FAL or G3

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zephyr89

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I am looking into buying a battle rifle and these two are the most obvious choices. Which do I choose the precision engineered G3 or the "right arm of the free world" FAL? I was almost about to buy a PTR 91 but one of my good friends said "no man! you should get a stg 58 FAL"

I am very torn. I will probably end up getting both in due time. I decided the best way to make a choice would be a pro con sheet. maybe you can help fill it out.

which is more accurate?
which is more reliable?
which will last longer?
which is easier to mod? (adding a scope, or sights, new stock, etc.)
which has more mods?
which has less recoil?


I've got all the historic info and features down. G3 is a modded CETME, and the CETME does not have a good rep. the only way to mount a scope blah blah blah blah blah. FAL was used by almost every nato country. FAL was also used by many 2nd world countries. In the Falklands war blah blah blah blah blah.

What I need most is your observations and conclusions from firsthand experience.

also, give the cheapest online or catalog order gun companies. $1200 is a lot of money you know.
 
Cetme has a bad rep because of Century.

Do you reload? Are you ever planning on reloading 308? If so, the answer is straight up a FAL. Fluted chambers in G3/Cetmes destroy brass. Some people reload the fluted brass but it doesn't last nearly as long as it should.
 
which is more accurate?

Probably on par, better accuracy leaning towards FAL.

which is more reliable?

FAL was and is still used by 90+ countries. The G3 was used by germany and a few others in limited quantities I believe. I believe the FAL is easier to get running, and keep running.

which will last longer?

Again, probably right about par depending on how you treat each rifle.

which is easier to mod?

I think the FAL wins this hands down. You can get a nice low scope mount for the FAL, where as the HK rifles are borderline difficult to scope with their "claw" mounts. HK scopes also have to accomidate for the rear sight which forces the scope up another inch or so. Para stocks for the G3 also have a reputation for being uncomfortable if not painful to shoot. FAL's para stocks feel great IMO. FAL's also have the ability to accept the Para rear irons if you don't like your rifle aperature out in the open.

which has less recoil?

Once again, I'm sure just about par.

I think the FAL is a much more refined system, easier to tweak with it's adjustable gas system and easier to trick out. Not to mention that parts for it will probably be cheaper since it happens to be in use everywhere. I've fondled and shot both and although I believe the G3 is a fine weapon, it's slightly outclassed by the FAL in almost every category but price. The FAL will cost an extra $400 over the PTR91s or G3's.
 
Oh yeah, if you decide on FAL, do NOT get anything that says CAI or Century and "Made in USA" and L1A1 or R1A1. If you do, you are getting a Hesse receiver which equals crap. If you get a CAI that says IMBEL, you are good to go.
 
If you get a CAI that says IMBEL, you are good to go.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that. Stay away from inch pattern FAL's and Century Arms. They are cheap for a reason. BUT, if you get an Imbel Receiver or a DSA rifle, you should be good. Infact, DSA is the rolls royce of the FAL industry, I'd stick with them unless you like your guns to be the same caliber (pun intended) as a Geo or Pinto.
 
This would be #61.


FAL vs. HK91

61. The question of which is better frequently comes up. IMO both are good designs and either will do what most shooters want to do with a military-style 7.62 rifle. I own both and like them both but there are some differences. To me the FAL feels sleeker and faster handling but this is subjective. The 91 seems sturdier but again this could just be my perception. The 91 is hard on cases, battering them during ejection. Also, for some reason the 91 is horrendously loud with a real sharp report. The FAL is a tad longer and to me the grip angle is not as natural as that on the 91. The bottom line is that all of the differences are relatively minor and I could happily live with either if limited to one. If I had to choose, I would likely pick the FAL but it would be very close. I have no experience with any of the various “clones” of these rifles as mine are genuine FN and HK products so I cannot comment on the quality of the other makes.
 
No experience with HK clones. I know the HK system better and have been around it much longer. I consider it the more accurate of the two. Delay gas blowback has fewer moving parts and more consistent harmonics. It's also easier to scope. That said, the HK is more unforgiving with the type of ammunition (must be NATO mil-spec) and is hard on the brass (for you reloaders).

My experience with FN clones is the Springfield SAR-48 (Brazilian made). I looked at the Belgian made one and the Brazilian made one and the machine marks on the receiver looked the same. The SAR-48 was half the price too. You can figure out which way I went. So, examining the FN, the FN has an adjustable gas port, making it more reliable or at least can use a variety of ammunition. Ergonomics and balance are superior on the FN. I believe that there's been a lower receiver scope mount for it, which is better than the earlier receiver cover type mounts that have been tried (too much movement and the scope won't be in the same place after every shot).
 
