Felons and guns in California...

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TheArchDuke

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This is not about me obviously because I already own guns. A friend of mine has expressed interest in buying a handgun for home defense. The thing is, he was convicted of a felony and paid his debt to society. Later he was able to get his felony expunged. I heard somewhere, maybe this board, that a felon can't own a gun unless he actually gets a pardon; an expungment isn't enough. Do you know if this is true?

Thanks,

mike
 
The restoration of rights varies from state to state. The real trick is the national registry, the BATF is supposed to make the correction. Getting that done, is something else.
 
He should apply for his COE or certificate of eligibility, If it's granted then he he will also pass the DROS background check, and applying for the certificate is not a crimial offence for a prohibited person, where as trying to buy a gun if you're prohibited is a crime.
 
How was he able to get a conviction expunged? Was he a minor when he committed the felony?

I would highly reccommend a lawyer.
 
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Thanks for the info guys. Where would he go to apply for his COE?

Yeah I told him to get some professional advice. I caught him before he walked into a gun store and filled out paper work. He thought that since he had an expungment he could just answer "no" when it asks if you are a felon. If we hadn't been chatting about guns that day, his whole life might have been ruined. A sad state of affairs.
 
The restoration of rights varies from state to state. The real trick is the national registry, the BATF is supposed to make the correction. Getting that done, is something else.
There is no "national registry" of prohibited persons. There is a criminal history database known as the National Crime Information Center (NCIC), which is managed/maintained by the FBI, not the ATF. Further, the NICS check system is also managed/maintained by the FBI, not the ATF.

As I repeatedly say about these types of questions; it's best to seek the advice of a competent lawyer whose is familiar with, and has experience with, federal and state firearms laws.
 
reference the (long) law 12021 CA Penal Code:

12021. (a) (1) Any person who has been convicted of a felony under
the laws of the United States, of the State of California, or any
other state, government, or country, or of an offense enumerated in
subdivision (a), (b), or (d) of Section 12001.6, or who is addicted
to the use of any narcotic drug, who owns, purchases, receives, or
has in his or her possession or under his or her custody or control
any firearm is guilty of a felony.
(2) Any person who has two or more convictions for violating
paragraph (2) of subdivision (a) of Section 417 and who owns,
purchases, receives, or has in his or her possession or under his or
her custody or control any firearm is guilty of a felony.
(b) Notwithstanding subdivision (a), any person who has been
convicted of a felony or of an offense enumerated in Section 12001.6,
when that conviction results from certification by the juvenile
court for prosecution as an adult in an adult court under Section 707
of the Welfare and Institutions Code, who owns or has in his or her
possession or under his or her custody or control any firearm is
guilty of a felony.
(c) (1) Except as provided in subdivision (a) or paragraph (2) of
this subdivision, any person who has been convicted of a misdemeanor
violation of Section 71, 76, 136.1, 136.5, or 140, subdivision (d) of
Section 148, Section 171b, 171c, 171d, 186.28, 240, 241, 242, 243,
244.5, 245, 245.5, 246.3, 247, 273.5, 273.6, 417, 417.6, 422, 626.9,
646.9, 12023, or 12024, subdivision (b) or (d) of Section 12034,
Section 12040, subdivision (b) of Section 12072, subdivision (a) of
former Section 12100, Section 12220, 12320, or 12590, or Section
8100, 8101, or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, any
firearm-related offense pursuant to Sections 871.5 and 1001.5 of the
Welfare and Institutions Code, or of the conduct punished in
paragraph (3) of subdivision (g) of Section 12072, and who, within 10
years of the conviction, owns, purchases, receives, or has in his or
her possession or under his or her custody or control, any firearm
is guilty of a public offense, which shall be punishable by
imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state
prison, by a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by
both that imprisonment and fine. The court, on forms prescribed by
the Department of Justice, shall notify the department of persons
subject to this subdivision. However, the prohibition in this
paragraph may be reduced, eliminated, or conditioned as provided in
paragraph (2) or (3).
(2) Any person employed as a peace officer described in Section
830.1, 830.2, 830.31, 830.32, 830.33, or 830.5 whose employment or
livelihood is dependent on the ability to legally possess a firearm,
who is subject to the prohibition imposed by this subdivision because
of a conviction under Section 273.5, 273.6, or 646.9, may petition
the court only once for relief from this prohibition. The petition
shall be filed with the court in which the petitioner was sentenced.
If possible, the matter shall be heard before the same judge who
sentenced the petitioner. Upon filing the petition, the clerk of the
court shall set the hearing date and shall notify the petitioner and
the prosecuting attorney of the date of the hearing. Upon making
each of the following findings, the court may reduce or eliminate the
prohibition, impose conditions on reduction or elimination of the
prohibition, or otherwise grant relief from the prohibition as the
court deems appropriate:
(A) Finds by a preponderance of the evidence that the petitioner
is likely to use a firearm in a safe and lawful manner.
(B) Finds that the petitioner is not within a prohibited class as
specified in subdivision (a), (b), (d), (e), or (g) or Section
12021.1, and the court is not presented with any credible evidence
that the petitioner is a person described in Section 8100 or 8103 of
the Welfare and Institutions Code.
(C) Finds that the petitioner does not have a previous conviction
under this subdivision no matter when the prior conviction occurred.

