Feasibility of saving money on 9mm with handloading/reloading

[mboylan]

Nowhere in RealGun's post did I see him condemning lead bullets or spreading mis-information. All he was doing was informing an inexperienced potential new reloader of things that he should be aware of.

Agree casting and loading lead bullets is not for newbies. It can get complicated.

 

[goon]

Come to think of it, I think I did have leading with very hard bullets loaded in .38 Special once. I think they were something like 18 Brinell and designed for .357 velocities. I figured "They're the right size and weight, they're gonna make it out the end of the barrel, they ought to work." They shot fine, but I do remember getting some lead out of the bore during cleaning. I didn't know lead could be too hard...

Guess maybe I'll stick to the swaged lead bullets from Speer for .38 Special from now on.

FWIW, I think they'd be fine for anyone who sticks to published data in the Speer manual. There is data specifically for them and the 148 grain wadcutters, and they're using some kind of dry lube on them, so they're really no more trouble to work with than a jacketed bullet (in my opinion).

 

[LT.Diver]

I cast my bullets and I stocked way up on powder and primers many years ago, so in my case the difference is vast. But even with today's prices on components you will absolutely save money and shoot more.
And, if you read your reloading books from cover to cover like many of us do you will learn more about your guns and ammo then you did.
Heck, even if you only saved 10%, and you shoot a few thousand rounds a year, well you do the math, but you will certainly save.

 

[armoredman]

RealGun, I was not intending to "bully bait" you, I was looking to see what your thought process was. Posting this;

I had in mind commercial lead bullets, which too often arrive oversized and which are rarely in my experience fully described for the recommended application, leaving the new user susceptible to choosing the suboptimal bullet.

Then yes, your comments make perfect sense, and I don't disagree that many of the commercially cast bullets are wrong.

In that context, saying one never gets leading is either disingenuous or ignoring the context.

Accusing me of lying, eh? Come on down and see. I also said I used to get leading until I found the right mix. My molds drop oversize and then are properly sized to my firearms, and yes, ArchAngel, good point, I had not mentioned that, thank you for bringing it up. I'm so used to mine being the right size that I forget others aren't. For instance, one buddy has a gun ostensibly produced in 38 Smith and Wesson that actually has a .34 caliber bore...

Agree casting and loading lead bullets is not for newbies. It can get complicated.

True that - I was loading for about 5 years before I started casting my own. Merely helping to answer the OP question, and then it went sideways.
I'll go back to my original statement - it's a hobby, and I don't cost out hobbies past the original budgeting. The savings are nice, but not as much fun as tailoring loads to my personal firearms. That's fun.

 

[goon]

Another thing - what I find "acceptable" may be horrible for you. Some people are far better marksmen than I am. Some of you are trying to get one hole groups out of customized K-frame .38's. I'm shooting a J-frame and an SP-101 and using cast lead bullets for cheap practice. We're obviously looking for different things in our projectiles.

I got some cast bullets in the classifieds here - almost 500 - for a great price because the guy who bought them didn't like how they shot. I'm perfectly happy with them.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

I buy bullets from Berry's and use range brass (indoor range - picked up within minutes of it hitting the floor) and buy primers and powder. My premium "go to" 9mm rounds run me 15 cents a round and are comparable to a high end SD round.

Not only does this allow me to practice with exactly what I carry but it has allowed me to concoct a round that suits my individual pistols and is high performance as well as highly reliable and "tuned" to that gun which is something I cannot put a price on. Literally custom, tight tolerance, high performance preferred ammunition at cheaper than the cheapest factory ammunition available.

VooDoo

 

[armoredman]

goon, nothing wrong with that. if it makes you happy, then absolutely, go for it. I don't go the whole nine yards like some bench rest shooters I know, but like you, I'm having fun nd saving money as an afterthought.

 

[RealGun]

I buy bullets from Berry's and use range brass (indoor range - picked up within minutes of it hitting the floor) and buy primers and powder. My premium "go to" 9mm rounds run me 15 cents a round and are comparable to a high end SD round.

I don't think of plated bullets as a performer for self defense. Not unusual for a 9mm, I realize, but I will use the hollow points.

 

[Artofgolf]

I don't think of plated bullets as a performer for self defense. Not unusual for a 9mm, I realize, but I will use the hollow points.

New products might have an impact on your opinion

Berry's Hybrid Hollow-Point (HHP)

I'm waiting for the 9mm version ~ 2015 ETA

 

[RealGun]

Originally Posted by RealGun
I don't think of plated bullets as a performer for self defense. Not unusual for a 9mm, I realize, but I will use the hollow points.

