I took a Glock frame to be shipped to have a grip reduction done around 9am. At noon i get an e-mail saying the shipment had been cancelled and to contact the shipper directly for further. I cant find out why until 8am. From what i researched the frame would still be treated as a complete firearm because the serial number is on it. I was under the impression that meant it had to be overnight. The guy stated looking at his computer that they didnt have overnight to that address so he would send it second day. I didnt quest him but im wondering if someone else came in and decided it couldnt be done like that and cancelled. Any guesses to whats going on? Im wondering if they are going to tell me i need a copy of an FFL holder for the recipient.
Fed Ex cancelled my shipment. Dont know why yet.
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denfoote
Member
As far as I know you can ship your gun to a manufacturer or gunsmith without having to trade FFLs!! But who knows these days, with Democrats in power maybe SPED EX is going to get grumpy about it!!
Father Knows Best
Member
You need to declare to the person accepting it for shipment (the FedEx guy) that it is a firearm, and it must ship to an FFL holder. That means that they may require you to produce a copy of the recipient's FFL to prove that it is going to an FFL holder. If you didn't declare it at a firearm, or show an FFL, those might be reasons they cancelled the shipment.
i've called the fedex 800 number to ask about shipping firearms. the lady(sounded like she was reading off a script) said that a FFL copy does NOT have to be produced at the time of shipment.
with that said, i think those of us who have heard firearms shipping stories enough times know that the training of the shipping clerks varies widely...from made up rules by local clerks to knowledgeable clerks who get the job done w/o a fuss.
i usually ship UPS from hawaii. because UPS does not offer next day shipping to the east coast, they ship 2nd day air for handguns. the clerk explained to me they have to choose the next fastest shipping in these cases...which is 2nd day air.
GunNut
Member
This is one reason why most people quit telling UPS/Fedex what is in the package.
Pretty soon we will only be able to ship by using a FFL.
Steve
Pretty soon we will only be able to ship by using a FFL.
Steve
denfoote
Member
I'm glad to see it worked out.
mpmarty
Member
At the UPS
shipping hub here, they have a computer at the front counter where you enter your phone number and it brings up your information and then you proceed to fill out the shipping label before you go to the clerk station and weigh in. The software asks for shipping address where the package is going and asks for the contents of the package. I always ship in the hard plastic case my pistol came in complete with the labels with serial numbers etc. In the field where you put what the contents of the package are I type in "BOX" and place the gun box inside an ordinary large cardboard box with lots of stuffing around it. I've never had a problem with this and the clerks usually comment the box in the box and what's behind door number two. In some cases the clerks even ask me to open the box so they can admire the (insert brand here such as Taurus, Colt, SA etc.). The all know it's a gun but never hit me with this overnight crap. I insure for what it's worth and ship it three day economy. The last one was my XD45 to SA cost me a little over ten bucks.
shipping hub here, they have a computer at the front counter where you enter your phone number and it brings up your information and then you proceed to fill out the shipping label before you go to the clerk station and weigh in. The software asks for shipping address where the package is going and asks for the contents of the package. I always ship in the hard plastic case my pistol came in complete with the labels with serial numbers etc. In the field where you put what the contents of the package are I type in "BOX" and place the gun box inside an ordinary large cardboard box with lots of stuffing around it. I've never had a problem with this and the clerks usually comment the box in the box and what's behind door number two. In some cases the clerks even ask me to open the box so they can admire the (insert brand here such as Taurus, Colt, SA etc.). The all know it's a gun but never hit me with this overnight crap. I insure for what it's worth and ship it three day economy. The last one was my XD45 to SA cost me a little over ten bucks.
LubeckTech
Member
Unfortunately that part is considered a firearm and must be shipped to a FFL holder in order to be legal. The sad part is unlawfully shipping a firearm is not just a plain felony but a federal offence which means that if convicted you would probably be burned at the stake or wish you were!!!!!
mbott
Member
FedEx has three types of "overnight" shipping. According to their tariff, firearms must be shipped "priority overnight", which is, of course, the most expensive service they offer.
Hope you never have to file an insurance claim.
I believe you are required to notify the shipper exactly what you are shipping.
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Mike
Sniper X
Member
I recently shipped a Springfeild 1911 back to them to refinished. I shipped it next day UPS, insured and did not have to either use a FFL or declare it a firearm. I remember a few years ago UPS and Fedex both decalred that if you shipped a firearm thru them it had to be marked on the outside of the box: FIREARM....which might have well have been marked STEAL ME! they both dropped the nonsenceacal rule and have since shipped a few of my firearms to the from the manufacturers for various things.
Mbott, thanks for the info. He sent it 2nd day because he SAID when he looked on the computer they didnt have an overnight for that Address which didnt make sense to me because the guy runs a buisness and has a FFL. I didnt quest him on it. I told him the contents and where it needed to go and give me the next best option to overnight. He did make it require a signature. BTW, it was delivered this afternoon.
It's also against federal law to fail to tell the carrier what is really in the box. You are required to notify them that you're shipping a firearm. If you tell them you're shipping "machine parts" or any of the other cute responses that seem to be popular in the gun community, you're not only going to be denied your insurance claim if the gun is lost/stolen, but you're also breaking the law.
WeedWhacker
Member
denfoote was correct, and everyone else stating that you "need to tell the common carrier (UPS, FedEx, DHL - not USPS) the package contents before shipping to an FFL-holder" is wrong, wrong, wrong.
This has been covered many times before - relevant federal law is 18 USC 922e.
