WonderNine
member
Here it is, welcome to the new police state:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/doglg.rm
You need REAL MEDIA PLAYER to view this video.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/doglg.rm
You need REAL MEDIA PLAYER to view this video.
Felony stop leaves family traumatized continued.... (THE POLICE DOG KILL VIDEO)
- Thread starter WonderNine
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WonderNine
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bttt
WonderNine
member
Yes, that's part of being a public servant. You may actually have to sustain some unpleasantries at some time, just as in any other profession, take construction for example. I spit on your post! Don't you think that any other workers take one for the team sometimes? Get bitten my ***, those cops are in full tactical gear and the shooting was completely unnecessary. A COWARD pulled the trigger on that little dog. What was he going to do, nibble his bum? Whatever happened to the old, "Hey boys, I heard you were involved in a robbery, please hand those guns over and whatever identifaction you may have."
And the stop was unlawful anyways. I guess I'm just old fashioned and not used to the new POLICE STATE of the past twenty years even though I'm only twenty three.
The man was pulled over by what (5?) state troopers? And they shoot his dog. Bunch of pillow biting cops who are protected for all of their actions by tyrannical laws.
And the stop was unlawful anyways. I guess I'm just old fashioned and not used to the new POLICE STATE of the past twenty years even though I'm only twenty three.
The man was pulled over by what (5?) state troopers? And they shoot his dog. Bunch of pillow biting cops who are protected for all of their actions by tyrannical laws.
A. I know nothing whatever about the circumstances behind that felony stop, other than what was mentioned by one of the officers about their having information that the car may have been involved in some kind of felony. If the officers believed that, they made the stop in good faith. Nothing leads me to believe that it was anything other than a good stop. That said, I have almost NO info on it.
B. Taking all things into account, the shoot took place in a rural area, with a wide shoulder behind the dog. The firearm was pointed at a downward angle, away from the other officers, the suspects, and the street. The shot thus did not endanger anyone but the dog. The officer packpeddled for some distance before shooting.
C. From what I can see, the officer's just wearing a standard midnight blue street uniform and duty belt. I certainly don't see anything resembling "full tactical gear." That's not another deputy; that's likely a municipal police officer who arrived to backup the officer on the felony stop.
D. Why should the officer, a human being, be required to take a bite from a dog, before he can stop the animal from attacking him? While the animal may have had the noblist of intentions in protecting his master from what he perceived to be a threat, the animal was in fact attacking the officer. Ever seen what a 30 lb dog can do to a hamstring or forearm used to fend it off? I have, recently. How many ounces of flesh fit in a 2.5" dog-sized chomp? At any rate, that's how much got chewed off the jogger that attacked in our city, recently.
E. That said, would shooting the animal be my first choice? Perhaps not. As an officer, the main reason I carry an expandable baton (other than for breaking windows) is for dogs, so that I don't have to shoot someone's dog on their front porch when I arrive to answer an alarm call, or the like. When I see the dog, I'll usually get my ASP out ahead of time, weak-handed. The last time I snapped out my baton while approaching a house with three dogs, however, they ran to attack me, anyway. Changing my plan, I drew my pistol. Strangely, the same dogs (pit mixes) that didn't respect a 26" steel rod stopped and retreated at the sight of my Kimber. I have no idea why. But one thing is for sure: I am NOT going to get bitten, if I can help it. And I wouldn't ask the officer to, either. Suppose he kicked the dog to the side, and it attacked one of the contact officers who was dealing with the suspects, who had NOT been frisked yet? Would that have been an escalation to the problems? Yes, I think it would, with the dog now in a position where the only answer would be to put hands on it, taking full attention off of the three suspects.
Remember, this was a felony stop. Full concentration is on the 3 felony suspects.
Coward? No way for me to tell. Pragmatist? Most likely.
B. Taking all things into account, the shoot took place in a rural area, with a wide shoulder behind the dog. The firearm was pointed at a downward angle, away from the other officers, the suspects, and the street. The shot thus did not endanger anyone but the dog. The officer packpeddled for some distance before shooting.
C. From what I can see, the officer's just wearing a standard midnight blue street uniform and duty belt. I certainly don't see anything resembling "full tactical gear." That's not another deputy; that's likely a municipal police officer who arrived to backup the officer on the felony stop.
D. Why should the officer, a human being, be required to take a bite from a dog, before he can stop the animal from attacking him? While the animal may have had the noblist of intentions in protecting his master from what he perceived to be a threat, the animal was in fact attacking the officer. Ever seen what a 30 lb dog can do to a hamstring or forearm used to fend it off? I have, recently. How many ounces of flesh fit in a 2.5" dog-sized chomp? At any rate, that's how much got chewed off the jogger that attacked in our city, recently.
