Felony stop leaves family traumatized continued.... (THE POLICE DOG KILL VIDEO)
- Thread starter WonderNine
- Start date
- Status
Master Blaster
Member
Some of you may remember this from the firing line:
Here is the story of my dog attack, and I was carring my G-26 that day, so I could have drawn and fired, which is what a police officer would surely have done given the responses here.
Attacked by a Rotweiler on 12/30
Hi All, I hope you had a good holiday break.
ON Sunday I and my 4 year old sheltie were taking a nice walk in my neighborhood. We know all of the dogs on the route we usually take, and some bark greetings as we pass.
There is one house about half way around our usual route that has two dogs. The first is a norwegian elk hound. The second is a two year old female rottweiler.
As we were passing by on the opposite side of the street the two were out barking in the fenced in yard at their house. The Rottie usaully stands to the rear and lets the elkhound bark, Sunday was no different.
As we walk by I notice a movement out of the corner of my eye. The rotweiler had climbed up on top of a wood pile that is against the fence, and she lept over it and landed on the ground ( 4 foot high fence only). She then charged at Lacey and I full tilt.
It was in slo mo just like in the movies. the huge rottie charging at us full speed, she had about 35 yards to close to Lacey and I.
Lacey weights about 25 lbs and is a midsize sheltie (shetland sheepdog, some say minnie collie).
I do not know the rottie like I know some of the dogs in the neighborhood, and I became alarmed enought to grasp the butt of my G26 I prepared to draw and fire because I did not think we could outrun the rottie and there was no where to run to.
This was 2:00 pm Sunday afternoon.
I really did not want to shoot the dog but If you have ever been charged by a large rotweiller snarling and barking you will recognize that this is a fearsome sight. this dog was charging us and she meant to eat us for lunch.
So before I finnish the story what would you do in my place?
This is not a trick story or question and though I have said hello to the dogs owners I do not know them, or the dog.
As I was in the situation I felt it was a damned If I do damned if I dont scenario.
What would you have done?
The Conclusion:
Ok I guess I've kept you all in suspense long enough.
like I said I do not know the dog or the owners well but I have said hello in passing. Like me these folks have small children. While its impossible to predict the behavoir of even the friendly family dog when the dog is defending their territory I had the feeling I could control the situation without firing. I kept my hand on the glock just in case I was wrong.
The dog charged and I stood still and yelled NO NO bad dog.
This confused the rottie and she slowed down. At this point I realized she was after my dog. Lacey my sheltie, is aggressive towards other dogs when challenged. The rottie rushed up to us and Lacey lunged for her and bit the rottie on the side of the face. I was then caught in a circle dance between Lacey and the rottweiler, Lacey was doing the biting and then dodging out of the way.
I was yelling for the owner who I guess heard what was happening and came out to retreive his dog.
I really wanted to shoot the dogs owner but my life was not in any danger. It turned out that the rottweiler was sparing with Lacey the same way she does with the elkhound (the other dog these folks own) Neither Lacey or I were harmed, Lacey did have a bunch of Black fur stuck in her front teeth .
The owner, after I got done yelling at him, and I pointed out to him that this dog could kill a 6 year old on a bike and it would be his fault for not controlling his dog, promised to remove the woodpile his dog used as a springboard from beside the fence.
Lacey and I went by the next day and he had removed it!!!
I did not draw, and the owner of the dog was unaware that I was carrying. Had the dog really attacked me or Lacey I may have been forced to shoot it, but fortunately this did not happen.
Thanks for all of your responses.
__________________
Master Blaster, No relation to the remington kiln cleaning system
Beyond thunderdome, there is the Master (Brains) then there is the Blaster (Weapon)
Here is the story of my dog attack, and I was carring my G-26 that day, so I could have drawn and fired, which is what a police officer would surely have done given the responses here.
Attacked by a Rotweiler on 12/30
Hi All, I hope you had a good holiday break.
ON Sunday I and my 4 year old sheltie were taking a nice walk in my neighborhood. We know all of the dogs on the route we usually take, and some bark greetings as we pass.
