Ferrous metal in bullets ?

[ants]

And furthermore...

I buy them cheaply online, gun shops and gun shows for practice ammo. Perhaps your colleagues can survey local resources to determine the most common iron & steel bullets in your area.

If you get loaded ammo, any local reloader with a bullet puller will help you disassemble so you can collect the projectiles.

 

[RTR_RTR]

Are these iron containing jackets alloys? Some alloys made partially with magnetic metal lose the magnetism. At any rate, I've heard of nickel compounds being run through NMR without problem other than some initial field distortion that makes you reshim prior to scanning, so I wouldn't imagine very trace iron would be a big problem

 

[mp510]

The rws 9x19 ammo they sell at Wal-Mart has ferrous-containing jackets. I used to own a box of Interarms repacked Czech armor piercing 9mm that has magnetic bullets as well. Just about all Russian (and combloc, except Yugo) ammo has magnetic bimetal jackets.

 

[HOWARD J]

This Chinese 7.62 X 39 copper wash steel case/ steel core was banned by Clinton.
There is still a lot of it around.

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[bigfatdave]

HOWARD J, that looks like the China Sports Tokarev ammo I've got
Good stuff for plinking at least, it is in amazing shape considering the crappy cardboard/styrofoam packaging it is falling out of.

 

[NukemJim]

leVieux, a question please, how do you determine the difference between the steel and lead shot? I am curious are you using plain films, the Hounsfied Unit measurement from CTs, or some other method?

Just curiousity from a X-Ray Tech/Nuc Med Tech.

Thank you

NukemJim

 

[-v-]

I cannot speak of all handgun rounds, but for some of the more common on-the-street rifle rounds, there is a definite possibility of the bullet having an iron/steel based construction. Most nearly all 7.62x39 ammo has either a steel jacket or a steel insert in it. This is primarily done as a cost-saving measure in manufacturing, since iron is much cheaper then copper. So, any bullets left in the body by an AK-patter rifle should be assumed to be ferrous-bearing.

Some ammunition for AR-15's is also steel-bearing. The M855 round sold as surplus has a steel component to the bullet to aid in penetration. This round will usually tumble violently and break apart. However, a large amount of .223 ammunition for AR-15s is non-steel bearing, so a clinical decision will have to be made based on the location of the fragments within the patient.

An other kink in this system is ammunition imported from Russia, which for the sake of expediency, can be assumed to be all steel jacketed. This ammunition comes in many calibers, from .223 to .308 to 9mm and .40 S&W. This ammunition has been finding its way onto Wal-Mart shelves, and I am sure into the ammo stockpiles of gang-bangers. An indicator that the ammunition used is steel-jacketed is that you should see very little deformation/fragmentation on x-ray. Without specifically x-raying the site of the bullet, I am unsure if a CT will offer enough resolution to distinguish how much deformation a bullet has experienced.

 

[GLOOB]

Times are changing

^+1. It used to be, one could buy the ferrous jacketed foreign surplus stuff at gunshows. Then it became easily available if you mail ordered it. Even then, it was limited to military calibers, especially 9mm, 9x18, 7x25 tokarev, and military rifle calibers. Just a few months ago, my local Walmart shelves were stocked chock full of Tulammo as the cheapest kind of ammo you can get in all of the common semi-auto handgun calibers, including non-military calibers (.380 and even .40 SW, which is obviously aimed at the US civilian market). AFAIK, this is bimetal (ferrous) jacketed. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[bubba15301]

some norma ammo has steel jacketed bullets

 

[sansone]

we are seeing more ferrous containing projectiles than ever before. I believe it is because ammo prices have more than doubled in 2 years

 

[Zsnark]

Fire hazard with ferrous ammo?

A couple of years ago, I procured a bunch of 7.62X39mm and 5.56X45mm for use in my Mini-14 and SKS. Guys who run the range won't let me shoot it 'cause it's 'sposed to be a fire hazard. True or false?

Also, what's the difference between ferrous and non-ferrous; assuming the fire hazard is not a factor? I've read that experts state that the steal jackets are such mild steel that they do not produce excessive wear in the bore.

Thank, all; and, Happy Holidays.

AAW

 

[Army]

A couple of years ago, I procured a bunch of 7.62X39mm and 5.56X45mm for use in my Mini-14 and SKS. Guys who run the range won't let me shoot it 'cause it's 'sposed to be a fire hazard. True or false?

There is a slim/possible/unlikely chance of the steel in the bullet causing enough of a spark when impacting a steel target, sending that spark into enough grass or tinder to start a fire.

Steel jacket is indeed mild enough to be safe in the bore, causing no more wear than normal cupro-nickle jackets.

 

[thehootman]

^+1. It used to be, one could buy the ferrous jacketed foreign surplus stuff at gunshows. Then it became easily available if you mail ordered it. Even then, it was limited to military calibers, especially 9mm, 9x18, 7x25 tokarev, and military rifle calibers. Just a few months ago, my local Walmart shelves were stocked chock full of Tulammo as the cheapest kind of ammo you can get in all of the common semi-auto handgun calibers, including non-military calibers (.380 and even .40 SW, which is obviously aimed at the US civilian market). AFAIK, this is bimetal (ferrous) jacketed. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Tulammo is coming out of the same exact factory as Wolf in Russia.

http://tulammousa.com/products/

If you look at the fired casings for new Glock Pistols you can see some Wolf/Tula ammo was used to test fire as the casings will be steel.

