Family of armed robber killed by CCP holder calls for more gun control!

[HOOfan_1]

You will notice that while the cousin was the only one willing to appear on camera, it is the family who is pursuing civil charges.

If it doesn't get thrown out, Harrison should sue Williams' estate. Or counter sue the family bringing suit against him.

 

[BullfrogKen]

I know it probably wasn't your intention, but as a combat veteran, I find your comments comparing combat to a felony slightly insulting. I know you're trying to get a point across, but there's a world of difference between serving your country and committing armed robbery.

You can twist my statement and be insulted all you want.


As an Infantry Marine myself, there are all sorts of things I've done that I haven't told my mother - or my wife- because they can't understand and if I told them the things I've done, I don't want to have them look at me that way. And as a combat veteran yourself, you will know of what I speak.


The people who love us don't want to think of the things we're capable of, or the things we've done. And frankly I don't want to tell them.


A very good buddy of mine called me one night and told me his son had called him from Iraq and said, "Dad, I just had to kill someone tonight. That was the first time I've had to kill someone here, and it was face-to-face."

He - a veteran of 30 years in Army combat units going back to Vietnam - said, "OK, son let's talk about it." And when they were done he said, "Don't ever tell this story your mother (his wife). Ever. And don't ever tell your wife, either."


It's not that we aren't proud of what we've done. It's that we want to protect the people we love.


That's a sidebar, but it's connected. The people who love us, whether we are evil or that we do things that "civilized" people don't have to think about that we do in war, don't want to think of family members doing those things.


And I'm am not going to hold family members accountable when they can't think of their sons/brothers/cousins as capable of those acts. They don't get to sit on juries. And in most cases, they don't even get to testify until sentencing - after their family member is convicted.

 

[barnbwt]

I must disagree. I don't think you understand at all Ma's (or cousin's) motivations for wanting gun control. She wanted Harrison disarmed, not her son. If it wasn't for those evil people legally carrying guns and using them to defend themselves then her son would still be alive to continue to pursue his career in "appropriations".

I was unclear (apparently);

"I sort of understand [cousin]'s motivations for wanting gun control; but not [cousin's motivation] for controls on CCW holders [specifically]"
As I said/meant before; I'm sure the cousin's (thanks for the important correction) misplaced resentment is directed at the particular gun that ended his kin's life. I could understand, but not agree with, a desire for no gun to have been in play at all (the goal of gun control), and I could understand hatred of the particular man who ended his kin's life, but I don't understand directing it explicitly* and knowingly at legal carriers in general. It seems an odd response, even for an emotionally driven individual in the midst of grief. I'm saying he's likely been flipped by a local MAIG/etc. syndicate to promote a pet cause. I dunno, it could maybe make sense if the cousin believes the shooting was both justified, and unnecessary (though only the Lord would ever know if that was really the case), in which case removal of only the shooter's gun would have allowed the robbery to complete without bloodshed (maybe ).

The only reason I'm attempting to discern the speaker's motivations is because that is how you dissect an argument; you have to know where the opponent is coming from to anticipate their moves and sidestep them. If he admits the shooting was justified, though obviously regrettable, the point could be made to listeners that the young man would have only been emboldened by a successful robbery and ended up the same way, only having taken more valuables and possibly lives in the meantime. Turning more young men toward this path in the meantime. The point would be mostly irrefutable in a public forum/debate setting. The topic could then be steered toward what motivations/conditions set the hapless robber on this fatal course in the first place.

*gun laws only affect the law abiding, so the end result is the same

 

[NavyLCDR]

If it doesn't get thrown out, Harrison should sue Williams' estate. Or counter sue the family bringing suit against him.

Sue them for emotional damage.

 

[SnowBlaZeR2]

You can twist my statement and be insulted all you want.


As an Infantry Marine myself, there are all sorts of things I've done that I haven't told my mother - or my wife- because they can't understand and if I told them the things I've done, I don't want to have them look at me that way. And as a combat veteran yourself, you will know of what I speak.


The people who love us don't want to think of the things we're capable of, or the things we've done. And frankly I don't want to tell them.


A very good buddy of mine called me one night and told me his son had called him from Iraq and said, "Dad, I just had to kill someone tonight. That was the first time I've had to kill someone here, and it was face-to-face."

He - a veteran of 30 years in Army combat units going back to Vietnam - said, "OK, son let's talk about it." And when they were done he said, "Don't ever tell this story your mother (his wife). Ever. And don't ever tell your wife, either."


It's not that we aren't proud of what we've done. It's that we want to protect the people we love.