There is one house about half way around our usual route that has two dogs. The first is a norwegian elk hound. The second is a two year old female rottweiler.
As we were passing by on the opposite side of the street the two were out barking in the fenced in yard at their house. The Rottie usaully stands to the rear and lets the elkhound bark, Sunday was no different.
As we walk by I notice a movement out of the corner of my eye. The rotweiler had climbed up on top of a wood pile that is against the fence, and she lept over it and landed on the ground ( 4 foot high fence only). She then charged at Lacey and I full tilt.
It was in slo mo just like in the movies. the huge rottie charging at us full speed, she had about 35 yards to close to Lacey and I.
Lacey weights about 25 lbs and is a midsize sheltie (shetland sheepdog, some say minnie collie).
I do not know the rottie like I know some of the dogs in the neighborhood, and I became alarmed enought to grasp the butt of my G26 I prepared to draw and fire because I did not think we could outrun the rottie and there was no where to run to.
This was 2:00 pm Sunday afternoon.
I really did not want to shoot the dog but If you have ever been charged by a large rotweiller snarling and barking you will recognize that this is a fearsome sight. this dog was charging us and she meant to eat us for lunch.
So before I finnish the story what would you do in my place?
This is not a trick story or question and though I have said hello to the dogs owners I do not know them, or the dog.
As I was in the situation I felt it was a damned If I do damned if I dont scenario.
What would you have done?
The Conclusion:
Ok I guess I've kept you all in suspense long enough.
like I said I do not know the dog or the owners well but I have said hello in passing. Like me these folks have small children. While its impossible to predict the behavoir of even the friendly family dog when the dog is defending their territory I had the feeling I could control the situation without firing. I kept my hand on the glock just in case I was wrong.
The dog charged and I stood still and yelled NO NO bad dog.
This confused the rottie and she slowed down. At this point I realized she was after my dog. Lacey my sheltie, is aggressive towards other dogs when challenged. The rottie rushed up to us and Lacey lunged for her and bit the rottie on the side of the face. I was then caught in a circle dance between Lacey and the rottweiler, Lacey was doing the biting and then dodging out of the way.
I was yelling for the owner who I guess heard what was happening and came out to retreive his dog.
I really wanted to shoot the dogs owner but my life was not in any danger. It turned out that the rottweiler was sparing with Lacey the same way she does with the elkhound (the other dog these folks own) Neither Lacey or I were harmed, Lacey did have a bunch of Black fur stuck in her front teeth .
The owner, after I got done yelling at him, and I pointed out to him that this dog could kill a 6 year old on a bike and it would be his fault for not controlling his dog, promised to remove the woodpile his dog used as a springboard from beside the fence.
Lacey and I went by the next day and he had removed it!!!
I did not draw, and the owner of the dog was unaware that I was carrying. Had the dog really attacked me or Lacey I may have been forced to shoot it, but fortunately this did not happen.
Thanks for all of your responses.
__________________
Master Blaster, No relation to the remington kiln cleaning system
Beyond thunderdome, there is the Master (Brains) then there is the Blaster (Weapon)
Baron Holbach
Member
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2003
- Messages
- 102
What about the judgement of the cell phone caller? He or she reportedly believed there had been a robbery after seeing money flying from off the top of the car. Subsequently, 911 was called and the dispatcher reported a possible felony.
Critique the reason for the felony stop? Okay.
Critique the dog being let out? Okay.
Now. Put that aside. Let's even assume that the stop was bad, and the cops did everything wrong on scene. Fine.
Now. Is it the opinion of all the critics here that an officer must accept being bitten by even a 25 lb dog? Just clarifying, here.
Does a dog get as much respect, regarding use of force, as a human being?
And, before anyone says that a 25 lb dog (looks closer to 30+ to me, but no matter) cannot kill a grown man, has anyone here ever suffered a major infection from a small animal bite? I have, and a 4 lb cat nearly cost me my left index finger, once. Consider the myriad of diseases that a dog may carry. Must the officer suffer being bitten, because the animal cannot at that moment rip out his throat?