E. That said, would shooting the animal be my first choice? Perhaps not. As an officer, the main reason I carry an expandable baton (other than for breaking windows) is for dogs, so that I don't have to shoot someone's dog on their front porch when I arrive to answer an alarm call, or the like. When I see the dog, I'll usually get my ASP out ahead of time, weak-handed. The last time I snapped out my baton while approaching a house with three dogs, however, they ran to attack me, anyway. Changing my plan, I drew my pistol. Strangely, the same dogs (pit mixes) that didn't respect a 26" steel rod stopped and retreated at the sight of my Kimber. I have no idea why. But one thing is for sure: I am NOT going to get bitten, if I can help it. And I wouldn't ask the officer to, either. Suppose he kicked the dog to the side, and it attacked one of the contact officers who was dealing with the suspects, who had NOT been frisked yet? Would that have been an escalation to the problems? Yes, I think it would, with the dog now in a position where the only answer would be to put hands on it, taking full attention off of the three suspects.
Remember, this was a felony stop. Full concentration is on the 3 felony suspects.
Coward? No way for me to tell. Pragmatist? Most likely.
RoyRapoport
Member
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- 24
News reports indicated -- and the video confirms to me -- that the people were asking to close the doors of the car so the dogs would not leave the car. The officers declined for some reason, even though there were enough of them to both maintain control over the suspects and close the doors.
Personally -- and maybe it's just because I'm a dog person and my girlfriend owns the gentlest dogs alive, including a 150lb lab/dane mix that would likely get shot in this sort if situation -- I'd probably say the right thing to do is to either use non-lethal means on the dog or wait at least to figure out what its intentions are.
I sincerely hope that PD's pockets will get slightly emptier due to this f***up.
Personally -- and maybe it's just because I'm a dog person and my girlfriend owns the gentlest dogs alive, including a 150lb lab/dane mix that would likely get shot in this sort if situation -- I'd probably say the right thing to do is to either use non-lethal means on the dog or wait at least to figure out what its intentions are.
I sincerely hope that PD's pockets will get slightly emptier due to this f***up.
First-- I agree -- You don't have to get bit and you should concentrate on the occupants and hence may have to get (shoot) the dog to avoid the distraction factor--
I wasn't there I don't know what I would have done -- The video isn't clear enough for me to make a fair determination--
But--
My undersatanding of the stop was a suspicous // possible felony--
Supposedly the driver left his wallet on the roof and officers observed USC flying about / and from the vehicle--
That's what I got off the media--Could be wrong--
I wasn't there I don't know what I would have done -- The video isn't clear enough for me to make a fair determination--
But--
My undersatanding of the stop was a suspicous // possible felony--
Supposedly the driver left his wallet on the roof and officers observed USC flying about / and from the vehicle--
That's what I got off the media--Could be wrong--
From all reports the dog was very friendly and it's obvious from the video that he's wagging it's tail. The stupid little mutt just saw more people to pet it and was trying to make a new friend. The officer decided that he was in mortal danger from a dog that most of us would've reached down to pet and after blowing the dog's head off puts the muzzle of his weapon on the mother and son.
Was the dog growling or snarling and baring it's teeth? Was the animal showing any signs of aggression? No reports on that even from the LEO community out there. If not, then virtually every dog you or I or anyone else ever encounters should be shot as they come trotting up. It's a dog's nature. Shouldn't he have tried to use pepper spray on the dog first? He was backpeddling... if a dog wants to play and you move away from it, what does it do? THe officer was screaming "get back, get back" at the dog. How about sit or heel? The officer screwed up, plain and simple. Sounds like the officer has a fear of dogs and panicked when fido came trotting up for a belly scratching.
Ever been attacked by a dog? They don't come trotting up and chomp you. They usually come full bore, growling with teeth barred. It's a bluff posture that is inherent in canine attacks. None of these videos show anything like that. It looks to me like the dog though the officer was actually trying to play with it. If it was so vicious, why were all the other officers standing around and completely ignoring it? If it were growling, I guarantee there would've been a lot more heads looking in it's direction. Nobody looks around until the officer panics and starts screaming at the dog.