That's a sidebar, but it's connected. The people who love us, whether we are evil or that we do things that "civilized" people don't have to think about that we do in war, don't want to think of family members doing those things.


And I'm am not going to hold family members accountable when they can't think of their sons/brothers/cousins as capable of those acts. They don't get to sit on juries. And in most cases, they don't even get to testify until sentencing - after their family member is convicted.

I didn't twist anything. I responded to exactly what you said.

I know exactly what you're talking about, but it's not shame or concern about how they might look at me that keeps me from telling them those things. My wife would never look at me "that way", but she would probably never let me leave the house again. I'm not ashamed of anything I've done, and I'd never compare even the hardest choices I've made to making a choice to threaten innocent people for money.

I don't think you understand my point. I get it. They don't want to think of their children, cousins, etc. as the worthless members of society that they are. That's fine with me. Deny things all you want, even in the face of some pretty solid evidence. When you start to attack other people because you're blinded by your stupidity, that's when I lose all sympathy. I'm not going to go out and actively attack these people, but I will continue to look at them as little better than the thug they raised.

 

[jbrown50]

Deception, deceit, family pride and denial all play roles in how families view their members. To some of them it's a shock to see a loved one doing reprehensible things even on video, especially if that family member made sure to never let them see what kind of person they really are. The typical initial response is to deny it.

 

[Romeo 33 Delta]

One thing for sure, he won't be causing trouble for anyone anymore! End of a recurring problem. That's the GOOD NEWS!

 

[CharlieDeltaJuliet]

So let me get this straight... The mother of the dead robber says the CCW permit holder should not have felt threatened when her son was waving a gun around, robbing a Waffle House...hmm.

Sorry, he just happened to catch the justice end of a bullet. Stupid people never fail to surprise me. Next she will say that her son was only trying to provide for their family..

I personally have no sympathy for people holding other at gunpoint. I think the guy showed excellent gun control by waiting until he had a clear shot.. That IS gun control.

 

[huntsman]

Deception, deceit, family pride and denial all play roles in how families view their members. To some of them it's a shock to see a loved one doing reprehensible things even on video, especially if that family member made sure to never let them see what kind of person they really are. The typical initial response is to deny it.

+1 and I suppose in some families crime is generational so if you got kin doing hard time for big offenses a little armed robbery ain't such a big deal

 

[Red Wind]

I must disagree. I don't think you understand at all Ma's (or cousin's) motivations for wanting gun control. She wanted Harrison disarmed, not her son. If it wasn't for those evil people legally carrying guns and using them to defend themselves then her son would still be alive to continue to pursue his career in "appropriations".

I agree. Their comments were chutzpah squared.

 

[MtnCreek]

If it doesn't get thrown out, Harrison should sue Williams' estate. Or counter sue the family bringing suit against him.

I bet that would be like winning the lottery.

 

[rdhood]

I must disagree. I don't think you understand at all Ma's (or cousin's) motivations for wanting gun control. She wanted Harrison disarmed, not her son. If it wasn't for those evil people legally carrying guns and using them to defend themselves then her son would still be alive to continue to pursue his career in "appropriations".

EXACTLY. She didn't say "I want the person who sold my cousin a gun found and brought to justice". She wants the LEGAL owner of the gun who LEGALLY shot and killed her cousin brought to justice. In searching for blame outside of the perp (and the blame is really with the dead perp), she did not blame the illegal gun trader. She blames the legal gun owner. THAT is twisted. And the media doesn't help one bit. They didn't even mention where the illegal gun came from. They only mention the legal gun that killed the perp.

And as far as the whole "mothers protecting their children" crapola: there is a thug culture for some groups in this country. That thug culture has to be broken if that culture is to EVER succeed in this society. That thug culture is perpetrated by both the thug and his family.

When the fed ex employee opened fire in Marietta, GA a couple weeks ago, his family came on and said "we don't know what went wrong. We are sorry. ". If that same perp had been a part of the thug culture, his family would have said "he was such a good boy". See the difference? One family recognizes the WRONG in their family member, and makes no excuses. The other family says, "he was such a good , happy go lucky, dancing, respectable, etc.". Even if the face of reality after the fact, they cannot see how wrong they are. Only when they stop making excuses for their little thugs will things change in their community for the better. (But, it's easier to blame someone else with the help of liberals...)

 

[Al Thompson]

I've monitored this thread pretty closely. IMHO, we've had a pretty good lay down on the issue, but think it's about run it's course.

Any objectors, feel free to PM me.