This is a worthwhile question to ask, friends: stipulating that the dog was coming at the officer with intent to attack, under what circumstances would the officer have been justified in shooting it? Keeping in mind that he is occupied at that moment with a long gun that he cannot put down.
Critique the dog being let out? Okay.
Now. Put that aside. Let's even assume that the stop was bad, and the cops did everything wrong on scene. Fine.
Now. Is it the opinion of all the critics here that an officer must accept being bitten by even a 25 lb dog? Just clarifying, here.
Does a dog get as much respect, regarding use of force, as a human being?
And, before anyone says that a 25 lb dog (looks closer to 30+ to me, but no matter) cannot kill a grown man, has anyone here ever suffered a major infection from a small animal bite? I have, and a 4 lb cat nearly cost me my left index finger, once. Consider the myriad of diseases that a dog may carry. Must the officer suffer being bitten, because the animal cannot at that moment rip out his throat?
This is a worthwhile question to ask, friends: stipulating that the dog was coming at the officer with intent to attack, under what circumstances would the officer have been justified in shooting it? Keeping in mind that he is occupied at that moment with a long gun that he cannot put down.
KMKeller, My beagle dog is in the 25 lb. range, that one is somewhat larger. I'm sure that in the few seconds the unfortunate incident took place, that the cop was able to tell the difference between a bull/boxer mix and a pit bull.
2nd Amendment
member
Ever been attacked by a relatively small dog? A good kick to the head ends the situation pretty quickly. A good punch to the face will stop a pitbull, for pete sake. Unless the animal is trained to attack virtually any dog attack can be short circuited with little or no damage to anyone. What makes a dog attack turn ugly is not the skill or power of the animal but generally the reaction of the individual. Panic, pulling away after being bitten, reacting with blind fear.
Unless you're going up against a trained animal or more than one, have reason to suspect the animal is sick or have children to defend I can't see any legitimate reason to use lethal force on a dog. Very few warrant it. They are not killing machines, even when thoroughly pissed off.
Unless you're going up against a trained animal or more than one, have reason to suspect the animal is sick or have children to defend I can't see any legitimate reason to use lethal force on a dog. Very few warrant it. They are not killing machines, even when thoroughly pissed off.
Tamara
Senior Member
Matt G.,
It's the fact that Johnny Law went right to the shotgun here that bugs me.
My landlord's 30-lb. cockapoo barks more ferociously than that at the UPS man every day and has never even been kicked. (Of course, the UPS man doesn't carry a 'tactical' shotgun, so this may be a moot point.)
No "down!", no "no!", no kick, no OC, just *bang!*.
Besides, if Officer Law did not already have strong suspicions that this stop was a snafu from the get-go based on the fact that most armed robbery teams don't resemble the Griswolds so strongly, then I'm going to go so far as to suggest that he's ot-nay oo-tay ight-bray, if you know what I mean. Realizing this probably would have modified his actions by that point, making him less, not more, likely to use lethal force, but apparently he was still certain he was dealing with Bonnie & Clyde...
It's the fact that Johnny Law went right to the shotgun here that bugs me.
My landlord's 30-lb. cockapoo barks more ferociously than that at the UPS man every day and has never even been kicked. (Of course, the UPS man doesn't carry a 'tactical' shotgun, so this may be a moot point.)
No "down!", no "no!", no kick, no OC, just *bang!*.
Besides, if Officer Law did not already have strong suspicions that this stop was a snafu from the get-go based on the fact that most armed robbery teams don't resemble the Griswolds so strongly, then I'm going to go so far as to suggest that he's ot-nay oo-tay ight-bray, if you know what I mean. Realizing this probably would have modified his actions by that point, making him less, not more, likely to use lethal force, but apparently he was still certain he was dealing with Bonnie & Clyde...
Sttirp
Member
Under the circumstances, we do not really know what we would do, we were not there.... although the dog to me did not appear to be attacking the officer.
Even at best the officer still could have used pepper spray.... I would imagine the officer wishes he had reacted differently...
