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His facts are incorrect so he's either ignorant or dishonest. An ignorant person can be taught the facts while a dishonest one can't be trusted on anything.

Point by point his arguments are easily shown to be false. We know that historically that the romantic idea of ranks of Minutemen freeing the country is wrong. They were not considered to be as valuable as regular troops and that the raising of funds to purchase arms for the Continental Army and the subsequent Armies was a major effort. Even Washington himself lamented the disorder and poor equipage and value of the various militias. Minutemen played an important part in winning our freedom from the British, but serious historians, instead of romantic schoolboys, know that the methodical equipping of a "modern" army was critical to winning that freedom. We've already established that the authors of the Constitution and BOR were not ignorant hicks lacking in education and imagination. The time that those two pillars of the U.S. were written was one of the most exciting times for new ideas and new technologies. His understanding of what a fully automatic weapon is and what's involved with owning one is pathetically lacking and represents the shallow understanding from listening to snippits from the popular press. Much like learning about how to build a long lasting and satisfying relationship from sitcoms or adult films is silly, basing any opinion on machine guns on bits and pieces from TV and movies is absurd. While anyone that can afford the thousands of dollars in investment in a full auto firearm and the $200 transfer tax and can make it through the background check might be considered the "general public". Then what is untrustworthy about your average homeowner that your father doesn't like?
 
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Wow, lots of spirited and blunt replies! Almost want to link this thread to my dad and have him read it. No sense in dragging up the past though, and I have (right or wrong) pretty much given up on changing his mind.
Wholeheartedly agree on most of the points made by everyone. Ignorance can be fixed, but opinions are, in the end, completely up to the owner! I just hope I never have to tell my dad "I told you so!!"
 
His facts are incorrect so he's either ignorant or dishonest. An ignorant person can be taught the facts while a dishonest one can't be trusted on anything.

I agree, the points that he makes are not factual at all. Most aren't really open to interpretation, so there's an issue with misinformation somewhere.

If I were going to reply, I'd go fact by fact and replace the bogus info with the truth.

Most states regulate magazine sizes. Hunters typically abide by the law. It's poachers that do not and that's illegal. And the notion of 20 rounds into a single animal? I smell a little "hollywood" in that statement.

Fully automatic weapons are regulated and not owned by the general public.

let's do away with the wholesale slaughter of animals just so you can mount the head!

The wholesale slaughter of animals is where we get the majority of our meats. Is he a vegetarian or vegan? Is a deer head so much worse than killing 60,000 chickens every 6-8 weeks, or cows, or pigs, or whatever, to pay the internet bill to write in these forums and drive our nice cars?

As for the "they never imagined...." statement, Rusty S. is correct. Should the internet be banned? It is used for criminal purposes. Cell phone bombs? Them too? It has the capacity to spread just as much evil knowledge as good knowledge.

3. As to the argument that hunting with "assault rifles" will blow the animal to pieces, it's worth noting that this type of weapon uses ammunition that is normally less powerful than more traditional hunting rifles.

^^^ Yes. And, it's also noteworthy that not every state allows hunting with the typical AR-15 chambered in .223 or 5.56 and not because it is TOO powerful, but because it is considered inadequate.

Well, the fact that SCOTUS ruled that they have no duty to protect has already been mentioned, so I'll leave you with this:

I liked his "I'll leave you with this", but, I like mine better :D
So, should I now be telling my 105 lb g/f that she should not be allowed to CCW? I should tell her that even though the cops do NOT have the duty to protect us, she should try to fight of her 200# assailant with pepper spray or judo instead? Should she NOT be allowed to go out at night like other people because she lacks the physical stature to put up a substantial resistance?

If you reply, good luck. There are a good number of facts that could easily be challenged if he were willing to look at the truth.
 
1) It was born of a different time . . . during the birth of a nation in a strange & foreign land when it was necessary to defend your house, family & belongings from irate Native American Indians ...

It was a different time, but was it any more valid during that time to "defend your house, family & belongings" than it is today?



2) The 2nd amendment should be updated to fit the current era. Back when it was drafted & written into the Constitution, our forefathers had not even dreamed of automatic weapons, armor-piercing bullets, drive-by shootings, drug-infested gang shootouts, etc. - what a change since then. Their intent was NOT to have everyone armed while walking down the street to protect against robbings, muggings, etc. - it just wasn't much of a consideration back then.

Maybe it should be updated. Maybe now that we have "automatic weapons, armor-piercing bullets, drive-by shootings, drug-infested gang shootouts, etc" the the constitution should be broadened to say that all Americans should have the right to defend their life, family, and belongs with all of the available weaponry of the day. And by the way, they did have robbings, muggings, and etc. back then. I saw a coach gun from before that time period the other day that was used to protect from such things just last week.



3) I passionately think that we should outlaw fully automatic weapons in the hands of the general public. How we do that is a very difficult thing. One doesn't need to fire off a 20-round clip to kill a deer - that's not sport, it's animal abuse & cruelty. The sport is in being able to stealthily stalk the deer (or whatever animal) and kill him with an expertly aimed single shot. Then use the meat, etc. as sustenance for your family/community - let's do away with the wholesale slaughter of animals just so you can mount the head! Also, I don't think anyone should be able to buy a gun that shoots more than one round with one squeeze of the trigger. What's the need for it? The military/police are the ONLY ones that need that kind of firepower! Will there be people that would abuse a law banning automatic weapons? You bet, but at least it would hopefully narrow the field a little bit for law enforcement.

Maybe someone doesn't need twenty rounds to kill a deer (although I have seen otherwise) but that doesn't mean there aren't other sporting activities with such a gun. If we do away with the wholesale slaughter of animals, are you suggesting that everyone become vegetarians? Or is the deer more valuable and has more rights than a hefer or chicken? I think law enforcement should muskets and they need to leave them unloaded until they can prove that they need them. Otherwise, let's just go ahead and elect the next Adolf Hitler, give up all our rights as citizens and settle into the fact that a government can control every aspect of our lives better than we can.
 
I generally avoid debating with folks of your father's mindset. It's just a waste of time and severs relationships. If I value the relationship, I just agree to disagree and don't discuss it. If I don't value the relationship, I won't invest any significant time debating once I start hearing the fantasy emotional argument like "hunting with machine guns" because A) nobody advocates that and B) the 2A isn't about hunting.
 
"I don't think anyone should be able to buy a gun that shoots more than one round with one squeeze of the trigger. What's the need for it?"

I went to look at new cars yesterday and stopped at one with a speedometer that went up to 140. No, I don't "need" a car that is capable of going 140, but I have the right to buy it if I want. It's illegal to drive that fast on any highway I know of and there's absolutely no legitimate reason to be able to drive that fast but I can still own the car. That's called freedom. I don't see anyone talking about taking that right away from me even though there are probably more people killed each year by speeding cars than firearms misuse.

I love the anti's arguments that there's no "need" for whatever kind of firearm they are talking about taking away from us. Nothing in the Constitution about "need" at all that I ever saw.
 
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