Federalism and Medical Marijuana

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Good article on this subject...

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Will the Supreme Court save federalism from the conservatives?
Jacob Sullum


At last year's American Bar Association convention, Justice Department lawyer Mark Quinlivan warned that defending "states' rights" has a disreputable past and a dangerous future. A consistent commitment to state sovereignty, he said, would allow states to opt out of national civil rights laws and revive racial segregation.

"States can't selectively assert their independence from the federal government on national issues," Quinlivan declared. "You cannot cherry-pick your federalism."

Tying federalism to racism is a familiar tactic of the left, but it was odd to hear it coming from a representative of the putatively conservative Bush administration. After all, one of the things conservatives are supposed to conserve is our constitutional design, at the center of which is a distinction between local and national matters.

Not only that, but President Bush says his favorite Supreme Court justices are Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas, the two members of the Court who are most inclined to enforce the doctrine that Congress has only those powers explicitly granted by the Constitution. And as the 10th Amendment makes clear, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States"—which, by the way, legally enforced racial segregation is, under the 14th Amendment—"are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Why would a lawyer working for a conservative administration suggest that insisting on this separation of powers is a bad idea? The puzzle becomes clearer when you know that Quinlivan was talking about marijuana—specifically, about the ability of states such as California to allow their residents to use the drug as a medicine, an issue the Supreme Court will consider on Monday.

Conservatives generally don't like marijuana, so they're not inclined to give the states leeway in this area. But if that is what their avowed federalist principles amount to in practice, they are not principles at all.

In the case the Supreme Court is considering, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit concluded that Congress' authority to regulate interstate commerce does not extend to medical use of marijuana in states that allow it. This means the Drug Enforcement Administration may no longer raid the homes of people like Angel McClary Raich and Diane Monson, the two plaintiffs in this case, who use marijuana to relieve severe pain and nausea, among other symptoms.

Urging the Court to uphold the 9th Circuit's ruling, several distinguished constitutional scholars—including Charles Fried, a solicitor general in the Reagan administration—note: "This case involves household production for household consumption, with no sales or prospect of sales. If the Government can regulate that, it can regulate anything."

These are perilous times for conservative principles. With Republicans controlling all three branches of the federal government, their grip tightened by this month's elections, conservatives will be tempted to forget their scruples about concentrating too much power in one place, as long as their guys are in charge.

But someday the other guys will take over. So conservatives had better think hard before they abandon the limits that keep the federal government from assuming power over every aspect of life.

To see how federalism cuts both ways, consider abortion. Although a recent New York Times/CBS News poll asked respondents whether President Bush "is likely to appoint Justices who will vote to...make abortion against the law," the actual result of overturning Roe v. Wade would be to return the issue to the states.

Meanwhile, though, the Supreme Court's unjustified nationalization of the issue has invited conservatives to respond in kind. And so we get patently unconstitutional laws such as the "partial birth" abortion ban, which covers purely intrastate activity on the pretext that it "affects" interstate commerce.

Conservatives who supported this law cannot consistently question the constitutionality of the Federal Access to Clinic Entrances Act, which relies on the same bogus Commerce Clause rationale. Nor would they be able to credibly wield constitutional objections against federal legislation overriding state restrictions on abortion.

In addition to imposing national policies regarding medical marijuana and abortion, the Bush administration has sought to override the states in areas such as assisted suicide, pain treatment, education, and marriage. Newly confident after the elections, the president is not likely to be more respectful of the balance between state and federal authority. The best hope for federalism is that the justices he appoints, with Scalia and Thomas as his models, will be.
 
Congress may very well have tried Prohibition without an amendment first and got their hand smacked by the Supremes. Not all that familiar with the history of Prohibition.

You can learn more here.

Back in 1914, Congress didn't have the regulatory power they now wield, but they were able to grab regulatory power by calling a regulatory power grab the Harrison Tax Act.

Before the invention of the "tax" scheme which started federal prohibition, advocates wanted to go a different way. They wanted to use an international treaty.

So does anyone know how yesterday's hearings in the Stewart case went?
 