Sttirp
Seems to me the only one who did the right thing was the shooter. The The 911 caller exaggerated, the operator accepted the story at face value with no cooroberation, dispatchers took a BOLO and turned it into a felony stop and then a THP oficer left the damn door open knowing there were dogs inside the car. Along comes tail end Charlie who is forced to wack the dog. That was a good shoot, everything else was F'd up royally.
The dog wasn't trying to bite him. The dog hadn't tried to do anything, that's obvious from both tapes and the point as far as I'm concerned. You can't just blow away a dog for something you think it might do. Unless of course Officer Fife, er Hall is precognitive. But we know that isn't the case because if he was, he would have known this to be a bad stop. Every other officer that the dog trotted by was disinterested and paid the dog no heed. The State Trooper that was within a couple of feet when it exited the car wasn't bothered in the least. Officer Hall started backpeddling from the dog, which most dogs will construe as playtime.
My son has a 10 month old Pointer/Rotty mix. She's about 70 lbs and the most playful mutt on the planet. I've had to tell my six year old on a dozen different occassions that you don't run from a dog, because if it's in play mode, then it understands that you want to run and play chase; and if it's angry, then you just committed a fatal mistake. Both behaviors are part and parcel of a pack mentality. Any body who's spent any time around dogs knows that if you don't want a dog to chase, don't run.
A recent incident with my son and a neighbors dog had me putting my hand on the butt of concealed handgun. The dog lunged at from the owners leash and while moving my hand to my pistol, I was moving my foot to the dog's jaw. Foot intercepts jaw, dog yelps, owner apologizes, hand goes in pocket. Dog was an 85 pound Husky mix.
How much you wanna bet that Officer Fife, er Hall has a morbid fear of dogs? Caniphobe or some such?
My son has a 10 month old Pointer/Rotty mix. She's about 70 lbs and the most playful mutt on the planet. I've had to tell my six year old on a dozen different occassions that you don't run from a dog, because if it's in play mode, then it understands that you want to run and play chase; and if it's angry, then you just committed a fatal mistake. Both behaviors are part and parcel of a pack mentality. Any body who's spent any time around dogs knows that if you don't want a dog to chase, don't run.
A recent incident with my son and a neighbors dog had me putting my hand on the butt of concealed handgun. The dog lunged at from the owners leash and while moving my hand to my pistol, I was moving my foot to the dog's jaw. Foot intercepts jaw, dog yelps, owner apologizes, hand goes in pocket. Dog was an 85 pound Husky mix.
How much you wanna bet that Officer Fife, er Hall has a morbid fear of dogs? Caniphobe or some such?
Felonious Monk
Member
So many good points made here.
Tamara, I'm right on the same page with you.
My initial emotional reaction aside, I think Roscoe and Enos caught themselves an international terrorist group masquerading undercover as the Cleavers, and the dog was a HIGHLY trained Rhodesian attack dog masquerading as a family pet. The tail wagging was meant to make the LEO's drop their defenses, so he could go for the kill.
You guys trying to make this out as a justified shooting:
I can understand not wanting to add fuel to the fire of the "Us vs. Them" mentality that is becoming rampant. However, this whole incident was spiraling FAR out of control long before the shooting, which capped the whole thing as farcical and tragic.
FWIW, as I listened to the local drive-time talk radio this morning, more than one local good-ole boy mentioned the necessity for them to have to shoot him too, had they shot his dog.
(Maybe just a commentary on where I live, I dunno.)
While that should never be the case, I do hope they sue the pants off of the officer, and he never works in any job where he carries a lethal weapon again.
Matt G:
Tamara, I'm right on the same page with you.
My initial emotional reaction aside, I think Roscoe and Enos caught themselves an international terrorist group masquerading undercover as the Cleavers, and the dog was a HIGHLY trained Rhodesian attack dog masquerading as a family pet. The tail wagging was meant to make the LEO's drop their defenses, so he could go for the kill.
You guys trying to make this out as a justified shooting:
I can understand not wanting to add fuel to the fire of the "Us vs. Them" mentality that is becoming rampant. However, this whole incident was spiraling FAR out of control long before the shooting, which capped the whole thing as farcical and tragic.
