Fastest to Fire?

[jad0110]

Doesn't really apply if you can't hit what you are aiming at. I've seen a guy at a range empty what appeared to be a Glock 17 with a 30+ round magazine at a bullseye type target 7 yards away. From what I could tell, I think he hit the target maybe 7 times .

For me personally, I can shoot my semi auto a little faster, but I am far more accurate with my revolvers. I suspect that human beings are not capable of "outrunning" either design.

 

[bowfin]

I think it has been proven over time that the speediest pistoleros in history could shoot a DA revolver faster than any semiautomatic pistol, and yes, they were accurate, even at those speeds.

I'm not sure the original gist of the thread was meant to include fully automatic weapons, but then do we count the various miniguns as "revolving" weapons, since their barrels rotate on an axis?

 

[Cosmoline]

The wheelgun is faster than a semiauto, no question. The human hand can cycle the action of the wheelgun faster than the human hand can work the semiauto action. Comparing either to a full auto is apples and oranges, for the reasons stated above.

 

[JohnKSa]

Comparing either to a full auto is apples and oranges, for the reasons stated above.

There are several examples of full-auto variants to common semi-auto pistols. If anything, these guns are modified to SLOW the cyclic rate compared to the standard semi-auto configuration. Even so, the cyclic rate of these variants is always more than 1,000 rpm--usually significantly more. 1,500rpm would be a more generally correct number.

By using 1,000rpm as a comparison speed (knowing that it's a low number), it's pretty obvious that there is no one currently shooting a DA revolver as fast as a typical semi-auto can cycle.

I have seen an SA revolver fanned faster than that (using thumb for one shot and little finger of the same hand for the second) which proved that a revolver is capable of shooting faster than a semi-auto. However, I have yet to see any evidence to suggest that anyone has a finger fast and strong enough to work a DA revolver faster than the slide can cycle on a typical semi-auto.

 

[loki.fish]

John, you're not understanding what's being explained. What they are saying is, in full auto, you don't have to reset the trigger. In a semi-automatic pistol, you have to release the trigger enough to reset it before you can pull it again. Therefore, the semi-auto is slower.

Everybody forget about fully automatic pistols....they have no reason to be brought up in this thread.

 

[RecoilRob]

The original question was 'theoretically' which is faster? Of course, the auto would be as no one could EVER 'wait on the slide'.

Watch slo-motion film of the aforementioned 1911 firing...it has cycled and fed the new round before it has fully recoiled in the hand.

Now, in Real Life, the revolver might just be faster...mainly because of the much stronger trigger reset spring. Most autos' don't have very strong springs pushing the trigger mechanism back (ala reset) in the interest of a light pull.

If you built an auto with a 12lb SA pull, and if you practiced with it, and if you are a mutant human like Mr. Miculeck, I have no doubt that the auto would be faster just from the reduction in trigger movement needed to accomplish the deed.

So, in theory, the auto wins. IMHO.

 

[JohnKSa]

What they are saying is, in full auto, you don't have to reset the trigger. In a semi-automatic pistol, you have to release the trigger enough to reset it before you can pull it again. Therefore, the semi-auto is slower.

If trigger reset were the issue that is slowing down auto-pistol shooters, then the LONGER trigger reset of a DA revolver would slow down revolver shooters even MORE.

The fastest revolver shooters can NOT go through a full trigger cycle (trigger pull, trigger release/reset, trigger pull again) as fast as an autopistol slide can cycle. That means that the autopistol slide has already cycled and is WAITING for the shooter's trigger finger in EVERY case.

The ONLY situation I am aware of in which it has been demonstrated that a revolver can actually be shot faster than a semi-auto can cycle is by fanning an SA revolver using the technique I mentioned earlier.

 

[sturmgewehr]

I would say the fastest gun I've ever seen fired is a single action 1873 Colt type revolver and it was fired by Jim Ogelsby. He fired 3 rounds so fast that even with recording equipment I couldn't distinguish between the individual shots. He also hit 3 different targets.

This isn't Jim, but I did a Youtube search to find an example of what I'm talking about. This guy is using blanks, but Jim uses live ammo. The times I've seen Jim do it, he was using 45LC or a .44 Mag.

Jim owns Oglesby & Oglesby Gun Makers in Springfield Illinois and has been a featured shooter on Guns and Ammo television.

 

[.38 Special]

Several people mentioned McGivern so I'm surprised no one brought up the machines he developed to mechanically actuate triggers. With those machines, he did find that the DA revolver was capable of a higher cyclic rate than the semi-auto. And yes, both action types were/are capable of firing about twice as fast as McGivern's 5 shot speed records.

I will try to find an online link to those experiments, but don't hold out much hope. Despite the recent revolver resurgence, searching out detailed info about McGivern, Jordan, etc. hasn't been very fruitful for me.

 

[Phil DeGraves]

No one mentioned that Commander Style or Officer Model pistols have a shorter slide stroke than do full size Gov't models, and the 9mm is a shorter case than the .45. This means that a Officer's model 9mm would cycle faster than the larger guns in larger calibers even if trigger reset is equal. The Single action revolvers that are "speed shot" or fanned are not stock guns. They have short actions in them and extended hammers to make fanning easy. So if you can't count full auto pistols, then you can't count these tricked out SA revolvers either.
Ordinary people with equal training will generally learn to shoot the semi-auto pistol faster than they will a revolver.

 

[Ankeny]

This question has been discussed to death for many years. While I full well understand the notion that the mechanics of a revolver make it (in theory) capable of firing faster than a revolver, in practical terms, the advantage (if there is one) isn't apparant. For instance, figure out the splits on Jerry Miculek's speed record, then look at the splits of countless accomplished IPSC shooters who use bottom feeders of the 1911 variety. Even the best revolver shooters in the world can't keep up with the 1911 split monsters.

 

[Dr.Rob]

But the question wasn't on split times.

6 rounds.

That's it.

Jerry and Ed can do it faster than anyone with an auto pistol I've met. Obviously not 'ordinary people.'

I've got a buddy who is a photographer that started accidently double tapping my BHP clone. He was used to a camera that you hold down the button to focus and could feel the reset.

The bad thing was he was doing this BEFORE he was fully back on target so the second round would go high. But with practice, and due no doubt to his highrened sensitivity he could probably learn to make that thing sound like a full auto. Don't know anyone who can make a revolver do that out of the box.

For most it's an auto, for a select few elite it's a revolver.

 

[JohnKSa]

Wasn't the question about "mechanical capability"?

 

[Waywatcher]

An auto's slide does it's duty way faster than any human can pull the trigger again.

A human can't 'outrun' either gun, so it's not real important.

 

[Ryder]

I believe a revolver can run faster but that's very hard on it's mechanism. I prefer they run right and last long.

I can double the rate of cetain semi-autos using light loads to reduce the amount of slide over-travel. They don't mind