Fast and Furious Gun Control Plot was Widely Known

[Stony Lane]

From Investor's Business Daily:

Scandal: A drug enforcement agent says other agencies knew in 2009 about the Justice Department's gunrunning operation and even tried to interdict the weapons flow. And, yes, it was a gun-control plot. The notion that Fast and Furious was a localized operation run out of the Phoenix office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives of which few, particularly the arguably clueless Attorney General Eric Holder, were aware continues to be exposed as the lie it is. "In 2009, I became aware that ATF was walking guns," Tony Coulson, who was in charge of the Drug Enforcement Agency-Tucson...

Full article:

http://news.investors.com/Article.aspx?id=600998&ibdbot=1

 

[Ky Larry]

The stink just gets worse and worse.

 

[Kingcreek]

Yea, but when does any of it start to stick to the community organizer in chief or Holder?

 

[ExTank]

Not as long as ABC/CBS/NBC are run by anti-gun proponents.

 

[alsaqr]

Holder will never be held accountable. According to the below linked article; US House Speaker Boehner is working on a deal with Holder. In exchange for the firing of a couple underlings; Boehner would stop the hearings in the House.

http://www.westernjournalism.com/jo...stigation-sell-out-to-holder-and-white-house/

The Committee will accept the scalps of [Lanny] Breuer and [Jason] Wienstein, DOJ will release enough of the (documents) to condemn them, claim cooperation (thus giving the appearance of recognizing congress’s oversight authority), and Holder will survive – looking like a “leader” for offering them up (along with a few lower level ATF and DOJ folk). The Committee will chalk one in the “Win” column for oversight and holding people accountable. DOJ will have the same for cooperating and accountability.

Yep, it sounds like a win, win deal for everyone except all those folks who were killed by F&F guns.

 

[Romeo 33 Delta]

I hate "deals" ... I'd rather we just kept wackin' them until someone cracks or we get something hard. Then nail their hearts to the wall!

 

[Zeke/PA]

What else can you expect from a corrupt Congress.
The state of our economy and Our Country bears this out.
No Bi-Partasainship AT ALL except for when they are voting perks for themselves.

 

[Davek1977]

Not as long as ABC/CBS/NBC are run by anti-gun proponents.

If you weren't paying attention, the first mainstream coverage of Fast And Furious originated with CBS.

 

[Twmaster]

Holder will never be held accountable. According to the below linked article; US House Speaker Boehner is working on a deal with Holder. In exchange for the firing of a couple underlings; Boehner would stop the hearings in the House.

http://www.westernjournalism.com/joh...d-white-house/

That seems to be a hoax. I'm awaiting conformation from a friendly source.

If you weren't paying attention, the first mainstream coverage of Fast And Furious originated with CBS.

Exactly. I'm also hearing reports on NPR and other outlets.

 

[JohnBT]

"A drug enforcement agent says"

1) Is there corroborating evidence or only his word?

2) When was the last time anybody on a gun board believed the word of a DEA agent?

 

[ThorinNNY]

Mark Twain said " We have the finest legislature money can buy".
I suspect if he were alive today he would also say something like" And now, we also have the finest President foreign interests can buy"

 

[wojownik]

Fox news ran a similar piece for days ago:
http://nation.foxnews.com/fast-and-...gencies-knew-about-operation-fast-and-furious

Coulson is not longer with the DEA. For the past year+ he's been head of a company that provides substance abuse training for communities and law enforcement.

 

[Pilot]

This is a FAR worse scandal than Watergate, yet the mainstream media and even the Republicans are willing to give them a pass. Despicable.

 

[USAF_Vet]

What is that paper in the toilet? Oh, it's just the Constitution, nothing important.

 

[Autolycus]

THis was actually happening under Bush as well. I would think we should blame him as it this gun walking started there.

 

[Stony Lane]

The gun tracing program under the Bush administration was under strict control and was an actual honest attempt to identify criminals. They actually followed the guns with the knowledge and cooperation of the Mexican government. I was told that when they lost track of a single gun, the program was ended.

The Obama "program" was an under-the-radar attempt to ramp up support for gun control. They wanted US guns to be found south of the border - no matter what the cost.

 

[Cesiumsponge]

Does anyone have links to the facts of how the programs ran under Bush? I need facts to substantiate any claims. I won't let wishful thinking mutate into facts. I would think Democrats would work hard to demonize the same type of program under a Republican administration.

 

[22-rimfire]

Tin foil hat time... I tend to believe the black helicopter view of Fast & Furious as more evidence comes out. Obama and Holder did not care about Mexican citizens as it was all about creating a reason for further restrictions on the US citizentry regarding firearms. Proving this is another matter..... by the time there is any proof, Obama will be out of office (whether it be in one year or 5 years) and the political will will be from types like Pelosi and Reid will be "let's fix this so it never happens again", but not because they want to, only because they were caught. Everyone gets off scott free except for the Mexican citizens that were killed and our border patrol agents. This whole thing would still be going on if it wasn't for the death of the Border Patrol agent.

 

[leadcounsel]

Google the Youtube video that shows the administration and Holder knew about it. THAT WAS 2009!!!

 

[Stony Lane]

Try this link for differences between the Bush and Obama programs.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2805605/posts

 

[SaxonPig]

No no no... didn't you hear the report from Democrats in Congress? It was just a couple of rogue agents in the Phoenix office. Holder had NOTHING to do with it. Obama's justice dept. had NOTHING to do with it.

 

[Bobson]

Holder will never be held accountable. According to the below linked article; US House Speaker Boehner is working on a deal with Holder. In exchange for the firing of a couple underlings; Boehner would stop the hearings in the House.