New products might have an impact on your opinion

Click image for larger versionName: BerrysHHP.jpgViews: 3Size: 9.5 KB
ID: 205080 Berry's Hybrid Hollow-Point (HHP)

I'm waiting for the 9mm version ~ 2015 ETA

Fascinating! What is the report about velocities suitable for this bullet? Only the current offering of 40 S&W (versus 45 ACP) might run supersonic. I think of regular plated as limited, lest the bullet come apart. The 9mm, commonly running well over the sound barrier, raises new questions.

 

[Artofgolf]

Fascinating! ......I think of regular plated as limited, lest the bullet come apart. The 9mm, commonly running well over the sound barrier, raises new questions.

I'm in the process of testing the 165g Xtreme RN with BE-86 for subsonic use: http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=204860&d=1415590050

Disclaimer: Load data outlined in this attachment is not listed in any manual (yet). Please be CAUTIOUS if using the information presented.

I really hope that Berry's has the foresight to produce heavier versions of the HHP when they roll it out in 9mm

 

[Potatohead]

Are we counting spilled powder?

 

[Artofgolf]

Fascinating! ......I think of regular plated as limited, lest the bullet come apart.

From Berry's FAQ's:
FAQ: How fast can I shoot these bullets?

We guarantee our Standard Bullets to handle velocities up to 1,250 fps, and up to 1,500 fps for the bullets designated as TP (thick plated).

Are we counting spilled powder?

Tater, we thought you were well past that stage

 

[RealGun]

We guarantee our Standard Bullets to handle velocities up to 1,250 fps,

I believe that would encompass typical 9mm velocities.

 

[hot chili powder]

9mm reload savings

I reload my 9mm mainly 'cause it's actually fun......I'm like a mini-ammo factory and I control every aspect of the assembly. Same reason I load for my 44mag, 270 and 30-06. Yes you can save cash but it's a great hobby too, that's my story & I'm stickin' to it.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Most all if not all the posts here are factual and accurate, but I'm wondering if you reload at all? Do you have any reloading equipment? If you are just starting out you will get sticker shock on all the equipment you have to buy to get started in reloading and this all has a bearing on whether you can save money by doing so. It has to do with like so many on here has said.
How much do you shoot.

I bought a Hornady LNL-AP W/case feeder and because of the components I shoot and the equipment I already owned, I had a return of 1.7 years on 9mm vs. buying factory practice ammunition. I already had two other presses, one progressive, one single stage and had all the peripheral equipment to go with them.

It still was 1.7 years to pay for this high production machine over buying factory 9mm.

Yes, I can load my 9mm for $6.00 a box also but if I had to start from scratch and buy everything I have now related to 9mm, my "rate of return" would be much further out then 1.7 years.

It all depends on what press and equipment you buy if you don't have any, how much time you want to invest that you don't get a return on, and most importantly (as so many here have pointed out) how much you are projecting yourself to shoot.

Most of the "cost per round" you see here is only for the components and don't reflect the equipment required to load the ammo.

The last progressive I bought was $700.00 and that took the 1.7 years to pay for with me shooting 6000+ rounds a year of 9mm and already owning all the other things I need to run this press. (powder scales, dies, trimmers (don't apply to 9mm) and so on. I had to apply my .357magnum loads, 41magnum loads, and the other pistol calibers to get the 1.7 year payback because of what I pay for my plated bullets over casting my own lead for everything I load.

I have to pay $13.00 a box around here for practice 9mm ammo so for me the payback was quicker than if I were paying $10.00 a box like some seem to be able to find. I only cast bullets for one caliber and the rest are plated.

All of our situations are different but the savings are there. If you have no equipment at all and are looking to start out in reloading to save money, it can be done but you have to factor all the costs, not just the component costs and it may take much longer than you are figuring on.

 

[armoredman]

On the other hand, does anyone have some older gear they'd like to gift the gentleman in question? That is how I got started - a gent on another now defunct board decided it was time for me to reload, and sent me my old RCSB RS single stage press. It sat in a desk drawer for a year while I figured out what to do with it...and others decided to help then, too, with smaller stuff that let a guy who was having trouble keeping food on the table get into the hobby. I'm sure I could find SOMETHING around here...just a thought.

 

[Artofgolf]

On the other hand, does anyone have some older gear they'd like to gift the gentleman in question?

Could be something here for 'the gentleman in question'

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9694871#post9694871

 

[WestKentucky]

Start shooting big money rounds like 44 mag, 45 colt, or obscure rounds like 35 rem, or anything that the name ends JDJ, Waters, or H&H...then it's really hard to not save money. On calibers like 9mm and .223 which are widely, readily available, you save considerably less per round meaning your increased shooting may eat up your savings, but it is quite possible to save money reloading IF you don't value your time spent on the bench.

