Farm defence rifle

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i live in a rural area, in the foothills of some mountains. no trees, just a bunch of sagebrush. i have 7 or 8 neighbors i can see.. maybe within 1/4 mile or so. half of them don't live there, and most of the other half are gunning for these dogs also. and, those who might care don't have a phone and don't really like the police. (not that there are any around other than the occasional stater. they'll come out, but would probably go tell the person who called then out to not bother them again about something like that.) it's the wild wild west out here, baby.

i'm currently borrowing a 12ga singleshot breakaction (i think.. you split it in half to pull out the spent shell..) perhaps a 30/30 is the best way to go. ideally i would like to get to be a decent shot. shotguns don't facilitate that. and, maybe i could just borrow a .22 while i learn to shoot. i have enough open space around that i can shoot as far as the round will go, so long as i don't shoot across the highway.. my father also suggested that i get a larger round than a .22 for the injured dog problem.

i have been asking around. no one really knows whose dogs they are, although i suspect that a couple of them belong to a guy up the hill who is reknowned for not feeding his animals. he was told about it. i've been telling everyone i know that those dogs have a limited lifespan. and, herabouts, word spreads fast. honestly, i don't really care whose dogs they are. i know where i live, and so do they. out here, you let your dogs run and they come home, it's a good day for them. watch your animals if you value them.. goes both ways..

i plan on doing a little bartering if i can. and, if i do barter for some old gun, will i get in trouble for possessing it? wht do i need to do to make sure that it's all okay? is it legal to own a gun without my name being on some crazy list somewhere? is there some informational site on this sort of thing so you all don't have to repeatedly answer my innane ignorant questions?

this also poses another question for me.. how do i find out if i qualify or whatever to pass the fbi check? is there some website that will run my name and info for me? i got in a little trouble when i was a minor. i never dealt with the expungement paperwork, cause it's in a different state.

i appreciate the advice here. thank you all.
it's cool seeing a couple people here from my homestate, alaska. (the big city..juneau). i bet the fellow in the hellyhansons is wearing xtratuffs. i hate those boots.. no offense.


edit: on an extra note, i haven't lost any birds cause my pen it pretty damn tight. but i still don't like the idea of them being around whith those habits.

kim
 
Re: "Farm Defence"

Most farmers I've known have spent a great deal of time repairing their fences and would regard with suspicion any effort to "defence" their land... with a rifle or by any other means! ;) ;)

For farm defense, on the other hand, I'd choose a scout type rifle (Cooper concept) in .308. Handy, quick, while not giving anything up on accuracy.
 
Jordan, artherd, you're missing the point, the guy doesn't have a lot of money.

I agree with the H&R break open suggestion. 12 gauge is fine, but I think I would prefer 20 gauge, because those little shotguns recoil hard.

For fast moving dogs, I think he would want #4 buck. I think 00 isn't going to provide a dense enough pattern for a coyote sized dog past 20 yards or so.

He should also be able to find one in .30-30 for under $100.

Oh, sakredchao, skip the rocksalt. If your target doesn't need to die, don't shoot a gun at it. Those salt loads are a bit more lethal than you would expect, and killing things by accident is bad for your freedom.
 
I'm obviously biased, for I created this potoshop:

249839.jpg


Besides an M1A, I would say an AK or AR. Multi-purpose weapons.
 
For not a whole lot of money, a decent used break open or pump action shotgun can be had in the $100 range. Heck, for dogs, a bolt action shotgun in decent shape can be cheaper than either of the above as they are very much out of favor these days. I'd wager you could get a 12 gauge Mossberg bolt shotgun for $50 without too much trouble. It would have the benefit of having one round in the chamber and two in the magazine, three total shots can beat a single shot. They aren't much to look at, but they can get the job done quite nicely.

In that vein, though, I have a Mossberg 500 pump, 2/34 or 3" magnum with an improved choke tube screwed in that I paid $100 out the door. The wood is in good shape, the reciever has most of the finish on it, and for 1/4 acre it would make quite an effective anti-dog/rabid raccoon weapon.

Ash
 
sak - +1 for Cosmoline - as you are not really a shooter a shotgun would serve you well and is inexpensive. From my perspective chickens are food - people food.
 
yugo SKS, it's cheap (around $100) ammo's cheap ($100 for 1000 hp's) it's semi auto, AND comes with a nice BAYO if you really get into trouble... It should be plenty accurate as well... AND have enough power to kill just about anything you run up against that would be attacking the animals on the farm.
 
Personally

I your neighbors are within 1/4 mile I'd be very careful using a rifle...ricochets and such...I would recommend and SKS(cheap and reliable), but the cheapo ammo is usually hardball, which is prone to ricochet.

Suspect a shotgun is still your best bet..00 buck is pretty effective out to 50 yards, but loses velocity fast, and lead balls aren't likely to ricochet very far....