Why doesn't one of the folks arrested by the DEA challenge any arrest/conviction on federalism grounds, namely that the federal government lacks the authority to regulate activity that doesn't cross state lines? Said MJ is being grown in CA, sold to people in CA, who have prescriptions written by doctors in CA. No interstate commerce, no federal authority.

it has in slight ways been done=

in at least one case, the feds got tired of fighting, and turned it over to the state before letting it get to a trial, people pleaded out .
i think if someone really took what you are talking about into court, they would be handed a very sweet deal before they knew what hit them.
courts know how to avoid precedents


BUT = if you are getting arrested by the DEA , you are probably doing something so large you are violating CA laws anyway , more than likely.
the police have always been incredibly lenient on MJ here, it takes a big money maker to attract federal attention.

as far as these few odd folks getting nailed for small things= they are 99% in areas like the hills where people are much more conservative, and are being made an example of. look at ed rosenthal's case
http://www.green-aid.com/edrosenthal.htm
Convicted, but ultimately sentenced to ONE day.
the judge knew this guy was way to high profile nad well liked to give him any real jail itme

especially since it at this point is regulated by city, county, and so on in many areas, if you are exceeding local limits , the state is no help at all legally, and i have no sympathy for people making thousands under the guise of helping sick people.
 
thorn, that sounds reasonable, but your scenario doesn't fit what has actually happened. There has never been any allegation that Monson or Raich or their associates were doing any large-scale trafficking, the State and local authorities in California seemed to have no problem with what they were doing, yet they were busted by the feds and are now subjects of a Supreme Court case.
 
I think they were chosen precisely because they made a huge issue out of doing it completely outside the scope of commerce ie ideal test case.
 
I'll stop posting this stuff when our gun rights no longer depend on our drug rights, which in turn no longer depend on a New Deal (mis)interpretation of the commerce clause that is nothing but a naked power grab.

Until then, expect to be reminded frequently about this issue.
 
I recall reading of a case in Louisiana, in which Company A enriched and sold uranium to Comapny B, a power plant also in LA. All of A's product was mined, enriched, and sold within the state of LA, but not all of B's uranium came from A. B got more uranium from C, which was out of state. The SC ruled that because B could have bought more from C if they didn't buy from A, the commerce between A and B was interstate commerce.

:rolleyes: :banghead: :cuss:
 
Aren't there theories in quantum physics which state that all possible outcomes for a given situation do occur, just in separate universes?

I guess in quantum Constitutional law, interstate commerce which could have occurred, but did not, is assumed to have occurred.
 
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I think you misunderstand the nature of quantum inter-universe commerce, Doc. We regulate quantum transactions (those which might have occurred, but, at least in our universe, did not) by passing laws in our own universe.
 
It's not inter-universe commerce. It's interstate commerce that is occurring in another universe. But it COULD HAVE occurred in our universe.

I think that to really understand these things, you have to spend a lot of years on a bench in a black robe. Or maybe under a bench in a bathrobe, drinking gin. One way or another.
 
Did the Founders think that the commerce clause would wind up being used not just to promote interstate commerce, but to manage the private lives of citizens?

James Madison, from Federalist 45:

The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State. The operations of the federal government will be most extensive and important in times of war and danger; those of the State governments, in times of peace and security.

...
If the new Constitution be examined with accuracy and candor, it will be found that the change which it proposes consists much less in the addition of NEW POWERS to the Union, than in the invigoration of its ORIGINAL POWERS. The regulation of commerce, it is true, is a new power; but that seems to be an addition which few oppose, and from which no apprehensions are entertained.

Should have thought about that one a little more carefully, IMHO.
 
Not sure what you're saying there, RG.

I noticed that some useful links are lacking from this thread, such as:

Judge Kozinski's opinion in US v Stewart, in which the 9th Circuit ruled that a homegrown machine gun for personal consumption is not interstate commerce.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/circs/9th/0210318p.pdf

The Justice Dept's cert petition, asking the Supreme Court to decide Stewart's fate in light of their (to be announced) decision in the Raich case:

http://www.mp5.net/info/wilson.pet.app.pdf

The 9th Circuit's opinion in Raich, in which they find that a homegrown cannabis plant for personal consumption is not interstate commerce:

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/data2/circs/9th/0315481p.pdf
 
DocZinn,
I have a faint recollection that the original commerce clause case that expanded federal powers into purely intra-state transactions involved produce, corn I think.