FWIW, as I listened to the local drive-time talk radio this morning, more than one local good-ole boy mentioned the necessity for them to have to shoot him too, had they shot his dog.
(Maybe just a commentary on where I live, I dunno.)
While that should never be the case, I do hope they sue the pants off of the officer, and he never works in any job where he carries a lethal weapon again.
Matt G:
That's not the issue. You make it sound ridiculous. This officer was supposedly a trained LEO, holding a shotgun and Lord knows WHAT else. Can you say "Force continuum"? Can you say "buttstroke"? :banghead:
Stirrp, what's the rate of efficacy of pepper spray on dogs?
How fast can you deploy it when holding a shotgun that must not be put down?
What direction was the wind blowing?
______________________
Tamara, the officer was responding to a call of a felony. As the non-contact officer, he correctly armed himself with a shotgun, and stood back of the primary officers. I've no doubt that his patrol vehicle was several car-lengths back, but there is no way for him to have made a threat assessment prior to moving up, at which time the shotgun was already in his arms. Now he's a one-handed officer, because very few departments seem to see fit to put slings on their shotguns! ( :banghead: ) Please do me a favor and step back for a second, friends. Consider what you know now, after having sat in your chair and watched the video two or three times, vs what could be seen then, in the dark, with flashing lights, and a little adrenaline (which is, BTW, a good thing to have in your system-- it keeps you alive.). Would it be a good idea to throw your hands in the air and say "Golly, I guys we can just let these people go and head back to the Duncan Donuts", just because the "suspects" that got out of the car didn't look threatening? I don't see any guns pointed at the family members, specifically.
Folks, I'll agree that most of the time, policing's a pretty easy job. No doubt. There are times, though, when the safest way for everyone (including Ward and June and the Beav) is to complete your felony stops By The Book, because that leaves NO QUESTION. That means that you remain in control of your "Area Of Responsibility" until the scene is cleared. Why didn't the other officers react? Well, for one thing, they had their own AORs to cover. Remember that Team thing?
Do I wish the officer had just kicked the dog in the head? Sure I do. But I wasn't there, and neither were y'all.
How fast can you deploy it when holding a shotgun that must not be put down?
What direction was the wind blowing?
______________________
Tamara, the officer was responding to a call of a felony. As the non-contact officer, he correctly armed himself with a shotgun, and stood back of the primary officers. I've no doubt that his patrol vehicle was several car-lengths back, but there is no way for him to have made a threat assessment prior to moving up, at which time the shotgun was already in his arms. Now he's a one-handed officer, because very few departments seem to see fit to put slings on their shotguns! ( :banghead: ) Please do me a favor and step back for a second, friends. Consider what you know now, after having sat in your chair and watched the video two or three times, vs what could be seen then, in the dark, with flashing lights, and a little adrenaline (which is, BTW, a good thing to have in your system-- it keeps you alive.). Would it be a good idea to throw your hands in the air and say "Golly, I guys we can just let these people go and head back to the Duncan Donuts", just because the "suspects" that got out of the car didn't look threatening? I don't see any guns pointed at the family members, specifically.
Folks, I'll agree that most of the time, policing's a pretty easy job. No doubt. There are times, though, when the safest way for everyone (including Ward and June and the Beav) is to complete your felony stops By The Book, because that leaves NO QUESTION. That means that you remain in control of your "Area Of Responsibility" until the scene is cleared. Why didn't the other officers react? Well, for one thing, they had their own AORs to cover. Remember that Team thing?
Do I wish the officer had just kicked the dog in the head? Sure I do. But I wasn't there, and neither were y'all.
Sttirp
Member
Pepper spray or not....a swift kick to the head, if the dog got aggressive would prob have stopped the dog, or even just talking to the animal. The Officer shot without thinking..
And again.....most of the responses here this morning are arm chair responses...WE WERE NOT THERE
I knew it was coming.
The LEO's answer to everything.
Here it is folks: "But I wasn't there, and neither were y'all."