Rimfire is definite no-no, not nearly enough power to kill a large dog
humanely, unless you can guarantee a perfect headshot. (I have a .22 I use for pest control, but with the scope, I can hit a dime at 50 yards with it. And, if I had to shoot a dog, would probably still opt for shotgun w/ 00 buck)
 
I like the Mosin-Nagant option, but I must admit those are very "foreign" rifles to most eyes and your chances of getting help from a neighbor if you have problems making it work right are slim. The 12 ga. requires less study time.
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firstly: mosins are designed to be conscript proof. If you need help to get it to work right- you may also be the sort that needs to ask a neighbor for problems with tying your shoes. :banghead:

secondly: mosins are built in a way that they operate similar to a mauser action. If you have a bolt action rifle- you already know how to use a mosin.

thirdly: I dare say a mosin has less moving parts than most 12 ga. shotguns out there. They're very cheap, effective at range, require little skill/knowledge to operate and are extremely reliable.
 
well, i'm sold on the idea of not using a .22 for much other than target practice. i'll ask around about an sks and a 30/30. i suspect that availability will determine my choice as much as preference. i think i'd perfer a rifle over a shotgun, cause it would require that i learn to shoot well, something i'd like to do anyway. and, perhaps, someday i'll feel that i'm accurate enough to go hunting and get meat for the year.

i really appreciate everyones' input on this. i wish i had the wherewithal to get some of the nicer firearms mentioned here, but i'm sure that a simple little inexpensive thing will suit my purposes just fine.

thanks!

kim
 
Before I got my Marlin 336 or Mossberg 472, I used a Mosin 91/59 carbine as my own farm rifle. Short enough not to get in the way too much, light enough to carry about as needed, and more powerful than either of my two lever guns. I carried Barnaul 204 grain soft points, which were cheap (and corrosive, regardless of what the package said) and were more than powerful enough for what ever I might encounter. Mine even looked nice with a stock that was a deep, deep reddish brown and perfect bluing.

The Mosin would be the least likely to give any trouble other than a break-open shotgun and would be as reliable a feeder as you can get. But, with such a small lot, I would tend to stick with a shotgun.

Ash
 
Then I would recommend a 30-30 lever gun as it won't cost any more than an SKS and will be more accurate. Plus, it is less likely to frighten neighbors.

Ash
 
ricochets are almost a nonexistant problem where i'd be shooting, it's an old drained lakebed and there are no rocks out there in that direction. also, i live on the top of a hill, and i'd be firing down in every direction except the highway, which i won't aim at. unless sagebrush is going to ricochet a round, which i seriously doubt. i've seen what an ak47 round does to a sagebrush trunk...i'm suprised that the thing was still upright.

but, on the ricochet note. i was considering stacking log rounds 18" - 30" diameter, 2 rows deep for use as a backdrop to target practice. i'd stack them so that i couldn't see light though anywhere, and there is nothing behind them other than a dirt road that is only used 3 times a week, and i can see it pretty good, so i'm not worried about hitting anything on it if a round goes through.. but, my question is, is it likely to ricochet off the flatside of a log round? i have seen those metal targets that swing when you hit em, but i can't fork out the 60$ or whatever they cost for one of them.. log rounds are cheap and easy to aquire. also. is there any danger of a round hitting an old embedded round in the log and doing something undesirable. i sort of know that guns are powerful things, but don't really know what that power does in practice.

thanks all for your patience with my lack of knowledge and endless questions.. and also your patience in hijacking my own thread and asking offtopic questions.

as for scaring the neighbors.. people out here fire off a round every now and again to do just that. well, not so much scare as to communicate "i have a firearm." there is almost no theft or violent crime out here cause everyone has a gun, and most of them carry it around all the time on their hip. it's legal to carry here, but not to conceal without a permit, and not in federal buildings or places that sell alcohol. people will only try to do something stupid if they think you're unarmed.. but of course you all know this already.

there was a time, back in the 70s.. the locals call it the spanish-hippy war. peoples houses were burned down and a lot of rounds were exchanged between both groups. the spanish were trying to drive the hippies off. well, after they realized that a lot of these hippies were vietnam vets and were well armed and well trained, they decided that they were "allright and could stay". which they did, and there's still a lot of prejudice twards the anglos, but that's better than gunshots. rather be hated than holey.

the moral of todays' story is, "a round a day keeps the trouble away."

i reread the whole thread again just for review, and the second post caught my attention, the one about me making it a part of myself. i saw "army of darkness", and i think that is a little excessive. or, was that a chainsaw...

kim
 
shotgun or rifle?

my only concern with the shotgun is if your trying to "remove" the preditors while they are in extremely close to the "prey" that your trying to protect might end up with some freindly fire casulities.
 
i'll fall in with the 30-30 and shotgun crowds. these are the most likely to be available to you cheap, and will certainly do their part once you've learned how to do yours.

can you measure the longest shot you'll have to take? i think it might help a bit.
 