In making its decision, the court shall consider the petitioner's
continued employment, the interest of justice, any relevant evidence,
and the totality of the circumstances. The court shall require, as
a condition of granting relief from the prohibition under this
section, that the petitioner agree to participate in counseling as
deemed appropriate by the court. Relief from the prohibition shall
not relieve any other person or entity from any liability that might
otherwise be imposed. It is the intent of the Legislature that
courts exercise broad discretion in fashioning appropriate relief
under this paragraph in cases in which relief is warranted. However,
nothing in this paragraph shall be construed to require courts to
grant relief to any particular petitioner. It is the intent of the
Legislature to permit persons who were convicted of an offense
specified in Section 273.5, 273.6, or 646.9 to seek relief from the
prohibition imposed by this subdivision.
(3) Any person who is subject to the prohibition imposed by this
subdivision because of a conviction of an offense prior to that
offense being added to paragraph (1) may petition the court only once
for relief from this prohibition. The petition shall be filed with
the court in which the petitioner was sentenced. If possible, the
matter shall be heard before the same judge that sentenced the
petitioner. Upon filing the petition, the clerk of the court shall
set the hearing date and notify the petitioner and the prosecuting
attorney of the date of the hearing. Upon making each of the
following findings, the court may reduce or eliminate the
prohibition, impose conditions on reduction or elimination of the
prohibition, or otherwise grant relief from the prohibition as the
court deems appropriate:
(A) Finds by a preponderance of the evidence that the petitioner
is likely to use a firearm in a safe and lawful manner.
(B) Finds that the petitioner is not within a prohibited class as
specified in subdivision (a), (b), (d), (e), or (g) or Section
12021.1, and the court is not presented with any credible evidence
that the petitioner is a person described in Section 8100 or 8103 of
the Welfare and Institutions Code.
(C) Finds that the petitioner does not have a previous conviction
under this subdivision, no matter when the prior conviction occurred.