The current S.Ct. has been much more critical of commerce clause arguments and has been narrowing the scope of it. That said, they have also been fairly deferential to federal law enforcement, which is where controlled substances of any sort fall.

It will be an interesting test to see whether those justices who profess to believe in "strict construction" stick to their guns and constrain federal commerce clause action or allow their deference to Congress on LE matters control.
 
rwc,

The famous case was Wickard v Filburn. Wickard grew wheat on his farm for the use of his family, and the court ruled in that case that the wheat he grew was subject to federal regulation because, although he was not selling it, if everyone grew their own wheat, that would affect the interstate trade in wheat.

The objection has been that the same reasoning can be applied to almost any activity (which is why we have had cases about whether being too near to a school with a gun affects interstate commerce, as well as the two current cases I linked). I don't think that a federal government with authority over almost anything was what Madison had in mind when he wrote the words I quoted above.
 
Jury power

When are we going to wake up and simply use the power we have on the Juries to stop this nonsence? The JURIES could simply vote NOT GUILTY for violations of these so called laws passed by the legislature gods and supported by the supreme court gods.

JUST SAY NO to any law that VIOLATES ANY of our freedom. PERIOD.

Carry laws are on my list. If I was on a jury and some guy was being charged with carrying a concealed firearm, I'd either hang the jury or convince them all that he was not guilty of any crime and we would all come out of the jury room and say to the dear black robed baal priest...NOT GUILTY. Can you READ OUR LIPS JUDGY? NOT F*****G GUILTY.
 
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When are we going to wake up and simply use the power we have on the Juries to stop this nonsence? The JURIES could simply vote NOT GUILTY for violations of these so called laws passed by the legislature gods and supported by the supreme court gods. JUST SAY NO to any law that VIOLATES ANY of our freedom. PERIOD.
The problem there (as I see it) is the practice by both prosecuting and defense counsel of screening prospective members of a jury to make sure that those who support the notion you put forth (aka Jury Nullification) do NOT sit on the jury. Judges are also a source of the problem, since some of them will instruct a jury that they must follow the law as instructed to them by the court and that their only job is the judge the facts in the case, not the law itself.
 
Not sure what you're saying there, RG. - Publius

I was referring to the Feds gaining unlimited jurisdiction to combat gangster weapons in the 30s by claiming that the possibility of transport between federal properties within a State was equivalent to interstate commerce. They won the argument.

I can't recall exactly where I got this, but I think it was in reference to the 1934 National Firearms Act. The Feds had to establish jurisdiction that went beyond transport across state lines. They made the leap that the possibility of transport between federal property was good enough. I don't know that there was any test of whether a State actually contained federal property, but a post office was probably sufficient. Thus the scope of interstate commerce jurisdiction was unlimited right up to your front door. I believe things like federal gun dealer licensing relies upon this jurisdiction. National concealed carry licensing could do the same, I believe. This is a major piece of the whole "commerce clause" deal so frequently referenced. I believe Lopez is the relatively recent SCOTUS case.

I would welcome a refresher course on this stuff. It has been awhile since I did any serious reading on gun control. Once realizing clearly that we are screwed by the Supreme Court's artful dodging, I quit reading the older stuff. Silveira pretty much reinforced my assessment...no hearing, no comment for an apparently good case.

I believe your Stewart and Raich references rely on the commerce clause question.

Federal police powers are not the only problem with federal power. The Feds have profound power when they collect income taxes and then make state apportionment grants conditional on compliance with federal enactments. Follow the money. Power then flows from the federal government, not the States or the People.

The compromises made in response to blacks, the Civil War, the Great Depression, and Prohibition are not unlike those being made in response to 9/11. It's all expedient, Constitution be damned...sounded like a good idea at the time.

