Fake Badges

[Polishrifleman]

What to do with the media and the coverage of the evil Ruski selling "Good Qualitly" Fake law enforcement, etc. badges?

Is it the vast quantity seized at one location?

Is it the Russian Connection?

Is it the quality?

Is it the media praying on an unknowing public?

Is it a concerned government wanting to educate us on a potential threat?

Part of this is knowing that good looking (don't know about quality) badges have been available forever, and while being pulled over yesterday (for not wearing my restraining device properly) my 4 yr. old son in the back seat asked if the officer was going to murder us.

What concerns me is the close proximity that an individual is able to attain when presenting a badge, letter, credential or other squint eyed object and the obvious untrustworthy (maybe not the right word) preception that at least my 4 yr old has taken in through osmosis of some type.

Just want to open up the discussion and see where it leads.

 

[Risasi]

This is why I assume someone busting through my door is a bad guy, even if it's a no knock warrant. Not that this has ever happened, or that I expect it will....


Same thing as alcohol and cigarettes. It's not the booze and smokes that are evil, it's the heart of man.

Likewise it's not the badge that should be illegal, just the guy trying to impersonate a police officer that's a crime. Generally real cops take it quite seriously when they have posers around.

 

[SMMAssociates]

Must have been a slow news day....

Well, at least before that small plane scared the hell out of everybody in DC....

There are rules against the display of badges in some areas, and I'm sure you need permits or some sort of letter from the Chief to buy some, but overall they've been generally available anywhere.

We are legally permitted to ask to see other ID, although you may get into a verbal tussle if the LEO's driving a marked unit and in uniform.

There will likely be a call to serialize badge, register them, require ten day waiting periods, etc.

I suppose "good quality" means "accurate reproduction", but I doubt if the average citizen would be able to tell as long as the badge didn't say "Chicken Inspector".

It's not a non-issue, IMHO, but the BG's who are going to use badges to facilitate their activities probably won't care one way or the other.

(Did you notice the shot of the Poodle? Duh? Why did my hairdresser duck?")

 

[rock jock]

REminds me of Dan Ackroyd pulling out a pack of cigarettes in Blues Brothers.

 

[444]

I am not sure exactly what to say about the whole issue of fake badges or even real badges obtained somehow. It fits in with people wearing shirts (uniform and otherwise) for organizations that they are not a part of and never were.
I have a badge. I went through a lot to get it. I applied for the position along with several thousand other applicants. I took a written test, I took a physical agility test, I took a strength test, I went through an oral board, I went through an interview process where my credentials were evaluated, I went through background checks with local, state, federal and interpol. When I got all done, I was one of 21 people chosen out of several thousand who got to attend the academy. The academy was a real PITA and was significantly harder than Army basic. Not all 21 people made it through and in many academys half or more of the people who start never finish. When I got all done, they had a ceremony where they gave me a badge. I got to wear it for a year of probation where I was constantly evaluated. I passed that and got to keep the badge. If I want another one for my winter coat I have to get a letter from the chief to buy it and pay for it out of my own pocket. When I got promoted I gave back that badge and got another one that had someone elses name engraved on the back from when they wore it.
There is a certain amount of pride that goes along with that badge and I guess it would sort of T me off to see someone faking them.

 

[Otherguy Overby]

Badges

Does this mean I should reconsider ordering that CCW badge?

 

[SMMAssociates]

Overby:

Yeah - before they fall under the NFA rules or some such....

444:

I mentioned being a rent-a-cop before more than once. When I did Ohio's "POST" (we call it OPOTA) my classmates were other rentals and assorted regular officers, one of which eventually ended up as the Chief in a neighboring PD. We're not talking East Podunk here either, although at the time - 1967 - the requirements then weren't close to what you had to do. I don't know if I could get through the course now (the closest thing to physical training was shooting in an indoor range while it was 20 degrees), and I'm sure I couldn't get through what OH requires for "regular" LEO's today.

Although individual LEO's sometimes crank me off (so does my wife, kid, dog, and assorted relatives), I have a great deal of respect for what most of them had to do to get that badge. Being the Sheriff's brother-in-law generally doesn't help like it used to.

My only regret is that not all LEO's live up to the training. We hear more about those here than the ones who do, which is why I like to see those "Positive LEO Encounter" posts.

However, what we're talking about here is just a hunk of metal or plastic. There probably should be restrictions on just anybody purchasing one, but it's the guy holding the badge that is important here. Anything else we do is rather more like Superman trying to restrict the use of the letter "S".... Feels good, but probably won't help.

Just IMHO....

 

[JohnBT]

Seems reasonable to restrict stuff to people who've earned it. Back in 1950-something I had to prove I was a Boy Scout to purchase Boy Scout badges and stuff.

JT

 

[ravinraven]

My "Official US Taxpayer" badge

I thought it was a lark when I bought a belt buckle that was a six pointed star engraved "Official US taxpayer." The "badge" was the same size and design as the county sheriff and his men wore. Theirs, I think, was engraved "Official US Tax Absorber." [joking]

Anyway. I went to my favorite hang out one night with my new belt buckle. A fight broke out. Naturally I strolled across the bar to get a better view of the proceedings and the fight stopped immediately. The drunks helped each other up off the floor and went back to drinking.