The SKS sounds like it would be the most bang for your buck. Check out Aim Surplus as they have thiers for $100-150. I would get an excellent condition Yugo 59 myself, if you can still find one. AMMO can be found very cheaply as well.

The SKS is not a beginners gun but, it would likely do what you want. As far as the .22 not bieng able to kill dogs, well I doubt that. I really close friend of mine takes deer all the time with CCI stingers :uhoh:, I know I know I try to tell him its wrong but, he claims to have excellent results with lung shots.

Anyways, my point is that something like a 10/22 Carbine would work for 50 yard shots or so and make a great training gun for right around $150.

But, If you want something to practice with and kill dogs at 100 yard ranges than I have to reccomend a Marlin 982. They can be bought at Wal-Mart for about $200 or so and they are really a perfect gun for a beginner varmint shooter. Mine shoots under 1 MOA and my dad has taken a coyote with it at about 120 yards.

I would get the Marlin for your particular purposes but, if you want an all-around rifle than the SKS fits the bill.
 
these dogs seem to like to stick to the roads when they're running away. if they run into the sagebrush it slows them down and they have to jump over it, or zigzag around it.

i have a clear, straight road (thanks to my pickaxe) for about 1000 feet or so, if i'm remembering my land map correctly. so i think the projectile would run out of effective range before my clear shot was gone.

as for the dogs being near my birds, they haven't and probably won't. i made the lower 4 feet out of wooden pallets, and have rocks around the base to prevent digging, and chickenwire above it up to 12 feet. i don't have the money to lose birds to predators. but again, they have unacceptable habits, so i'm going to deal with them.

i don't ever plan to shoot at anything that is actually -on- my land. i would wait for it to leave my land and then let off a round. my place is too crowded to be firing shots at anything.

i'll probably pick an empty lot around me to set up a range, so i can practice at ranges of 50-100 yards, which is about what i'd expect to be shooting the dogs at..

kim
 
how do i find out if i qualify or whatever to pass the fbi check? is there some website that will run my name and info for me? i got in a little trouble when i was a minor. i never dealt with the expungement paperwork, cause it's in a different state.
Click to expand...

Q: "Are there certain persons who cannot legally receive or possess firearms?"

A: "Yes, a person who –

(1) Has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year;
(2) Is a fugitive from justice;
(3) Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance;
(4) Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to a mental institution;
(5) Is an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United states or an alien admitted to the United states under a nonimmigrant visa;
(6) Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
(7) Having been a citizen of the United states, has renounced his or her 8 citizenship;
(8) Is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner; or
(9) Has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence cannot lawfully receive, possess, ship, or transport a firearm. A person who is under indictment or information for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year cannot lawfully receive a firearm. Such person may continue to lawfully possess firearms obtained prior to the indictment or information. [18 U. S. C. 922( g) and (n), 27 CFR 178.32( a) and (b)]"

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b5
 
How about a Lee Enfield? Plenty of power, loud as hell, and the no.4 mk.1 has aperature sights and a lighning-fast bolt-action. 10 round detachable magazine that can be loaded with stripper clips to boot.

Gun: Mine was 150 in very good condition.
Ammo: Corrosive surplus: 8 bucks for 32 rounds or non-corrosive portugese is 7 bucks for 20 rounds.
 
firstly: mosins are designed to be conscript proof. If you need help to get it to work right- you may also be the sort that needs to ask a neighbor for problems with tying your shoes.
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I love Mosins, and I've owned several dozen of them over the years. The fact is, there's quite a bit about them that is very different from anything made stateside. If you get one, you can expect to do some on-line research about how to break down the bolt and put it back together at the very least. There's also the matter of selecting ammunition, which can be complicated. For someone who has NO interest in doing any homework, I would not recommend a Mosin or ANY European rifle. I'd suggest a Mossberg 500 slugster or a .30/30. These are going to be far more familiar to most folks in the country, and you don't have to worry about corrosive ammunition.
 
love Mosins, and I've owned several dozen of them over the years. The fact is, there's quite a bit about them that is very different from anything made stateside. If you get one, you can expect to do some on-line research about how to break down the bolt and put it back together at the very least. There's also the matter of selecting ammunition, which can be complicated. For someone who has NO interest in doing any homework, I would not recommend a Mosin or ANY European rifle. I'd suggest a Mossberg 500 slugster or a .30/30. These are going to be far more familiar to most folks in the country, and you don't have to worry about corrosive ammunition.
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the bolt is rather simple once you get past the basic mechanics- assuming he ever bothers to strip it. 5 minutes browsing www.surplusrifle.com will answer any questions regarding that. :cool:

I find just buying winchester white box 7.62 x 54 solves the guesswork of picking ammos. as with any military weapons- you can find cheaper milsurp but there are actually quite a few companies that make new production mosin ammo.


The SKS is not a beginners gun but, it would likely do what you want.
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not exactly rocket science either. Of most milsurp rifles out there I would say the SKS is more accomadating to a beginner due to the hardiness of the mechanisms, simple operation and access to replacement parts.
 
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