Fairbairn-Sykes

[Soap]

Ever since my wife bought me a Ka-Bar I've been wanting to start collecting classic military pattern knives. So #2 in the collection is a Fairbairn-Sykes by Lewis International. What do you all think of this pattern? Of course it has obvious weaknesses, the main one being fragility. But it seems to me that an ultra-light blade like this could have some advantages in a fight and many in sneaky WWII style sentry removal. But frankly, I've read Kill or Get Killed by Applegate, everything on gutterfighting.org, and I train with training knives frequently and I cannot see this knife being used in serious combat duty. Am I wrong? If so, why? I rather like the knife but it just strikes me as being a little too light and fragile.

 

[Baba Louie]

Col. Rex Applegate would agree with ya as well.

Hence his A-F knife design. Get one for the collection (F-S), but if it is serious work with a blade, there are other choices maybe better suited like a Randall Made #2 or the A-F.

Heck even the lowly M1 Carbine bayonet is a stronger design, isn't it?

Adios

 

[Edward429451]

I have a FS knife. I like it, it has its niche. Just not an only knife niche. The're compact (girth) and light. Kind of fragile, I broke my tip off about 1/4 inch once. Then I had the blade tip fixed, and the entire blade thinned so it would take more of a razor sharp edge. Bout 35 bucks and reblued it myself. It was worth it, that baby will penetrate. It'll walk right through a flak vest like butter, all the way.

It's a battle knife alright, just not general purpose like a K-Bar. The real ones will be marked Sheffield England on the tang. It holds an edge good if you don't use it except for what it was designed for. In that light, I guess you could say mine is unused.

 

[mete]

I've heard it called a light duty combat knife !! There is an oximoron . The tips do break off easily. I ahve one just as as a historical piece but would pick other knives for combat.

 

[Ol' Badger]

I've opened up cans of soup with my K-Bar. Like to see a Fairbairn-Sykes do that!

 

[Skofnung]

As I understand it, the FS was designed for commandos who would be sticking German guards. It is designed as a stabbing weapon par excellance. That means a thin, sharp, stiff (hard) blade.

These virtues are drawbacks for general purpose combat knives, that need to be thicker and tougher (a little softer) to take the abuse of opening cans, cutting, hacking, and other general purpose work.

A general fighting knife it is not. It is designed to stab rather than cut,with the target being the central nervous system, for "one stab stops" . Used in this way, it is truly a deadly little blade. Used as a slasher or a prybar, it sucks. Right tool for the job, right?

All that said, I would prefer something a little stouter, (my Ka-Ber comes to mind) but it would make a fine back up weapon, as long as the user knows its limitations and how to use it.

 

[Baba Louie]

Skofnung,

I thought that it was designed while Fairbairn was in Shanghai in cohoots with some US Marine... Don't know the real story tho'.

But you're right on about it being designed and built for one thing and its definitely not a Utility blade.

Kinda sexy in a deadly sorta way.

Adios

 

[Joe Demko]

IIRC, William Fairbairn designed the knife in conjunction with Anthony Sykes. Sykes was also British military, I believe. The USMC did use a somewhat simplified version of the knife as issue to the Marine Raiders in the south pacific. It looked substantially like the FS dagger, but the handle was cast in one piece out of zinc. Like the FS, it was somewhat fragile when used as anything but a stabbing implement.

 

[hso]

Yep, the FS is a special purpose knife intended for stabbing sentries not suited to fighting, combat, or general purpose use.

 

[Soap]

Thanks for the input! But when Fairbairn writes about the F/S in Kill or Get Killed it seems evident that he believes it is a cut and thrust weapon, not just a thrust one:

The stiletto type weapon is ideal for close-in fighting. It can be used for both cutting and thrusting, and it is easy to maneuver, because of its design and balance...This length blade is ideal for balance, is good for both the cut and the thrust, and is long enough to penetrate heavy clothing without losing its effectiveness...Its very design makes it a true fighting knife, combining with its double edge both cutting and slashing qualities.

 

[Skofnung]

Daniel,

When I said that it was a stabbing weapon, what I meant was that was its primary function. It will cut without a problem, so long as it is cutting something soft like the human body.

A friend of mine has one (a Sheffield Replica)and he used it to cut some thick nylon webbing(it was the knife nearest to him when he needed it) and it sliced right through, no problem. If it will cut through that, it will cut a person. That is exactly what it was designed to do.

Much like a rapier or a katana, it was designed with one thing in mind, to open up/stick people. At this, it excells. It was not designed to be a utility tool like the Ka-Bar.

Regards

 

[Soap]

I would never use an F/S for anything but fighting. It is pure fighter, plain and simple. Even so, at first impression it seemed to me to be a little too weak even for fighting duty. I guess time and training will probably iron out my opinions.

 

[Joe Demko]

FWIW, the FS dagger didn't start to get a reputation for fragility until it became a mass-produced wartime item. Early ones show an exquisite degree of workmanship. The handles are knurled and made from brass. The blades, IIRC, were forged and finished by Wilkinson Sword and several other notable manufacturers of edged weapons. As often happens, when they were needed in greater numbers, quality suffered. Next to an original early specimen, one of the issue ones of today, as sold by such vendors as Atlanta Cutlery, look pretty crude. Regardless, it is a special purpose knife, and one that works well when used for that purpose

 

[dfariswheel]

The FS knife was a pure "assassination implement", not a fighting knife.
They weren't a combat knife, nor were they a true fighting knife. They were designed for the express purpose of killing an unsuspecting enemy soldier.

Fairbairn was an officer on the Shanghai police, Sykes was a police sergent.

The early FS was "hand pulled" (forged) by Wilkerson Sword works, and the early blades were very tough. Later knives suffered for the lower quality.

MOST of the WWII special forces knives like the FS and the V-42 were thin, light knives, and simply couldn't take use as a true combat knife.
The people in charge of designing and adopting them never seemed to consider that the vast majority of the use for the knife would be cutting rope, opening rations, prying ammo cans open, and all the other things a combat knife is used for. That's why it's not unusual to see original knives with the points broken off and re-pointed, or to find just a handle, with a snapped off blade.
Very few knives are ever used to kill somebody.

Effective as as these knives were at sentry removal, they were really more of a moral builder for the soldiers using them.

 

[Baba Louie]

www.esa-swords.com still offers Wilkinson made F-S for a pretty penny

(Nice photos too)

Adios

 

[Edward429451]

OMG! Did you see them prices? I paid $27 for mine in the mid 80's.
I had no clue they went up like that.

I couldnt even find my exact model as its obviously not in stock. But if the replicas are 170, 210 or 290. whats that make mine worth?

I have the 7" blade, black finished brass handle, with the sheath that has the elastic strap. Marked Sheffield England on the tang.

Can anyone help me out with this? THX.

Wow.