Was the dog growling or snarling and baring it's teeth? Was the animal showing any signs of aggression? No reports on that even from the LEO community out there. If not, then virtually every dog you or I or anyone else ever encounters should be shot as they come trotting up. It's a dog's nature. Shouldn't he have tried to use pepper spray on the dog first? He was backpeddling... if a dog wants to play and you move away from it, what does it do? THe officer was screaming "get back, get back" at the dog. How about sit or heel? The officer screwed up, plain and simple. Sounds like the officer has a fear of dogs and panicked when fido came trotting up for a belly scratching.
Ever been attacked by a dog? They don't come trotting up and chomp you. They usually come full bore, growling with teeth barred. It's a bluff posture that is inherent in canine attacks. None of these videos show anything like that. It looks to me like the dog though the officer was actually trying to play with it. If it was so vicious, why were all the other officers standing around and completely ignoring it? If it were growling, I guarantee there would've been a lot more heads looking in it's direction. Nobody looks around until the officer panics and starts screaming at the dog.
Hkmp5sd
Member
I don't think we can really blame the officers for this one. They thought they were stopping armed robbers and followed their felony carstop procedures. Looking at the tape and the number of times they had to repeat orders to the three individuals, I think they could have been a lot rougher throughout the whole deal.
The officer that shot the dog may not have heard them wanting to close doors or anything else being said. He's covering them with a shotgun until they are secure and a dog pops up in front of him that is running straight at him.
This was an unfortunate incident, but I believe the LEO's acted properly given the information they had at the time.
The officer that shot the dog may not have heard them wanting to close doors or anything else being said. He's covering them with a shotgun until they are secure and a dog pops up in front of him that is running straight at him.
This was an unfortunate incident, but I believe the LEO's acted properly given the information they had at the time.
Phyphor
Member
I think that's a load of crap. I think the LEO's over reacted.
They could have pepper-sprayed the animal or hit it with their sticks, if the dog would have charged after that, then deadly force would be warranted,
They could have pepper-sprayed the animal or hit it with their sticks, if the dog would have charged after that, then deadly force would be warranted,
Let me get this straight.
First, if a dog attacks, my response is to holler "sit" or "heel."
I'm only supposed to shoot the dog if it's a mortal threat; in other words, a dog gets the same rights as a human being.
I'm supposed to try to use pepper spray, which has repeatedly been shown to be at best only intermittantly effective on dogs, to stop the animal when attacked.
That dog was obvious wagging its tail when it quickly approached the officer? Really? Because I had the thing blown up to full-screen on a 19" monitor when I watched the actual shoot on 3 occasions, and I don't see that. Hunh.
Folks, make no mistake: I'm really sorry the dog died; I really am. I think it's tragic.
But I don't think the criteria are there to judge the officer's actions as wrong.
First, if a dog attacks, my response is to holler "sit" or "heel."
I'm only supposed to shoot the dog if it's a mortal threat; in other words, a dog gets the same rights as a human being.
I'm supposed to try to use pepper spray, which has repeatedly been shown to be at best only intermittantly effective on dogs, to stop the animal when attacked.
That dog was obvious wagging its tail when it quickly approached the officer? Really? Because I had the thing blown up to full-screen on a 19" monitor when I watched the actual shoot on 3 occasions, and I don't see that. Hunh.
Yes, actually. I have. And I've been amazed, time and again, at how quickly a dog can and often will change its attitude. 5 seconds before I drew my pistol at the hounds I mentioned in my earlier post, 2 of the dogs were wagging their tails.
Folks, make no mistake: I'm really sorry the dog died; I really am. I think it's tragic.
But I don't think the criteria are there to judge the officer's actions as wrong.
The officer made no effort to follow a standard escalation of force. That's wrong. A dog moving towards you is not grounds for killing the dog, period.
This is not the only video of the affair. There is another that shows the dog wagging it's tail.
This is not the only video of the affair. There is another that shows the dog wagging it's tail.
QKRTHNU
Member
That dog looked pretty small to me. And certainly didn't look like a threat. 
Officer was just a sissy. Why didn't he just a kick/knee and say "No!". Or maybe hit the dog with his shotgun at worst. The dog wasn't doing anything, just running around. I'd be pissed as hell if it was my dog.
I hope he gets fired.
It also looked like the one officer let the dog out. He looked into the car and said something like "I've got a dog in here." Then the dog comes out. Looks to me like that officer didn't think it was a big deal to let the dog out.
Officer was just a sissy. Why didn't he just a kick/knee and say "No!". Or maybe hit the dog with his shotgun at worst. The dog wasn't doing anything, just running around. I'd be pissed as hell if it was my dog.
I hope he gets fired.
It also looked like the one officer let the dog out. He looked into the car and said something like "I've got a dog in here." Then the dog comes out. Looks to me like that officer didn't think it was a big deal to let the dog out.