If you can, try them both. Figger which one you like better.

For myself, having owned them both, the G3 is hands down the better rifle. Better sights, more accurate, easier to clean, easier to put a scope on. I can't say that reliability is any different, but the FAL adjustable gas system "feature" is really a liability. I hated that on my FAL.

You can get a nice low scope mount for the FAL, where as the HK rifles are borderline difficult to scope with their "claw" mounts... says DScottW
I will disagree respectfully here. If you clean your rifle, if you clean the chamber area, you will have to remove your scope mount from the FAL. When you put it back on, you have to resnug a dozen little screws, and your zero will have shifted. So you have to shoot it to zero it. But if you shoot it, you have to clean it. So you have to remove the scope base again, and lose zero. Because of this, the FAL scope mounting arrangement is not as good as the one for the G3. The claw mount on the G3 fits right on, and retains its zero. You don't have to remove it to clean your rifle, but if you do, it goes right back on to the same zero as the last time. +1 Gew.3.

Heat control is better on the G3 also. +1 G3

G3 has a floated barrel... generally regarded as more accurate. +1 G3

Sights are better on the G3 to shoot through, but I'd have to give the nod to the FAL for ease of adjustment. +1/-1

One thing you will want to do with the PTR91 is to get a paddle mag release installed. It makes the rifle so much more user friendly. -1 for not having it in the first place.

As far as reloading goes, if you use military brass, which is thicker gage, and a port buffer, you can reload your empties just fine, assuming you can find your spent brass. (The G3 does have a strong ejection.) The FAL is supposedly adjustable, but on its lowest setting it seems to kick the brass as far as does the G3 with the port buffer installed. This is because the FAL kicks the brass in a high arc, whereas the G3 with port buffer kicks it downwards, but after it hits the ground the empty will tend to bounce a few times before coming to rest. +1/-1

The grip angle on the FAL is odd. The grip angle on the G3 is pretty good. +1 G3

The collapsible stock on the G3 is OK, it is "cool" but the standard stock is better to shoot. The para stock on the DSA FAL I shot was a terrible design. They put the rear sling swivel on the left where the thing folds. When you shoot the rifle, the sling swivel punches you in the upper lip! -1 Para FAL!

Modularity: The G3 wins here. To change stocks, it is the simple matter of removing the two retaining pins and changing stocks. Takes 15 seconds or so. The lower grip frames are readily interchangeable on the same basis. To change stocks, you have to change the entire lower receiver on the FAL. To change the foregrips is also much easier on the G3. +1 G3

Triggers: Both sport triggers with a stronger pull then necessary, but can be reworked to improve pull. I will tell you that the Belgian G1 I owned had a very narrow trigger shoe, and combined with the heavy pull, was not as pleasant to shoot as the G3. The G3 has a much better, wider, smoother, trigger shoe. Just better to shoot. +1 G3

Bipods: The FAL bipod mounts on the barrel, which when deployed, will tend to throw your shots, and cause the rifle to shoot to a different point of aim. Both heavy and light bipods on the G3 mount in such a way that the barrel is unaffected. Definite +1 G3

Safety/selectors: Both are designed to go off safe readily. The throw on the G3 is shorter to get to either semi or auto setting. Getting either on safe requires one to release his grip and reset the safety. I don't care for this "feature" either. +1 G3 for shorter selector throw.

The FAL has a last round bolt hold open. +1 FAL

G3 magazines have a robust feed box much less susceptible to damage than the feed lips of the FAL magazine. Both are rock in designs. +1 G3

Both are great rifles. I would be happy with either. The G3 fits me better than the FAL, and is easier to maintain, clean, and care for. It is stone cold reliable without the need for an adjustable gas system, which I do not see as a feature, but a liability. I hate cleaning that gas system.

Get which one fits you well and you like the feel of best. Both are good rifles.

As an aside: I understand these days that DSA is the top of the line for the FAL. One thing I noticed when shooting the the Para FAL by DSA is that it rings like a bell. Owner said it had something to do with the alloy and hardening of the receiver. That ringing was very annoying, and penetrated my ear muffs. Whenever you shot the thing, or charged a round, it just rang and resonated for a very long time. If I were to buy one of those rifles, I would insist on dropping the bolt from the BHO and see if it rings. Also, I've read on THR several examples of the DSA which would not feed reliably out of the box, and owners had to modify some area of the receiver over the magazine box. This is unacceptable on a rifle of that price... but that seems to be the standard.
 
