very irritating discussion

[Strykervet]

Parity of force. We should all be able to have the same firepower and armor that an average infantry rifleman has. And we actually do in a way... As a former SDM instructor, I have the exact same semi M4 I built in the army. I had no use for the heavy trigger 3rd. burst except for run-'n-gun or breaking an ambush.

And in a SHTF situation where we need parity of force, well, look at Libya as an example. It only takes a few military dissidents and citizens to occupy a military base in the event of collapse of democracy or a demanded regime change, which we aren't close to yet (but are always at the threat of, hence the Bill of Rights).

 

[armoredman]

I'm just glad we have guys like you who are willing to run into a burning building. I took the 1 day fire fighting course at Treasure Island back in '87, and that was enough to convince me that I will be the one LEAVING the burning building. Thanks for saving lives by walking where the demons dance.
As for firearms conversations, same here, where we all have to be qualified with pistols and shotguns, some with AR-15s, yet we have many non shooters, some who cannot understand why ANYONE would need anything at home that shoots real bullets. Mention machineguns and the high powered whine gets to dentist drill velocity. Ouch.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Last year New Hampshire was dubbed the safest state to live in, I forgot by whom but it was and I believe it. Live free or die!

 

[dandydon]

Hi all ,Just joined the other day. After 10 years with no hand guns(sold the 4 I had) because could only use them hunting and target here in NY-State. I just got a unrestricted and have purchased a ruger SR-9c and a MarkIII hunter. I have already had to walk away from several anti's, looking to question my reasoning for owning hand guns (like I want to start a war or something) we have several clubs that shoot competitively. My wife shoots also in a lady's league, but it seems so many are anti gun,one guy told me a good gun is a melted gun!!!!! Thats when I walked away and he still persisted, it took another fella to get him to shut up.I remained calm and firm,he was getting hot,I just told him he is the type of guy that should never own a gun with his temper. Thanks for listening.I just put $$$ down on a Ruger Vaquera 357Mag. Can't wait for that gun. Anyone have "shutup statement" for these anti's

 

[azmjs]

The NFA is good because it strikes just the right balance between owning a machine gun and protecting public safety.

I'm more or less indifferent to the hughes ban. I'd vote against it if given the opportunity, and I doubt it should pass muster with the courts because of the halfassed way it was implemented. De facto bans that operate by refusing to accept taxes that are imposed are not proper.

Anyhow, hobbies cost money, such is life.

Interstate commerce is one of those ingenious clauses in the constitution that seems to automatically fit the times. Indeed, as the economy has become vastly more complex and interwoven, the federal government's role in regulating commerce has expanded in step.

 

[Sam Cade]

The NFA is good because it strikes just the right balance between owning a machine gun and protecting public safety.

So you are saying that a full auto Norell 10/22 is a threat to "public safety" and a semi-auto AR15 is not?

...and a rifle with a 15" barrel is a threat to "public safety"?

How does having to pay an extra $200 protect "public safety"?

 

[M-Cameron]

So you are saying that a full auto Norell 10/22 is a threat to "public safety" and a semi-auto AR15 is not?

...and a rifle with a 15" barrel is a threat to "public safety"?

How does having to pay an extra $200 protect "public safety"?

or those people who can own a rifle and pistol ( pretty much anyone over 21 in a free state)...

...who can legally own an AR-15 Rifle......and can legally own an AR Pistol......

but somehow they are now a felon if they cut that rifle barrel down to 15"......or put a butt-stock on that pistol......

i dont see how a law like that could make sense to anyone.....

 

[kingcheese]

ok, so i am not saying that no one should be allowed to have full automatic rifles of the large caliber variety, all i am saying is that i dont trust the people around me not to do something stupid, and end up shooting me

i own 10 guns, i shoot,clean,care, for them all, my collection will grow, but i dont think i am ever going to have a need for full auto rifle, most people wont

lets face it, at this point if we ever have to defend ourselves from our own government, we are screwed, we just dont stand a chance against the kinds of weapons our own government has

but, i think that sub machine guns, and full auto rifles up to the 30 caliber variety (308, 30-06, 7.62x54r) should be made for civilian use, but mk19's m2's, and the sort.... i dont want just everyone to have easy access to them, because i dont trust most people not to do something stupid with them, not that i am saying they are idiots, i just dont want to get shot...

 

[M-Cameron]

ok, so i am not saying that no one should be allowed to have full automatic rifles of the large caliber variety, all i am saying is that i dont trust the people around me not to do something stupid, and end up shooting me

......whats preventing them from shooting you with a semi-automatic rifle....?