A few nights later, same performance with different drunks fighting. I went to watch and the fight stopped immediately.

It was the bartender who told me the second night that somebody from the first night was terrified that I was an undercover cop. wearing my badge on my belt.

I do have the paper work supporting that badge--about fifty years worth of W-2s

rr

 

[444]

SMMAssociates, I am not a cop: I am a firefighter.
I once worked part time as a paramedic in Youngstown (while working full time at the Ohio Edison plant at Niles) and went to school at Aultman hospital in Canton.

I think it is obvious that we are talking about exact duplicates of real badges, not kids sherrif's badges and stuff like that. I also think that most reasonable people realize there is a difference between a guy that has a collection of badges and someone who is buying large quantities of fake exact duplicates of real badges that are currently being issued. I don't blame someone for looking into it. I don't agree that a SWAT team should kick in his front door and he be physically assulted for it. But, I think someone should check it out. If it turns out that he has a valid reason for buying a quantity of fake badges, OK. I can think of some valid reasons why someone might buy a quantity of badges.
Now I am not advocating that we have to clear everything we buy though some law enforcement agency. But, there are some items that are different from others. Buying a gross of bubble gum is not the same thing as buying a gross of fake DEA badges.

 

[Spreadfire Arms]

i saw at a local gun show a guy selling pretty good fakes of California Highway Patrol badges. They were very similar except:

1. 3 digit badge numbers. CHP has 5 digit.
2. weird ranks/positions: ones like Chaplain, etc., i.e. not positions that would be issued a badge if they even existed.
3. they had ones that said "Patrolman." that rank does not exist. The real position is STO (State Traffic Officer) which is written on the real badge.

but they looked real enough (im former California LEO) such that if they were flashed they would look real enough to at least cause an average person to think they may be real coppers. although the odds of CHP busting in your front door aren't too common, they do have an auto theft task force, etc.

 

[SMMAssociates]

Ouch....

444:

Didn't mean to slight you as a firefighter. Guess you can see where my mind is, but to be honest, that badge is even harder to get from my overweight and overaged standpoint. (And, come to think of it, when I was young enough to think about it, too. A friend of mine was with the Boardman Township VFD for a long time. The "regulars" were genuine professionals, and the volunteers didn't exactly find their badges in Cracker Jacks boxes either.)

I don't see anything wrong with "collectables" either - passing around departmental patches has been traditional forever, and badges wander about, too, on the same basis, although the former are often free and easier to get.

(I don't see anything wrong with that belt buckle thing either, but that's another story. Downside is that any badge-on-the-belt makes you a better target, and could be considered "impersonating".... My rent-a-cop badge is essentially worthless today. Youngstown pulled all the commissions in the mid-80's, but it's still valid ID for the agency. I got rid of my "Special Police" badges years ago. One went to a friend who was making a memorial plaque for her LEO father and needed a State Seal to replace whatever had gotten lost somehow.)

I'm sure I've mentioned my "wannabemobiles" - the last one was an '84 Crown Vic. Other than a half-vinyl roof, it looked like somebody's unmarked. No spotlight, though. Nice navy blue with a cellular pigtail (rather rare at the time) and a 19" spike. I bought the thing, fitted it out, and went to lunch with the radio club. One of the guys wondered "what PD owns that thing?".... Whoops - it was supposed to be invisible....

Somewhere along the line I picked up a baseball cap (I like to wear 'em when I'm driving long distances) that said "California Highway Patrol". Didn't really look like anything.... I was driving in WV and listening to the Turnpike State Police radio when they put out a BOLO for a vehicle that had been abandoned. Imagine the look on the toll barrier kid when I pulled up and asked him to tell the SP where the car was.... With that hat on....

I wouldn't do that anymore.... To dangerous.... The wife put her foot down, too, when I bought a Town Car in 1989. Nothing in/on it but the hi-band radio. OSP was not pleased about all those fun accessories anyway, and the Insurance Company had a dim view of them, too. The current Town Car even has a sort of cellular antenna for the extra radio instead of a spike.

I miss the spotlight....

BTW, what do you call a speeding late model luxury car with extra antennas on it?

Police brass late for lunch .

Hm.... Did you know Chuck Thomas at OE Niles? Lived in a trailer with his wife and very young son who liked to go to HoJo's on Sunday AM? Ham Radio buddy. I was on a tour there in the early 60's, and used to drive by on the way to a consulting client all the time before they moved to Austintown. Nice place to visit.

Regards,

 

[444]

I don't know if I know him or not. My shift supervisor was a ham and his name was Charlie, but I don't know/remember his last name.
By the way, I am also a ham: AB7KT. I was originally licensed in the late 70s as KA8FFL down the river near Steubenville.

 

[SMMAssociates]

444:

K8LEA here, since 1958....

The Chuck I'm thinking of is K8LFR, if that rings a bell.

Lost track of him a long time back, but....

Regards,