I am no LEO, and do not know what their proceedure is to follow in a case like this, but I sure wouldn't want to be in the LEO's shoes that shot the dog. If and when a jury hears and sees this tape, those people will probably retire on income from that department/city/county/state. I am condeming no one, but that tape and it's audio sure makes the LEO look like he screwed up.
Lone_Gunman
Member
I think it is a huge over-reaction on the part of the police.
I hope the family sues the hell out of them.
The family members are lucky they didnt get shot by these fools.
I hope the family sues the hell out of them.
The family members are lucky they didnt get shot by these fools.
answerguy
Member
Sure the police had to keep repeating orders at the occupants of the car, they had never been through anything like this before. They must have been in a daze as they were ordered out of their car and told to lie face down in the dirt. A little bit of reality entered their system as they realized that their dog might escape the safety of the car through the open door. I'm sure the only thing they thought could happen is that the dog could get out into traffic. And then to lie there helplessly and watch their family pet get executed, I can only begin to imagine the horror.
Braz
Member
gutless and cowardly
cratz2
Member
No, if the dog is 'attacking' then your response is to put him down. But... if I may be so bold, you're missing the point - several mistakes were made prior to the shooting of the dog. As a public servant, it is your #1 priority to protect the public. It is not your job to not go into an unknown situation literally guns a blazin' to investigate a possible felony situation.
By all counts, there is some sort of public employee right next to the door. On the Today Show, the kid said there was a person right next to the door where he got out of and he was asking him specifically to close the door which he chose not to do which was his decision to make.
So, a guy leaves his wallet on the roof of a car and money gets blown around/left behind. Someone makes a call and a cop decides to remove everyone from the car, hands in the air, down on the ground. They had guns drawn on them and the only crime that could be reasonably pinned on them at the time was littering. Don't ask any questions, just 'OUT', 'DOWN', 'BANG'.
The officer that asked the driver to get out of the car was wrong in doing that. The LEO that did not shut the door of the car was wrong in doing that. And the family will be should and will be compensated for making those decisions.
I can't say I blame the cop for shooting. Looks to me like the " little dog " is a 40 or 50 lb. Pit Bull. Considering the reputation these dogs have for being vicious and unpredictable, wagging its tail or not the dog does not get between me and my fellow officers.
Tamara
Senior Member
I'm wondering when "common sense" stopped being a job requirement for police work.
Not one officer on the scene went "Station wagon + luggage + out-of-state plates + holiday season + two smallish dogs + June + Ward + The Beav = Holy crap, we just pulled over the Cleavers by mistake! Ma'am, sir, I'm terribly sorry for the inconvenience!" Instead, it seems that everybody present was too busy singing the theme song from COPS! to themselves...
Not one officer on the scene went "Station wagon + luggage + out-of-state plates + holiday season + two smallish dogs + June + Ward + The Beav = Holy crap, we just pulled over the Cleavers by mistake! Ma'am, sir, I'm terribly sorry for the inconvenience!" Instead, it seems that everybody present was too busy singing the theme song from COPS! to themselves...
Sttirp
Member
Sttirp
Member
The Officers over reacted on this one....i usually try to give LEO the benefit of the doubt, ...those involved should be reprimanded....the City, County, and State should make amends...the ones shooting the dog, should never be allowed to carry a firearm again..... supposed that dog had been a small child,
though it wasn't...what would the officer had done then...it appeared to me, that the dog just wanted to be friendly...
though it wasn't...what would the officer had done then...it appeared to me, that the dog just wanted to be friendly...
ojibweindian
Member
Tamara
Haven't you heard? Common sense is an unfortunate victim of collateral damage in the WOD and WOT.
Haven't you heard? Common sense is an unfortunate victim of collateral damage in the WOD and WOT.
Fair 'n Square
Member
Thanks for posting the video. It just confirms a few things. Righteous stop or not, the cops clearly knew there were dogs in the car. They didn't bother to contain the dogs in the car. And when the dog got out (and what dog will stay in an open car when it's owners get out?), the only thing to do is shoot the poor dog.
I was angry about this before. Seeing the video makes me feel even worse for this family. No, this can't be covered up with "us'n did ever'thing right. To bad, folks, we're sorry (tee-hee). Here's a free hamburger and goodbye."
I was angry about this before. Seeing the video makes me feel even worse for this family. No, this can't be covered up with "us'n did ever'thing right. To bad, folks, we're sorry (tee-hee). Here's a free hamburger and goodbye."
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