FAL was and is still used by 90+ countries. The G3 was used by germany and a few others in limited quantities I believe.
I think you will find that the G-3 is still in use by more country's than the FAL.

The G-3 uses stampings and welds and for that reason is cheaper to produce than the FAL which uses forgeing and threads.
This fact alone let the G-3 overtake the FAL in number of rifles produced and fielded worldwide.

If you want a precision rifle get a M-14 clone.:evil:
 
I prefer a gas piston and regular smooth chamber to the roller-delayed blowback and fluted chamber so I would go FAL. The PTR-91 is cheaper though than a good FAL.
 
I will disagree respectfully here. If you clean your rifle, if you clean the chamber area, you will have to remove your scope mount from the FAL.

I disagree. The chamber area is large enough to be able to easily clean it without removing the scope mount. I much prefer the FAL scope mounting (at least with the DSA rail) to the HK series. I think the claw mount puts the scope too high. I like the claw mount concept, just wish it was a bit lower.

I found my Springfield SAR-8 (Hk-91 clone built on licensed HK tooling in Greece) to be slightly more accurate than my DSA FAL.

I prefer the FALs ergonomics and control placement (safety and charging handle), so I'd pick the FAL, but if the HK felt better to me I'd pick that one.

Get which one fits you well and you like the feel of best. Both are good rifles.

This is unacceptable on a rifle of that price.

On these points I agree entirely. It is an easy fix, and one I would do myself rather than going through the hassle of sending it back, but if mine had issues out of the box I would have been very disappointed.
 
One thing you will want to do with the PTR91 is to get a paddle mag release installed. It makes the rifle so much more user friendly. -1 for not having it in the first place.

Blame the ATF not PTR. The original style paddle release has been ruled a machine gun by the geniuses at the ATF.

There is an alternate method of using a paddle release but it's not the standard method so I don't blame PTR for avoiding the issue completely.

If you do install a paddle release, be careful how you do it. You can make an illegal machinegun if you are not careful.

Website with a copy of the ATF ruling:

http://www.geocities.com/miketheelectrician1/paddlemag.html

I'm not recommending the procedure on this page, it just has the ATF ruling at the top. There are easier ways to do the paddle mag legally.
 
Excellent analysis stubbicatt! Best I have read.
I also have both an original H&K91 and a DSA SA58 Carbine. The H&K has ended up doing most of my long range shooting and is quite accurate with hand-loads tailored for it, I have had no problems re-loading the fluted brass. The DSA, I keep light and trim, great general purpose rifle to throw in the truck and take to the range or hills.
I would have a hard time picking one, the H&K covers all basis well, but the SA58 fits me better. Can't go wrong with a quality rifle in either design.

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With the HK you can add the telescoping stock and a 30 round magazine and make it look like an AK47 on steroids. :D


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G3 is a modded CETME
Not quite accurate. The G3 is the evolved end point of the earlier CETME.

I prefer FALs for the durability and ergonomics. Accuracy is adequate for battle rifle purposes and they will withstand considerable neglect and abuse and keep running. A friend of mine was an NCO in the Rhodesian infantry. He said that they had G3s and FALs and his preference was the FAL because it went BANG even in the worst conditions.
 
Have them both. My FAL was built by a gunsmith friend who used parts that were "best fit".

It has an Argentine barrel.

The FAL is a rear locker and is hard on brass. Brass stretches.

Since I installed the port buffer on the PTR91, my brass is coming out with little dents and is totally reloadable.

I will say that neither rifle is a target rifle, but the Thompson Center barrel on the PTR91 is a better barrel than any put on a service rifle. (Excepting perhaps the Swiss rifles)

A good FAL is very expensive, the PTR91 is a quality product and is reasonably priced.

Flip a coin, they are both good.

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Who says you can't reload HK brass? I say BS. If you strart with good brass you will be OK. Dents in the brass mean nothing and will size just fine. I have 200 round batch of CAVIM brass with six reloads.

Cheers
..MJ..
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One other thing, and it may have been because it was a Pre Dealer Sample select fire original FAL G1, but my knuckles on the trigger finger felt like they were being pulled apart after I would shoot a couple mags through that rifle. I don't know why that is. If it were an AK I would blame trigger slap, but the design of the FCG on the FAL is quite different from that on the Kalashnikov.
 
I have seen pictures of some H&K/PTR rifles that really mangle the brass, a port buffer will usually help.
Luckily my H&K spits the brass out untouched other than the flute imprints in the brass, that pose no problems reloading, other than the reloads look a little different. With my reloads and a Williams set trigger job, I have gotten my 91 able to shoot 1 MOA regularly.

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