Walmart has tons and tons of this stuff now for sale in the USA in pistol calibers. One can only assume it will be showing up in emergency rooms forthwith.

 

[ol' scratch]

Greek HXP attracts a magnet in 30-06. That is a non AP round. I doubt you see many of those rounds flying around from what you are describing, however.

I know the old Carcano ammo had a steel core, but again, you don't see to many shootings with a milsurp Italian rifle. I can think of one REALLY famous one, but you can look that one up on your own.

As already mentioned, much of the milsurp stuff has some ferrous metal present. I don't know of any handgun ammo that does, however.

 

[HOWARD J]

@bigfatdave


This is Norinco--berdan --corrosive-copper wash steelcase-steel core bullet.
I came in those nasty to open steel cans.
I had 2200 rds@8 cents---I still have about 15/1600 rds.left.

 

[bigfatdave]

HOWARD J mine is non-corrosive from "China Sports", Berdan primed as far as I know, and was cheap and available right after I got my CZ52.
I'd bet that "china sports" is simply Norinco under a different name/importer, it looks very similar with the same exact wash on steel casing and projectile.

===

I think the OP has an answer, Iron-containing projectiles aren't that uncommon, if it looks like ball/FMJ and isn't deformed on an X-ray, it might be steel, but more likely it would have sailed on through meat and be gone.

Magnetize a set of forceps?

 

[justashooter in pa]

different kinds of steel have been used as bullet cores. hardened steel has been used as penetrator core. softer steel has been used to conserve lead in bullets, copper in jackets, and brass in cases (critical war material). in the last 2 years of WW2 enriched uranium was used in tank rounds by nazi germany as penetrator cores ( they knew they didn't have enuf to run a nuke development project).

your job as a physician is to "do no harm". use different imaging in cases involving gunshot wounds. there is just too much surplus and modern production from military lines out there to risk presence of steel in shot fragments.

 

[supergoat343]

Recently purchased some cheap surplus .303 British from the Czech Republic. Its steel core on a solid brass case. I can see other .30 caliber rounds like 7.62NATO, 7.62X39, or 7.62X54 being mass produced overseas with steel cores, but .303...... really?
Apparently the stuff is barely legal now and not allowed on most ranges. I had never thought to look for steel core in my surplus before. Now I know...I guess.

 

[SpaceFrank]

FYI, I just tested 3 types of .45 ACP ammo I had on hand. These are all Brass-cased FMJ. None of them were attracted to a hard drive magnet I pulled off my fridge.

-Winchester White Box
-Remington UMC (from the 250-rd Mega Pack)
-Monarch Brass from Academy. After reading this thread, I half-expected this one to have a magnetic jacket, but it surprised me. If I'm not mistaken, it's manufactured by PRVI Partisan in Serbia.

I also tested some Steel-cased Monarch 7.62x39, and it obviously did have a magnetic bullet. It's probably made at the same plant as Wolf and Tula. I wish I had some of the Monarch Steel .223 to verify, but I shot it all a few days ago.

Monarch Brass .223, also made in Serbia, passed the test as non-magnetic.

 

[Dr.Rob]

ALL the 5.56mm M855 with the steel penetrator I've handled sticks to a magnet.

 

[gbw]

From the web site of gibrass.com.

They sell surplus military reloading components and have advertised projectiles as magnetic or non-magnetic. A sample from their current listings for some .308 bullets (emphasis added):

.308 diameter
147 gr. Just in, 7.62mm NATO Ball M80 bullets. This is a FMJBT Spitzer, pulldown
Ball M80 by Lake City AAP. These are some of the nicest M80 bullets I have ever had.
Cleaned and polished. These are boattail design, FMJ, 147gr weight.
Available two ways; gilding metal (non magnetic) and GMCS (gilding metal clad
steel - magnetic). Both types are Lake City manufacture.
$16/100; $75/500; $125/1000 (magnetic)
$18/100; $85/500; $150/1000 (non magnetic

 

[neededausername]

These are pictures of a 7.62X54r soviet surplus round. As has been said it would be unlikely for you to find one of these in a patient because this round is a rifle round and very high powered compared to a hand gun round. Also these rounds were designed to penetrate people, not stay inside of them. I've seen these punch a hole in a steel plate at 80 yards. So unless your patient was standing against a very strong metal wall when he was shot you are unlikely to find one of these. I just wanted to prove that there are rounds that a magnet will stick to.

[IMG=http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/4730/03122011020.jpg][/IMG]

 

[brickeyee]

There is a slim/possible/unlikely chance of the steel in the bullet causing enough of a spark when impacting a steel target, sending that spark into enough grass or tinder to start a fire.

Or striking rocks or gravel.

If flammable fuel (grass, etc.) is nearby and dry enough, it takes surprisingly little to set it aflame.

 

[RimfireChris]

leVieux,

Nobody's mentioned it yet, but BBs from a BB gun are also steel, just something to bear in mind, especially with the younger folks.