In this case, though we can ALL watch the videotape. We can ALL see the relaxed body language of the THP officers as the one strolls up to the car and spots the dogs (who were totally NON-violent for almost 3 minutes while the stop went down). Officer Hall saw that too. And we can ALL see that the dog isn't 40 pounds, ignores the closer officer he runs past, and is exhibiting non-threatening body language. Officer Hall could have seen that too.
We can see, we can hear, we can ALL observe what occured. And we can ALL critique his bad judgement.
The LEO's answer to everything.
Here it is folks: "But I wasn't there, and neither were y'all."
In this case, though we can ALL watch the videotape. We can ALL see the relaxed body language of the THP officers as the one strolls up to the car and spots the dogs (who were totally NON-violent for almost 3 minutes while the stop went down). Officer Hall saw that too. And we can ALL see that the dog isn't 40 pounds, ignores the closer officer he runs past, and is exhibiting non-threatening body language. Officer Hall could have seen that too.
We can see, we can hear, we can ALL observe what occured. And we can ALL critique his bad judgement.
Sttirp
Member
this was a very sensitive situation. I do a lot of walking in my neighborhood, 3- 5 miles every day. A lot of dogs bark at me, some even come after me, mostly only wanting to sniff.. me
Still the LEO in this situation overreacted...as a citizen I would have been very dazed and confused if it had happened to me, in this same situation...
Btw, I still support Law Enforcement..... they are on our side
and even the one guilty here, would prob have reacted differently had he thought about it, though in situation like this, you don't have time to think about what you would do...
meStill the LEO in this situation overreacted...as a citizen I would have been very dazed and confused if it had happened to me, in this same situation...
Btw, I still support Law Enforcement..... they are on our side
and even the one guilty here, would prob have reacted differently had he thought about it, though in situation like this, you don't have time to think about what you would do...
KMKeller, I impressed how much you are able to discern about the dog from the few seconds of video. Looked like a pit bull to me. Still can't blame the cop for shooting. I do wonder though, did anyone go back and find the money the old boy lost?
ojibweindian
Member
The Smoaks were puttering along in their loaded (with luggage) Taurus station waggon. As Tamara pointed out earlier, any blithering idiot with a modicum of common sense (and NORMAL levels of testosterone) could have determined that the Smoaks were more than likely not your arch-typical carjackers/kidnappers. It would have been very easy to simply pull them over, verify that these "felonious criminals" were, in fact, the Smoaks, inform Mr. Smoak that he dropped his wallet some miles back, return it to him, and wish him and his a great stay in Tenessee.
We could frame this differently; how 'bout this? The next time you're driving down the road and you see someone in the car next to you suddenly whip out a cell phone, ask yourself if the next thing you're prepared to see is several cop cars bearing down on ya?
We could frame this differently; how 'bout this? The next time you're driving down the road and you see someone in the car next to you suddenly whip out a cell phone, ask yourself if the next thing you're prepared to see is several cop cars bearing down on ya?
Yup. Sure can. And you know what? Use of force continuum is applicable to people.
Buttstroke? My gawd. Pray tell, who would train to use it on an animal which stands 2 feet tall, which would entail us looking down the barrel of our own chambered shotgun?
Much is made of the apparrent attitude of the animal as it exited the vehicle. Exploring the possibilities, could it be possible that the dog came out of the car, bouncy and happy, only to turn around, see his master and mistress threatened, and attack their apparrent agressors?
Further, could it be possible that the officer might have missed something that you believe you see in your viewing of the incident?
Folks, those are questions I pose before you for your consideration. I'm gonna sit the rest of this thread out, okay?
Y'all have fun!
Tamara
Senior Member
Matt G.,
*sigh* So many things to say here...
No, I'm not going to consider this outside the totality of the circumstances, and neither will a jury.
I was hoping that you'd remember that the last time I used the phrase "ot-nay oo-tay ight-bray" was in defending Officer Law for shooting Anthony Lee after Mssr. Lee pointed a fake Desert Ego at him. I kinda hoped it'd remind you that I really do try not to make knee-jerk "cop bashing" reponses. I hope that those on the other side of the badge try equally hard not to make automatic "cop defending" ones.