In making its decision, the court may consider the interest of
justice, any relevant evidence, and the totality of the
circumstances. It is the intent of the Legislature that courts
exercise broad discretion in fashioning appropriate relief under this
paragraph in cases in which relief is warranted. However, nothing
in this paragraph shall be construed to require courts to grant
relief to any particular petitioner.
(4) Law enforcement officials who enforce the prohibition
specified in this subdivision against a person who has been granted
relief pursuant to paragraph (2) or (3) shall be immune from any
liability for false arrest arising from the enforcement of this
subdivision unless the person has in his or her possession a
certified copy of the court order that granted the person relief from
the prohibition. This immunity from liability shall not relieve any
person or entity from any other liability that might otherwise be
imposed.
(d) (1) Any person who, as an express condition of probation, is
prohibited or restricted from owning, possessing, controlling,
receiving, or purchasing a firearm and who owns, purchases, receives,
or has in his or her possession or under his or her custody or
control, any firearm but who is not subject to subdivision (a) or (c)
is guilty of a public offense, which shall be punishable by
imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state
prison, by a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by
both that imprisonment and fine. The court, on forms provided by the
Department of Justice, shall notify the department of persons
subject to this subdivision. The notice shall include a copy of the
order of probation and a copy of any minute order or abstract
reflecting the order and conditions of probation.
(2) For any person who is subject to subdivision (a), (b), or (c),
the court shall, at the time judgment is imposed, provide on a form
supplied by the Department of Justice, a notice to the defendant
prohibited by this section from owning, purchasing, receiving,
possessing or having under his or her custody or control, any
firearm. The notice shall inform the defendant of the prohibition
regarding firearms and include a form to facilitate the transfer of
firearms. Failure to provide the notice shall not be a defense to a
violation of this section.
(e) Any person who (1) is alleged to have committed an offense
listed in subdivision (b) of Section 707 of the Welfare and
Institutions Code, an offense described in subdivision (b) of Section
1203.073, any offense enumerated in paragraph (1) of subdivision
(c), or any offense described in subdivision (a) of Section 12025,
subdivision (a) of Section 12031, or subdivision (a) of Section
12034, and (2) is subsequently adjudged a ward of the juvenile court
within the meaning of Section 602 of the Welfare and Institutions
Code because the person committed an offense listed in subdivision
(b) of Section 707 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, an offense
described in subdivision (b) of Section 1203.073, any offense
enumerated in paragraph (1) of subdivision (c), or any offense
described in subdivision (a) of Section 12025, subdivision (a) of
Section 12031, or subdivision (a) of Section 12034, shall not own, or
have in his or her possession or under his or her custody or
control, any firearm until the age of 30 years. A violation of this
subdivision shall be punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not
exceeding one year or in the state prison, by a fine not exceeding
one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.
The juvenile court, on forms prescribed by the Department of
Justice, shall notify the department of persons subject to this
subdivision. Notwithstanding any other law, the forms required to be
submitted to the department pursuant to this subdivision may be used
to determine eligibility to acquire a firearm.
(f) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to a person who has been
convicted of a felony under the laws of the United States unless
either of the following criteria is satisfied:
(1) Conviction of a like offense under California law can only
result in imposition of felony punishment.
(2) The defendant was sentenced to a federal correctional facility
for more than 30 days, or received a fine of more than one thousand
dollars ($1,000), or received both punishments.
(g) (1) Every person who purchases or receives, or attempts to
purchase or receive, a firearm knowing that he or she is prohibited
from doing so by a temporary restraining order or injunction issued
pursuant to Section 527.6 or 527.8 of the Code of Civil Procedure, a
protective order as defined in Section 6218 of the Family Code, or
issued pursuant to Section 136.2 or 646.91 of this code, or by a
protective order issued pursuant to Section 15657.03 of the Welfare
and Institutions Code, is guilty of a public offense, which shall be
punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or
in the state prison, by a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars
($1,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.
(2) Every person who owns or possesses a firearm knowing that he
or she is prohibited from doing so by a temporary restraining order
or injunction issued pursuant to Section 527.6 or 527.8 of the Code
of Civil Procedure, a protective order as defined in Section 6218 of
the Family Code, a protective order issued pursuant to Section 136.2
or 646.91 of this code, or by a protective order issued pursuant to
Section 15657.03 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, is guilty of a
public offense, which shall be punishable by imprisonment in a
county jail not exceeding one year, by a fine not exceeding one
thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.
(3) Judicial Council shall provide notice on all protective orders
that the respondent is prohibited from owning, possessing,
purchasing, receiving, or attempting to purchase or receive a firearm
while the protective order is in effect. The order shall also state
that the firearm shall be relinquished to the local law enforcement
agency for that jurisdiction or sold to a licensed gun dealer, and
that proof of surrender or sale shall be filed within a specified
time of receipt of the order. The order shall state the penalties
for a violation of the prohibition. The order shall also state on
its face the expiration date for relinquishment.
(4) If probation is granted upon conviction of a violation of this
subdivision, the court shall impose probation consistent with the
provisions of Section 1203.097.
(h) (1) A violation of subdivision (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e) is
justifiable where all of the following conditions are met:
(A) The person found the firearm or took the firearm from a person
who was committing a crime against him or her.
(B) The person possessed the firearm no longer than was necessary
to deliver or transport the firearm to a law enforcement agency for
that agency's disposition according to law.
(C) If the firearm was transported to a law enforcement agency, it
was transported in accordance with paragraph (18) of subdivision (a)
of Section 12026.2.
(D) If the firearm is being transported to a law enforcement
agency, the person transporting the firearm has given prior notice to
the law enforcement agency that he or she is transporting the
firearm to the law enforcement agency for disposition according to
law.
(2) Upon the trial for violating subdivision (a), (b), (c), (d),
or (e), the trier of fact shall determine whether the defendant was
acting within the provisions of the exemption created by this
subdivision.
(3) The defendant has the burden of proving by a preponderance of
the evidence that he or she comes within the provisions of the
exemption created by this subdivision.
(i) Subject to available funding, the Attorney General, working
with the Judicial Council, the California Alliance Against Domestic
Violence, prosecutors, and law enforcement, probation, and parole
officers, shall develop a protocol for the implementation of the
provisions of this section. The protocol shall be designed to
facilitate the enforcement of restrictions on firearm ownership,
including provisions for giving notice to defendants who are
restricted, provisions for informing those defendants of the
procedures by which defendants shall dispose of firearms when
required to do so, provisions explaining how defendants shall provide
proof of the lawful disposition of firearms, and provisions
explaining how defendants may obtain possession of seized firearms
when legally permitted to do so pursuant to this section or any other
provision of law. The protocol shall be completed on or before
January 1, 2005.
 
'There is no "national registry" of prohibited persons. There is a criminal history database known as the National Crime Information Center (NCIC), which is managed/maintained by the FBI, not the ATF. Further, the NICS check system is also managed/maintained by the FBI, not the ATF.'

NCIC and NCIS are in fact a "National Registry"
Even after Pardon, Expungment, or "restoration of rights", you still have to apply to the ATF.
And they will make it as difficult as they possibly can.
 
NCIC and NCIS are in fact a "National Registry"
Even after Pardon, Expungment, or "restoration of rights", you still have to apply to the ATF.
And they will make it as difficult as they possibly can.
That is simply not true. NCIC is completely managedmaintained by the FBI. You cannot "apply to the ATF" to change the contents in NCIC. Also, the NICS system is entirely the responsibility of the FBI. If there is a NICS denial the system might make a referral to the ATF to do a follow up, but ATF has zero control over the NICS checks themselves. Again, you cannot "apply to the ATF" to change anything in the NICS system.
 
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