 

[Justin]

The NFA is good because it strikes just the right balance between owning a machine gun and protecting public safety.

I suppose if I believed the myth that fully-automatic weapons were inherently more dangerous than semi-auto ones, this might almost make sense.

Of course, since you've already stated that machine guns are not good for self defense on page 3 of this very thread, I suppose you already believe that.

Machine guns are toys for collectors.

Which causes my mind to boggle just a bit. Which is it? Are machine guns so inherently dangerous that they must be regulated beyond the ability to be acquired by all but the most wealthy, or are they nothing more than toys that don't perform well for self-defense purposes?

 

[Justin]

im not saying we should be limited to black powder rifles, and im not saying that there shouldnt be newly manufactured civilian full auto rifles, what i am saying is do you really want m2s being available to the general public?

Tell you what. We can have that debate when people are no longer being thrown in prison for putting a bayonet or flash hider on their rifles.

Sam, I did look that up too. At this point however I don't think I'll own guns in HK, considering it is much safer than, say Dallas. Last year stats:

Dallas, Texas: Population : 1,188,204. Number of murders last year 248. number of burglaries 23,184

Hong Kong: Population 7,055,071. Number of murders last year 35, number of burgalries 4,543

Hrm. I wonder. How do you say "due process" in Chinese?

I'm not as hardcore about guns anyways, as long as I can buy as many bolt guns, and a few choice semi autos, I really could care less, and since I'm not going to conceal my Enfield, whether or not those countries allow CC is a nonissue. To each his own, I say.

For a kid who professes such a lack of interest in firearms, you certainly do seem to spend a lot of time on a gun forum arguing with people who have them as a primary interest.

 

[buck460XVR]

Once again a thread has shown me that everyone has an opinion about RKBA and they feel strongly about it. Unfortunately this thread shows me that many cannot accept the opinions of others that differ from their own, even when these different opinions support the same cause. I doubt very much that many, if any, that are members here, are against the RKBA. While I can certainly see the need to separate ourselves from the antis, I see no real reason to divide those that support RKBA. There's a difference between " I don't know why you'd want that gun!" and "You can't have that gun!" Is the 2nd Amendment open to interpretation? Sure it is, one reason the thread is so argumentative. Like religion, many folks interpret it to suit their own needs/wants. Since we live in a Democracy, the interpretation by the majority is what matters. Do not let the antis conquer because we have divided ourselves.

 

[MtnCreek]

i dont want just everyone to have easy access to them, because i dont trust most people not to do something stupid with them

How many ft/lbs of energy does a 3,000 lb car moving at 65 mph produce? I don't want to get ran over by a car....................

Freedom is a scary thing so I understand why some would be frightened by it.

 

[happygeek]

Interstate commerce is one of those ingenious clauses in the constitution that seems to automatically fit the times. Indeed, as the economy has become vastly more complex and interwoven, the federal government's role in regulating commerce has expanded in step.

If the Constitution automatically changes to mean whatever those in power want it to mean ... then what good is it exactly?

 

[azmjs]

If the Constitution automatically changes to mean whatever those in power want it to mean ... then what good is it exactly?

That's not at all what I was referring to.

What I mean is that as commerce becomes more complex, it also becomes, in actual fact, more significantly "interstate," and thus the national government's ability to regulate it grows in proportion to its complexity, even based on a fixed, unchanging interpretation of a fixed, unchanging provision.

 

[azmjs]

So you are saying that a full auto Norell 10/22 is a threat to "public safety" and a semi-auto AR15 is not?

...and a rifle with a 15" barrel is a threat to "public safety"?

How does having to pay an extra $200 protect "public safety"?

Having to pay an extra 200+ (in today's money, the tax has always been higher, because of inflation) helps limit the number of machine guns in circulation.

The hoops you have to jump through to pay the tax are an extra incentive to make sure your machine gun is not misused.

 

[azmjs]

Which causes my mind to boggle just a bit. Which is it? Are machine guns so inherently dangerous that they must be regulated beyond the ability to be acquired by all but the most wealthy, or are they nothing more than toys that don't perform well for self-defense purposes?

I don't see even the slightest reason why something that is a toy can not also be very dangerous.

Consider for instance sports cars, private aviation, etc.

It's worth pointing out that in the post of mine you linked to, I did not actually say, as you claim, that machine guns don't perform well for self defense.

What I said was that they are unnecessary for self defense. If you want a gun to defend yourself with, you're perfectly capable of getting one without having to buy a machine gun, from one of thousands of stores across the country.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

I think we've run out civil discourse surrounding this topic.