Why, when it's by a Tennessee roadside, it's "By The Book" and a good thing, but when it's at a school or airport it's "Zero Tolerance" and a dumb thing that removes personal judgement and decision-making skills from the loop?
There were scenarios where I'd be defending the officer for the identical action: If the dog was bigger, or making a more serious-looking attack run. If, instead of the Griswolds, the stop had been a car full of adolescent males. Perhaps more...
*sigh* So many things to say here...
No, I'm not going to consider this outside the totality of the circumstances, and neither will a jury.
I was hoping that you'd remember that the last time I used the phrase "ot-nay oo-tay ight-bray" was in defending Officer Law for shooting Anthony Lee after Mssr. Lee pointed a fake Desert Ego at him. I kinda hoped it'd remind you that I really do try not to make knee-jerk "cop bashing" reponses. I hope that those on the other side of the badge try equally hard not to make automatic "cop defending" ones.
Why, when it's by a Tennessee roadside, it's "By The Book" and a good thing, but when it's at a school or airport it's "Zero Tolerance" and a dumb thing that removes personal judgement and decision-making skills from the loop?
There were scenarios where I'd be defending the officer for the identical action: If the dog was bigger, or making a more serious-looking attack run. If, instead of the Griswolds, the stop had been a car full of adolescent males. Perhaps more...
Mover
Also, if you look at the last few frames of the video prior to Officer Hall shooting the dog, you'll see that the dog was trying to figure out what the shotgun was. It would appear that the dog was trying to sniff the muzzle of the gun.
Odd how the money was never mentioned. Some good ol' boy driving along found himself some beer money! One also has to wonder if they found the wallett and ran the plates on the car. If they had, they would've realized that the two belonged to the same person.
Sarcasm aside, you'd be surprised... For instance, a boxer has a height range of 21-25 inches at the shoulder, a beagle, roughly 13-15 inches. If you add another 3-5 inches to the beagle to account for it's head, it stands roughly 18-20 inches at the head. I'm 6'1" tall and my knee joint is right at 21-22 inches. If you look at the video and take the cant of the camera into account, the dog's head doesn't come past the officer's knee. That places the dog in roughly the same size frame as your beagle or possible an inch or two larger. I stand by my original estimate. Further, the dog displays the slighter build of the boxer rather than the stocky build of the bulldog.
Also, if you look at the last few frames of the video prior to Officer Hall shooting the dog, you'll see that the dog was trying to figure out what the shotgun was. It would appear that the dog was trying to sniff the muzzle of the gun.
Odd how the money was never mentioned. Some good ol' boy driving along found himself some beer money! One also has to wonder if they found the wallett and ran the plates on the car. If they had, they would've realized that the two belonged to the same person.
Mover:
"though in situation like this, you don't have time to think about what you would do..."
It just struck me. If he did any mental role playing (like they teach in most academies) he did have time to think about what he would do if a dog approached him. I suspect he went to the incident with the choice already made in his mind - "the dog is toast" - because, in his mental role playing the dog ALWAYS was a threat and he'd conditioned himself to shoot immediately. What's that old saying? Ah yes, you fight like you train. And he did.
Unfortunately, his mental "training" was defective because it focussed exclusively on SHTF situations while in real life a very high % of stops are not such and many involve innocent persons. Remember almost all civilians have never personally encountered a policeman in his or her enforcement role.
"though in situation like this, you don't have time to think about what you would do..."
It just struck me. If he did any mental role playing (like they teach in most academies) he did have time to think about what he would do if a dog approached him. I suspect he went to the incident with the choice already made in his mind - "the dog is toast" - because, in his mental role playing the dog ALWAYS was a threat and he'd conditioned himself to shoot immediately. What's that old saying? Ah yes, you fight like you train. And he did.
Unfortunately, his mental "training" was defective because it focussed exclusively on SHTF situations while in real life a very high % of stops are not such and many involve innocent persons. Remember almost all civilians have never personally encountered a policeman in his or her enforcement role.
Gila Jorge
Member
I trust that these poor folks sue the bejabbers out of these ignorant jack boots.
Sttirp
Member
Agree with this completely.....
- Status