English version: the law states that shipping via common carrier to FFL-holders is a-okay, and requires that common carriers not label the contents of a package containing a firearm as containing such. The law does NOT require a person to inform the shipper of the box's contents.
The only real "requirement" here is the carrier's policy, and the carrier's policy is NOT law in any way, shape, or form.
This has been covered many times before - relevant federal law is 18 USC 922e.
English version: the law states that shipping via common carrier to FFL-holders is a-okay, and requires that common carriers not label the contents of a package containing a firearm as containing such. The law does NOT require a person to inform the shipper of the box's contents.
The only real "requirement" here is the carrier's policy, and the carrier's policy is NOT law in any way, shape, or form.
Father Knows Best
Member
True, but there is always the insurance claim issue. I just sold an AR-50 on Gunbroker for $2000. I shipped it UPS to the buyer's FFL, and paid $16 for $2000 worth of insurance on it. I told UPS, per their policy, that the box contained a firearm. Why? Because if it was lost (stolen) or damaged by UPS, I want my $2000. If I hadn't declared it to UPS to be a firearm, I wouldn't be entitled to my $2000.
mbott
Member
WeedWacker,
When the BATFE agrees with The Gun Zone that it's not required to inform a contract carrier, that's when I'll stop informing them of the contents.
From the BATFE Q&As: "(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]"
When the BATFE agrees with The Gun Zone that it's not required to inform a contract carrier, that's when I'll stop informing them of the contents.
From the BATFE Q&As: "(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]"
WeedWhacker
Member
mbott,
you're free to do whatever you feel like (unless prohibited by federal, state, or local law), but I strongly discourage people from spreading false information.
The BATFE FAQs in no way, shape, or form carry the force of law. The USC is the law and the USC implicitly states that the carrier need *not* be notified by explicitly stating that shipments to FFL-holders are exempt from said notification requirements. All that stuff about "all that is not explicitly forbidden is allowed" due to us living in a "free country" still applies.
Feel free to read the copy of the letter from the BATFE stating such via the first THR link I'd posted.
Father Knows Best,
the shipping and insurance issue is a private matter between the shipper and the shippee. Whatever one decides to do regarding notification for insurance purposes is solely up to the person in question - not any law. I have not signed any contracts nor been given a list of policy guidelines when shipping packages via common carrier, so even if a common carrier gets bent out of shape because I didn't notify them that my stolen box contained a firearm, I had still paid the asking price for the set amount of insurance coverage and expect that to be paid regardless of whether the box's contents were a stack of gold bars, a firearm, or a bunch of worthless rocks. IANAL, YMMV, BICRUSC.
you're free to do whatever you feel like (unless prohibited by federal, state, or local law), but I strongly discourage people from spreading false information.
The BATFE FAQs in no way, shape, or form carry the force of law. The USC is the law and the USC implicitly states that the carrier need *not* be notified by explicitly stating that shipments to FFL-holders are exempt from said notification requirements. All that stuff about "all that is not explicitly forbidden is allowed" due to us living in a "free country" still applies.
Feel free to read the copy of the letter from the BATFE stating such via the first THR link I'd posted.
Father Knows Best,
the shipping and insurance issue is a private matter between the shipper and the shippee. Whatever one decides to do regarding notification for insurance purposes is solely up to the person in question - not any law. I have not signed any contracts nor been given a list of policy guidelines when shipping packages via common carrier, so even if a common carrier gets bent out of shape because I didn't notify them that my stolen box contained a firearm, I had still paid the asking price for the set amount of insurance coverage and expect that to be paid regardless of whether the box's contents were a stack of gold bars, a firearm, or a bunch of worthless rocks. IANAL, YMMV, BICRUSC.
mbott
Member
At best, what we have is contradictory information from the same branch of government. So, we end up with a 50/50 chance of being right ... or wrong.
However, those contract shippers that accept handguns for shipment require that the shipment be declared, to the person accepting the shipment from you, that it is a firearm. They also require the particular (priority overnight, etc) method of shipment. All perfectly legal. Now if you fail to disclose as required by their tariff and your insured shipment gets “lost”, do you expect the contract carrier to cover your loss?
That's a bet I'm not willing to make.
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Mike
However, those contract shippers that accept handguns for shipment require that the shipment be declared, to the person accepting the shipment from you, that it is a firearm. They also require the particular (priority overnight, etc) method of shipment. All perfectly legal. Now if you fail to disclose as required by their tariff and your insured shipment gets “lost”, do you expect the contract carrier to cover your loss?
That's a bet I'm not willing to make.
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Mike
WeedWhacker
Member
Actually, what we have is the law saying one thing, and a web site saying another. Seems pretty obvious to me which one carries more weight. I administered a gov't website, and we had a link to a porn site on it. Does that mean the gov't endorses porn?
I never said anyone must not inform their common carrier - I said the law does not require them to. There's a big difference between "not a bet I'm willing to make" and "the law requires". Please don't confuse the two.
I covered this in my previous post. Short answer: yes.
I never said anyone must not inform their common carrier - I said the law does not require them to. There's a big difference between "not a bet I'm willing to make" and "the law requires". Please don't confuse the two.
Father Knows Best
Member
Yeah, well, good luck with that. UPS and FedEx both have their policies posted online and available at any shipping point. They clearly require you to notify them when you are shipping a firearm. Those policies state the contract terms that you accept by using their service. Your own willful ignorance of the terms will not protect you. I guaranty that when you sue them for nonpayment, you will lose. I do this for a living -- I've been a practicing attorney for 13 years now, and I'm licensed in four states and a dozen federal courts.weedwhacker said:
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