 

[Sunray]

Reloading isn't about saving money. It's about using the best possible ammo out of your firearms. No factory round will ever be tailored to your pistol. It's like the difference between buying a suit off the rack and having one made for you. Same thing, but the racker doesn't quite fit as well as the one made for you.
"...how long it'd take to recoup..." About 6 months, depending on how much and how often you're shooting.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I bought a Hornady LNL-AP W/case feeder and because of the components I shoot and the equipment I already owned, I had a return of 1.7 years on 9mm vs. buying factory practice ammunition. I already had two other presses, one progressive, one single stage and had all the peripheral equipment to go with them.

It still was 1.7 years to pay for this high production machine over buying factory 9mm.

Yes, I can load my 9mm for $6.00 a box also but if I had to start from scratch and buy everything I have now related to 9mm, my "rate of return" would be much further out then 1.7 years.

It all depends on what press and equipment you buy if you don't have any, how much time you want to invest that you don't get a return on, and most importantly (as so many here have pointed out) how much you are projecting yourself to shoot.

Most of the "cost per round" you see here is only for the components and don't reflect the equipment required to load the ammo.

The last progressive I bought was $700.00 and that took the 1.7 years to pay for with me shooting 6000+ rounds a year of 9mm and already owning all the other things I need to run this press. (powder scales, dies, trimmers (don't apply to 9mm) and so on. I had to apply my .357magnum loads, 41magnum loads, and the other pistol calibers to get the 1.7 year payback because of what I pay for my plated bullets over casting my own lead for everything I load.

Most starting out reloaders aren't going to spend 700 on a progressive press and every bell and whistle that makes reloading easy.

When I started reloading I bought a press, dies and a few other tools and I was able to pay it down in under 3 months. I was shooting .38 Special, .357 Magnum and 45 Colt. The 38's were a big savings back then but the .357 Magnums were something like 3x to 4x the price of the 38's and the 45 Colts were even more.

Other than dies the subsequent purchases of tools and equipment were all to make loading easier and faster, not a necessity. I understand and agree to a point to what you're saying but your case doesn't usually match the case of a new reloader.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I understand and agree to a point to what you're saying but your case doesn't usually match the case of a new reloader.

I know it doesn't, I was using my self as a example of the fact that the loading equipment necessary hadn't been included in the posts above, only the loading components.
But showing a 1.7year payback on a $700.00 press with only 3 pistol calibers does indicate that the payback is a doable thing.

If the poster were to start with a Lee Classic Cast self indexing turret press @ around $110.00, his payback would be much quicker.

I know you know this but does he?

 

[goon]

I bought a single stage single station Lyman press from the '60's on Ebay once for $50. Works fine. Now we keep it around as a spare. Reloading doesn't have to cost you a kidney. I'd be surprised if a guy couldn't get set up with useable stuff to get started reloading for $150 to $200 max.

 

[mstreddy]

I already posted this in post #6 above, but I guess it bears repeating:

... A real example - a buddy of mine just started and his equipment costs were around $410. Loading (and shooting) monthly amounts of 9MM (400 rounds), 45 ACP (200 rds), and 38 Special (200) - he will have his setup costs covered in 1.9 months when compared to the cost of factory ammo.
... Snip ...
buying bullets, either plated or lead, I load a box of 50 9MMs for around $5 on average. That's 6.3cents for the bullet (lead MBC), free brass, 2.5 cents for the primer, and around 1cent for the powder.
Now you compare that with the average box of factory ammo at around ~$12/50.
That's $7 savings per box *times* 20 boxes to a case of 1000 = $140 savings or payback of equipment.

Obviously, if a new reloader spends more on the setup then the payback will take longer -- assuming pistol rounds. But, we can "what if" it to death and only the individual, the OP, or anyone person can determine if it's WORTH IT for them.
I'll just add this to the whole payback question - having seen my buddy's example, I decided to plug in some of the values for my equipment -- I'm ignoring my RCBS Rock Chucker as that was paid off back around 1990. Since I "restarted" reloading in 2005, I got deeper into it in 2009/10 (interesting political climate and all). I bought a used Hornady LNL AP, some more dies, another LNL AP via a trade in program at Hornady, 22 die sets, and other assorted equipment -- my costs for this go around were around $1,800. Using my typical monthly shooting estimates of 400 rds 9MM, 200 - 380, 10 - 45 ACP, 100 - 38 Spcl, and 200 - 223s; my payback period was 9.1 months.

Again, it all comes down to, how much do you shoot? Which calibers will also factor, but the ROI or payback period is really inconsequential in the bigger scheme of things. In another thread I answered the question of how many rounds reloaded -- going back to 2005 (lost my earlier records) I have loaded over 21K rounds. So, a 9 month payback is easy -- for me.

 

[GLOOB]

Well, you basically save money right off the bat if you buy a decent setup and say 5k rounds worth of components and lead at a reasonable cost. If you spend wisely, you're already ahead.

But most casual shooters don't buy 5k rounds of factory ammo at a time. And reloading takes a lot of time and space.