FBI gathers info on 3,501 people in 2005

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12536627/

The FBI secretly sought information last year on 3,501 U.S. citizens and legal residents from their banks and credit card, telephone and Internet companies without a court's approval, the Justice Department said Friday.

It was the first time the Bush administration has publicly disclosed how often it uses the administrative subpoena known as a national security letter, which allows the executive branch of government to obtain records about people in terrorism and espionage investigations without court approval.

The FBI delivered a total of 9,254 NSLs relating to 3,501 people in 2005, according to a report submitted late Friday to Democratic and Republican leaders in the House and Senate. In some cases, the bureau demanded information about one person from several companies.

The department also reported it received a secret court's approval for 155 warrants to examine business records last year, under a Patriot Act provision that includes library records. However, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales has said the department has never used the provision to ask for library records.

So how does THR feel? Is an administrative letter from the FBI to your local credit card company sufficient for the company to cough up that information? On the one hand, I don't care for the precedent. On the other, I am encouraged that the recent Patriot Act renewal mandated this information be disclosed to the public and that the power has been used rarely.

 

[Sindawe]

Well, if I gave free vent to my feelings on this, I'd give Art's Grandma a stroke and be banned from the site.

No, I do not think an adminisrative letter is sufficient for a credit company, library or other organization to produce their records of my activities.

 

[Reno]

30 invasions of privacy a day is not "rarely"

 

[Optical Serenity]

No big deal

I don't see an issue with it. I'm not hiding anything, and I'm certainly not a terrorist. What I do want is for each time I get in an airplane, go to the movies, go to a sports game, I feel safe.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Investigating library records requires a warrant according to this story, so an administrative letter is not sufficient.

30 invasions of privacy a day is not "rarely"

I guess "rarely" is a subjective term. In a nation of almost 300 million, it represents about 0.001% of the population. Considering that we convicted over 1.1 million felons in 2005, it doesn't even represent 1% of that much smaller population.

I don't see an issue with it. I'm not hiding anything, and I'm certainly not a terrorist. What I do want is for each time I get in an airplane, go to the movies, go to a sports game, I feel safe.

Well, gee why stop there? Shouldn't you have a right to feel safe anywhere you roam? Why not a right not to be offended as well? How far are you willing to take that?

 

[SomeKid]

I hope some company finally stands up and says it is not enough, then sues the crap out of the government, and wins. Is it possible to bankrupt the FBI?

 

[mattcat]

isnt that what the big fight between google and the goverment was about lately, the goverment wanted access to who searched for what and gogle refused

 

[Waitone]

Lemme see if I got it right:

Fed.gov obtaining credit report without warrant = bad

Private loan company obtaining credit report without permission = ok

I am as suspicious and cynical about unrestrained federal power as anyone on THR. I however refuse to get hot and lathered about the federales doing without court permission what private companies can do without permission from the target. My preference is to throw a blanket over credit reporting scams and plain stop it. It is being used for things it was never intended for. If a commercial company can peek into my credit history I see no reason to poor mouth the federales.

There exists lots of dangers down the road with some elements of the Patriot Act. Let's all get huffy over real threats.

 

[Kodiaz]

I say neither one should be able to get anything without permission.


So these stinkin no good corporations steal your personal information why should the FBI now be allowed to do so as well.


Total govt. corruption is why you get three credit cards in the mail per week. It should not be legal for companies to go sorting through your private life without permission. And it definitely shouldn't be legal for any govt. agency to do so.

 

[Molon Labe]

I don't see an issue with it. I'm not hiding anything, and I'm certainly not a terrorist. What I do want is for each time I get in an airplane, go to the movies, go to a sports game, I feel safe.

That's fine. But some of us value liberty more than safety.

 

[DKSuddeth]

can someone show me where the right to feel safe is listed in the constitution? I'm pretty sure that there's the right to protect and defend your safety, but i've never seen the right to 'feel' safe.

and nothing to hide? i've hated this strawman the moment it was launched. this 'nothing to hide, nothing to fear' argument should have gone back to england with the redcoats.

 

[AirForceShooter]

I think somebody might want to put about three zeros behind that number.

AFS

 

[Malone LaVeigh]

The FBI is required to release that information; the NSA is not. We wouldn't know about Bush's wiretap shenanigans if it weren't for an unauthorized leak.

