Failure to load or failure to fire?

[allank]

I did my first club practice USPSA event this week and have a question related to failure to load (FTL) or failure to fire (FTF).

In the excitement of reloading I failed to properly seat the magazine., so when I racked the slide no cartridge was stripped from the magazine. Therefore when I pulled the trigger I only got a click and not a bang! This is where I maybe went wrong. I automatically assumed it was a FTL, immediately racked the slide again, and pulled the trigger. On this second failure I pulled the slide back and visually noticed that there was no cartridge in the chamber, realized the magazine was not correctly inserted etc, and fixed the problem.

What should I have done instead?

1) If this was paper target shooting I think I should assume it is a FTF and proceed accordingly (wait, etc).

2) For USPSA although the time pressure would suggest handling as FTL from a safety standpoint FTF might be the better choice? Of course now this has happened to me I know to also check that the magazine was fully inserted.

3) In a personal defense situation I would always assume FTL and rack the slide as not firing has potentially more serious consequences than a FTF.

Comments?

 

[earplug]

I have always read and been taught the Tap (Magazine) and Rack (Slide) malfunction correction.
This cures most ills on a pistol. Not tapping the magazine first will make racking the slide a wasted motion if the mag is not seated.

 

[1SOW]

Tap, Rack Slide..

On "Load and make ready" you want to be SURE the mag is firmly seated. On Mag changes always do a really firm insert. Avoid running your mags dry, change mags while moving.

Actually, it's a good idea to actually practice the TRS while you're practicing your mag changes. It shouldn't happen often, but it will happen.

On my and many other CZs, if you run it dry and do a really firm slam, the slide is lifted just a little, but enough to release it from the slide lock and chamber the round.

This gives me a pretty fast reload when the slide is locked back.

 

[benderx4]

Opposite problem: I found that with the mags that came shipped with my Les Baer, the first round comes flying out of the ejection port when I seat the mag too vigorously. Kind of embarrassing. The Wilson 47D mags I have since bought don't have this problem.

Whereas on my HKs, a very firm mag insert will actually release the slide, chambering a round, and saving me the time of sling-shotting the slide myself. Very cool .....

 

[Oro]

Tap-Rack-Bang is what I have been taught and practice.

Here is a video of Clint Smith from Gunsite going through it. I try to practice this once in a while so it's automatic. I need to do so more often. Nice reminder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfyULpEhmug

 

[Oro]

oops.

 

[allank]

Thanks guys - I learned something new today. I am a new shooter so am still learning skills.

Oro - huge thanks. That video was not only instructive but funny. I'll get the other new shooters in my family to watch it too.

 

[Thomas Garrett]

Very informative video.

 

[hardluk1]

allank I don't shoot much anymore at the matchs but had a friend give me a hard time for running my gun empty. Think about that. Most stages take what 32 rounds. And not knowing what you shoot but try to change mags between shooting positions while moveing ,before pistol is empty, change on the fly. You may have to count rounds as you go or just count during the walk thru to know where to change mags. That way gun is still chambered and no racking or reless is needed. Just remeber to pick your pistol up after mag release and turn 45* sideways so you can see your pistol and besure you get go follow thru on mag changes. Hit the mag a second time if need be till you get the change smoothed out. Make sents?? The video is good for falure to chamber or a stovepipe but thats not something you can control get to that point. . Watch others and you will see many drop mags with maybe several rounds still in them just to change at a batter place during the run.

 

[Zak Smith]

1. T-R-B

2. If stovepipe, swipe empty case off front to back. Be sure to not sweep your hand with the muzzle.

3. If double feed (#1 won't do anything): lock slide back, rip out magazine, rack slide twice, insert new magazine, rack, continue

The "Wait 30 seconds" on FTF routine really has no place in defensive firearm training. You aren't going to train to wait 30 seconds.

 

[mljdeckard]

Clint Smith has an amusing description of what he sees when there's a jam on the range. All of a sudden, all the guys standing around become a bunch of Rhodes Scholars, experts on what's wrong. The correct answer is to train as if your life depended on it, meaning, try to make your natural response to a malfunction what you will do when you are fighting for your life. You need to make it fire as soon as possible. Zak's instructions above are exactly what I would recommend. We all need to try to make this instinctive. As soon as you hear 'click' instead of 'bang', the clock is ticking, you have to shoot before the bad guy realizes you are in trouble and shoots you first.

When I was in training to become a tank crewman at Ft. Knox.......many years ago, I was instructed that the first thing you do when your coaxial machine gun (the M240 next to your ear that aims where the main gun is) fails to fire, you immediatly yell: "STOPPAGE!!". The idea is, the commander needs to know that you aren't scratching your butt, you are fixing something. I didn't get this at first. When I hit a (simulated) stoppage, my reaction was to start a conversation, giggle, fumble with the controls, give a blank stare,.....the trainer pulled me aside and told me that when the weapon did not fire, if my reaction was to yell anything but "STOPPAGE!!", I would miss Christmas leave. He followed me around the motorpool, and when I wan't expecting it, he would whisper in my ear; "weapon does not fire." to make me yell "STOPPAGE!!" across the motorpool. I got it by the time I left.

 

[Ghost Walker]

Try to think of it this way: If you pull the trigger on a semiautomatic pistol and it doesn't go, 'bang' then immediately look at the top of the slide. If - IF - you don't see anything unusual, THEN, perform the: 'tap, rack, bang' drill.

The reason, 'Why'? Because if you've just experienced one of the other types of stoppage, you'll be able to see it, and will know to immediately back off the magazine, clear the weapon, and return the slide to battery.

After many years of doing this, the above method(s) is the fastest way I know to keep a pistol in the fight, and yourself from fumbling around while losing precious seconds!

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

In the excitement of reloading I failed to properly seat the magazine., so when I racked the slide no cartridge was stripped from the magazine. Therefore when I pulled the trigger I only got a click and not a bang! This is where I maybe went wrong. I automatically assumed it was a FTL, immediately racked the slide again, and pulled the trigger. On this second failure I pulled the slide back and visually noticed that there was no cartridge in the chamber, realized the magazine was not correctly inserted etc, and fixed the problem.

What should I have done instead?

Not spend time visually diagnosing the problem. Even in a competition it cost you valuable time, and in a real gunfight those fractions of a second are even more critical. Had it been dark, it would have been impossible. Instead, train yourself in standard malfunction clearance procedures, in this case "tap/rack/bang," as it is popularly called.* In this case the "tap" - striking the bottom of the magazine to force it into the gun - would have cured your problem without your having to stop and analyze what happened.



* I dislike "tap/rack/bang," as actually firing the gun should not be a reflexive or automatic action, as the "tap/rack" is.

 

[Ghost Walker]

Anyone firing a gun in darkness that's so black he can't see the top of the slide ...... should be using a knife instead of a gun - Right!

 

[CTGunner]

Excellent video. Thank you.