I don't understand how this kind of thing ever flies. Even the most naive person should easily be able to recognize that an operation of this scale doesn't get put into motion by any level of underling. Its sad that the trait most often impressed upon entry-level criminal justice employees, across the board and without exception, is integrity. However, as the pyramid reaches its peak, that characteristic seems to dissolve more and more.

I can't really say this without coming across as being naive myself, but its hard for me to understand how people allow themselves to portray such excellent examples of dishonesty and injustice. Its a sad world we live in... I don't know how some people can look at themselves in the mirror every day.

 

[ATBackPackin]

Google the Youtube video that shows the administration and Holder knew about it. THAT WAS 2009!!!

Is this the one you are talking about?

http://www.youtube.com/user/MidNightRider2001?ob=0#p/u/0/-PNhYk9NuNc

 

[Carl N. Brown]

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

The first known ATF "gunwalking" operation to Mexican drug cartels, named Operation Wide Receiver, began in early 2006 and ran into late 2007. Licensed dealer Mike Detty informed the ATF of a suspicious gun purchase that took place in February 2006 in Tucson, Arizona. In March he was hired as a confidential informant working with the ATF's Tucson office, part of their Phoenix, Arizona field division. With the use of surveillance equipment, ATF agents monitored additional sales by Detty to straw purchasers. With assurance from ATF "that Mexican officials would be conducting surveillance or interdictions when guns got to the other side of the border", Detty would sell a total of about 450 guns during the operation. These included AR-15s, AK-47s and Colt .38s. The vast majority of the guns were eventually lost as they moved into Mexico.

references

Paul Barrett, "The Guns That Got Away", Bloomberg Businessweek, 21 Dec 2011.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/the-guns-that-got-away-11172011.html

Tim Steller, "Newell's role, Mexico's participation and more on ATF's Tucson operation", Arizona Daily Star, 12 Oct 2011.
http://azstarnet.com/news/blogs/senor-reporter/article_01700a28-f502-11e0-989c-001cc4c002e0.html

"Informant: ATF "gun walking" went on for ears", CBS News, 5 Oct 2011.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/10/05/earlyshow/main20115824.shtml

Sari Horwitz, "Earlier ATF gun operation ‘Wide Receiver’ used same tactics as ‘Fast and Furious’", Washington Post, 7 Oct 2011.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...-and-furious/2011/10/06/gIQAuRHIRL_story.html

Detty originally sold six AR15 lowers to a guy who asked for 20 more. Concerned that the guy was acting as an illegal dealer, Detty contacted ATF who encouraged him to sell AR15 lowers from his home with full ATF surveillance. The guy told Detty on tape that they were being converted to fullauto M16s at a safe house and going to Mexico.
Detty is now convinced that ATF supervisors not only lied to him about having the Mexican government on board, but lied to the ATF field agents he cooperated with.

However, the Democrat Minority report "Fatally Flawed: Five Years of Gunwalking in Arizona" Jan 2012 does claim that the ATF unsuccessfully tried to coordinate with Mexico in the Bush-era Wide Receiver. On page 20: "Special Agent in Charge Newell wrote that the Tucson field office was planning to secure the cooperation of Mexican authorities: "The Tucson II Field Office has maintained contact with the ATF Mexico City Country Office in an effort to secure the cooperation and join investigation with the Agencia Federal de Investigación (Mexico). Three Tucson II Field Office SA (ATF special agents) have obtained official U.S. Government passports in anticipation of a coordination meeting with the AFI early during calendar year 2007." "

In the blow up of a similar case, sometimes attached to Wide Receiver 2006-2007 but other times cited seperately as the Hernandez case, handled by the same ATF Phoenix field office:

The "gunwalking" method of Operation Wide Receiver (2006-2007) was questioned at ATF HQ by Acting Director for Field Operation William Hoover and the operation terminated by Phoenix ATF SAC William Newell 6 Oct 2007 after Mexican police failed to interdict gun traffickers after they crossed into Mexico.

reference

Jason Ryan, "Documents Highlight Bush-Era Incident Pre-Dating ‘Fast and Furious’"], ABC News, Oct 14, 2011.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politic...eal-previous-problems-with-atf-phoenix-cases/

Newell was later involved in Operation Fast and Furious (2009-2010), after Dennis Burke was assigned to the Phoenic USAO in October 2009 by Pres. Barak Obama. Fast and Furious started out of the Phoenix USAO and ATF offices in Nov 2009. Between 1989 and 1994, Burke was a driving force behind the federal Assualt Weapon Ban and had made gun control a lifelong goal. When OF&F blew up, Burke "retired" and has been unavailable. Pat Cunningham of the Phoenix USAO has taken the Fifth over OF&F. Fast and Furious had no pretense of interdicting the guns, or of involving Mexican authorities in interdicting the guns.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Holder will never be held accountable.

I'm sorry to tell you I'm afraid he'll never be held accountable in a court of law; conversely, I'm very sure history will hold him accountable.

All too many people in high places believe history is over. They're rock-solid wrong. Sometimes sooner, sometimes later, the facts show up, and historians assemble them into coherent, intelligible patterns and publish them in books. If that seems too sweeping an assertion, consider this, please: the Watergate scandal that dates to 1972 is already very well understood, and anyone can view the whole pictue by noodling around on the internet and reading a few books.

I doubt Holder will ever see the inside of a prison cell; I'm also very sure the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth will see the light of day in due time. Oh, by the way, thre's some bad news in that, too: a generation hence, people are going to wonder why we didn't stand up and do anything about Fast & Furious. People way back in 2012 may not have had all the facts at their disposal, but they knew enough to understand dozens and possibly even hundreds of federal felonies had been committed. People are going to say, "Too bad they didn't do anything."