Is Congress Passing Unconstitutional Laws?
 
courageouslion,

Two words are guaranteed to get you out of jury duty: jury nullification. If you believe in it, as I do, and you wish to serve, you'd better shut up about your beliefs, at least until you are seated.

Here's an article about it.

Excerpt:

"If the jury feels the law is unjust," according to the Fourth Circuit in the 1969 case U.S. v. Moylan, "we recognize the undisputed power of the jury to acquit, even if its verdict is contrary to the law as given by a judge, and contrary to the evidence. … If the jury feels that the law under which the defendant is accused is unjust … the jury has the power to acquit …" (emphasis added).

Some buck at the notion of jury nullification. They see it as going against the rule of law – a dozen anarchists passing judgment on a whim. Endowed with such power and the guilty will walk free because a chili onion supreme didn't sit well in the stomach of the jury foreman.

Perhaps – but the founders didn't see it that way.

"I consider trial by jury as the only anchor ever yet imagined by man, by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution," said Thomas Jefferson in a 1789 letter to Thomas Paine. His comments presuppose laws which go above and beyond the national charter (such as drug prohibition today) and the jury's vital role in seeing that no citizens are harmed by such tyrannical legislation.

John Adams, the second American president, sang from the same hymnal. "It is not only [the juror's] right, but his duty," he said in 1771, "to find the verdict according to his own best understanding, judgment, and conscience, though in direct opposition to the direction of the court."

Likewise, in an 1804 libel case, Alexander Hamilton argued that "the jury have an undoubted right to give a general verdict, which decides both law and fact."

"This distribution of power, by which the court and jury mutually assist, and mutually check each other," Hamilton continued, "seems to be the safest, and consequently the wisest arrangement, in respect to the trial of crimes. ... To judge accurately of motives and intentions, does not require a master's skill in the science of law. It depends more on a knowledge of the passions, and of the springs of human action, and may be the lot of ordinary experience and sagacity."

In other words, the people are deemed sensible enough to decide when one of their fellows is getting the shaft from an unjust law.

RealGun, the NFA, like the Harrison Act before it, relied on Congress' power to tax as a source of regulatory authority. That was back before the commerce clause came into its own as the primary source of federal power.
 
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Publius,
Wheat - right. Must be why I got a "B." :)

Having picked a few juries as a AAG/prosecutor, I can tell you that from that perspective you want a jury that will decide the facts and leave the law to the judge.

Jury nullification is a tough issue IMO. I think it remains in fact, even though juries are not instructed on it. It resides where it belongs, in the conscience of the jurors. I believe it should be reserved only for those instances where the abuse of prosecutorial discretion and the abdication of impartiality by the court is so evident that the jury will, on its own, reach the proper conclusion. We may disagree on how often such circumstances come about these days, but I fear that if you instruct juries on it you will get some results that leave you even less satisfied with our judicial system.
 
They don't have to instruct me. I know my duties as a juror, and I know enough not to say that I know my duties during selection. ;)

And I think I'm sensible enough to know when one of my fellows is getting the shaft from an unjust law.

We have already gotten some results I don't like under the current system. Here's another article about it:

Jury Rigging

I think a more just result would have ensued if the judge had told the jurors a couple of the things I just posted from the Founders of our country. Granted, the prosecution would not have been happy. Too bad.
 
RealGun, the NFA, like the Harrison Act before it, relied on Congress' power to tax as a source of regulatory authority. That was back before the commerce clause came into its own as the primary source of federal power

I have it that 1934 was a tax on machine guns and 1938 was licensing of sellers and sale registration. I believe it would be the latter that relied more on interstate commerce jurisdiction.

I have found some indirect references to the origin of all this stuff but am still looking for the original arguments for how instrastate commerce came to qualify as interstate commerce jurisdiction. I am aware of Wicker, but there was more directly related to fed gun control. I recall clearly how ludicrous it seemed at first reading. They were clearly looking for a legal angle that would allow them, including the judge, to do what they wanted at the time.

Gun Legislation Timeline
 
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