Now, doesn't that make you feel better?

 

[Derek Zeanah]

You know, when we were talking about the whole WMD thing and the administration was making an argument for war, I made a few comments that "reading between the lines" suggested they didn't have any solid WMD evidence. I was shouted down, called paranoid, and the rest.

I think there's something to be said for reading between the lines. What's said, what wasn't said, what actions would a rational person take in the administration's shoes if their statements were the truth, etc.

My feeling on this is that we're not even looking at the tip of the iceberg. I think we're talking about, if not all phone traffic being monitored, then at least all traffic in major metropolitan areas. I believe the same is being done with Internet traffic as well -- at least for traffic analysis purposes (though I don't doubt more thorough monitoring is being done if those NSA types have the hardware and algorithms to perform sifting of that kind of data.)

Call me paranoid and shout me down. We might just revisit this topic in another 3 years.

 

[sm]

Derek ,
I agreed with you then, agree with you now.

We The People are not being told the truth. We are being brainwashed and indoctrinated according to a Government Agenda.

Not a new propaganda, We (The US) has done so, so have others as History teaches us..

Open the door a wee bit and who knows what-all and whom-all will take advantage and open that door wider.

My Social Security Card says "Not for Personal Identfication Purposes".

Jewish folks "warned" of any "numbering system", and folks "said" while they understood the Jews being "sensitive" this SSN was "different".

Humm..dang old history, keeps messing with government control lies...truth keeps coming out.

Steve

 

[seeker_two]

...and maybe Hillary can offer Bush some helpful advice on where to store all those FBI files...

 

[tyme]

I don't see an issue with it. I'm not hiding anything, and I'm certainly not a terrorist. What I do want is for each time I get in an airplane, go to the movies, go to a sports game, I feel safe.

I'm supposed to care that you feel unsafe? You alone control your feelings.

You should be much more scared of driving than of a terrorist attack. The fact that you're not demonstrates how successful this big-brother anti-terrorism political propaganda has been in winning over the hearts and minds of the people.

 

[Standing Wolf]

My feeling on this is that we're not even looking at the tip of the iceberg.

Sad to say, I'm afraid you're probably right.

 

[Kodiaz]

I don't think iceberg is the right analogy.

A cup of water out of the ocean is probably more appropiate.

 

[bogie]

Only 3,501?

And we're paying them HOW much?

Heck, I pretty much thought they'd have dossiers of every "arab student" in the country.

Sheesh.

(the above is not sarcasm)

 

[BIGJACK]

Lets face it folks, some people on this site would approve the pouring of $3.00a gallon gasonline on their homes and throwing a match to it, if the "GWB and company" were those doing it.:banghead:

 

[jefmad]

I don't see an issue with it. I'm not hiding anything, and I'm certainly not a terrorist. What I do want is for each time I get in an airplane, go to the movies, go to a sports game, I feel safe.

If you have not yet figured out that safety is an illusion I am suprised that you appreciate this forum.

 

[bogie]

It's not that we're blind Bush supporters - we just perceive the Republican party as the lesser of two evils. When the challenging party's only usable strategy is "vote for anyone but the other people" because they can't field a decent candidate, hey, you tell me.

 

[Geno]

Maybe if they locked the door at night, they'd sleep better?

How can the feds talk about "security" when they leave the danged door wide open, 24/7?!?!?!?!?! Then, they violate American citizen's Constitutional rights, tracking us, while the illegals go undetected? Does anyone else "smell" something?

I'll be glad to exercise my Constitutional right to vote.

Doc2005

 

[BIGJACK]

I was a "dues paying member" of the Republican Nationional Committee until 2003. Voted for W the first go round but credit myself for not making the same mistake twice.

I am not even sure ole slick willie was wrong to have a little sexual encounter with a consenting adult female and I will not try to expound on the "positive" things resulting from his administration, but will go so far as to say that I don;t recall many "bad" things-towards the people of America.

I am sorry to say that I cannot say the same for GWB who, in my opinion is guilty of violations to the Constitution of the US and maybe even treason-I think that is what we historically call those who reveal the identities of American spies. For these reason, as well as many others, I as well as atleast 65% of the amrican public, fail to recognize the "GWB republican party" as the lesser of any evils