will be.
TAKE NOTE that all this dimension gathering depends upon multiple measurements. This is a modern manufacturing technique. Variations abound in every component, thus to take a single measurement as "the truth" is asking for big trouble.
I really, really believe your issue's fault lies in a shadowy mix, somewhere between poor components and less than optimal reloading procedure. Not your fault. You've not had time, training or reason to "bump up your game". Now you have the time and the need, and it can be a great learning experience. And your ammo can only improve. Best wishes for your success.
Hope this helps.
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Stefan A
Member
Thanks Rtwobbly. This is exactly the kind of things I need to hear. I just went and measured 20 bullets and I got mostly .3575. A couple .357 and .3565. Everglade copper plated bullets. I understand what you're saying about just turning dies willy nilly. There's no measurements/clicks on the dials, so I am just guessing about how much to turn. But the main issue is that my results seem to be inconsistent. For example, before loading any round, I probably go through at least 20 powder weight tests. I cannot repeat 20 pulls of 5 grains. I don't know if it's the scale, or the auto drum powder measure, but I'll get a couple 5.1 or 4.9 in there. The width at the case mouth varies more than 0.377 to 0.379. I get those measurements, but a few are a bit higher or lower. My point is, I am not seeing the level of consistency in my measurements to be able to make definitive statements about the results.
BTW, my the OAL I am using is near the minimum recommended by my manual. My manual does not say to go as short as what you're saying. Maybe this is the art part?
Stefan
BTW, my the OAL I am using is near the minimum recommended by my manual. My manual does not say to go as short as what you're saying. Maybe this is the art part?
Stefan
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Stefan A
Member
Here's another thing - I used your photo as an example of how to properly measure the case mouth. But I can get anywhere between .375 - .380 depending on slight pressure changes in my thumb while holding the wheel of the calipers.
Otto
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Why?
Jim Watson
Member
Yeah, I have never been able to get a consistent measurement at the case mouth, either.
30 minutes to get an arbitrary reading?
Which must make Federal, Fiocchi, and me wrong, at 1.156, 1.143, and 1.151" respectively.
True, the factories are loading clean bullets in clean, springy, new brass.
I make up for that with an undersize sizing die that provides lots of neck tension.
Now, that is for the rather pointed FMJ with no bearing surface outside the case.
If you are loading another shape, it is back to the plunk test because bullet profiles and chamber throats vary so much. A lot of people find this terribly confusing because they cannot load their Brand X bullets to the same "recipe" as the book shows for Major Big Company bullets.
To quote a usually reliable source (Me!) "Once upon a time, AA data carried a warning that below maximum fast burning powders like N0 2 might not cycle European automatics.
Do you have another powder that would let you use 5-7 grains?"
30 minutes to get an arbitrary reading?
Which must make Federal, Fiocchi, and me wrong, at 1.156, 1.143, and 1.151" respectively.
True, the factories are loading clean bullets in clean, springy, new brass.
I make up for that with an undersize sizing die that provides lots of neck tension.
Now, that is for the rather pointed FMJ with no bearing surface outside the case.
If you are loading another shape, it is back to the plunk test because bullet profiles and chamber throats vary so much. A lot of people find this terribly confusing because they cannot load their Brand X bullets to the same "recipe" as the book shows for Major Big Company bullets.
To quote a usually reliable source (Me!) "Once upon a time, AA data carried a warning that below maximum fast burning powders like N0 2 might not cycle European automatics.
Do you have another powder that would let you use 5-7 grains?"
ballman6711
Member
Try setting your calipers at .377 and lock at that measurement. Then slide them down the bullet and over your taper crimp. This will eliminate varying pressure from your finger.
You can adjust your calipers up or down .001 at a time until you find your exact crimp.
Hope this helps.
chris
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Stefan A
Member
[QUOTE="To quote a usually reliable source (Me!) "Once upon a time, AA data carried a warning that below maximum fast burning powders like N0 2 might not cycle European automatics.
Do you have another powder that would let you use 5-7 grains?"[/QUOTE]
No, just the ram zip and the n340
Do you have another powder that would let you use 5-7 grains?"[/QUOTE]
No, just the ram zip and the n340
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