FFFFg black powder usage, other than flintlock
- Thread starter orpington
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Patocazador
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You can safely use it in a Ruger Old Army. Reduce the charges as it will ignite and burn much faster. Don't use it in an Italian replica or brass-framed gun except at your own risk.
See if you can trade it to someone for a can of 3FG.
See if you can trade it to someone for a can of 3FG.
Skirmisher 263
Member
Yes you can use it in any "reasonably sound" revolver. 15 to 18 grs would provide an adequate target/plinking load with filler or wads in .44s, 12 to 15 grs in .36s. It does burn faster and generally cleaner than 3F but then so does 3F over 2F. Swiss brand will generate higher pressure than Goex, etc. but it is not a concern due to the pressure curve characteristics of BP with reasonable loads.
The foregoing is based on 39 years of continuous competition trying all brands attempting to find the sweet spot, at about 600 to 800 rounds a year now.
The foregoing is based on 39 years of continuous competition trying all brands attempting to find the sweet spot, at about 600 to 800 rounds a year now.
loose noose
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What was just stated, use a reduced load in revolvers as well as percussion rifles. It is just a finely grained black powder.
vagunmonkey
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15g of 4F is what i shoot in my Pietta "shooters model" Remington, and 8g in my .36 Uberti police.
I think a 38 case will hold more then 20g...
I think a 38 case will hold more then 20g...
Skirmisher 263
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The .38 LC used a heeled bullet and a case full of BP of the period, probably 2F. If you don't have the appropriate sized bullet then a full case is just going to make a lot of smoke and noise and little results on paper. Do a little on line research on the cartridge and you should find a manufacturer or two that produce the correct bullet as a result of use in SASS competitions. Load moderately and enjoy that piece of history.
SleazyRider
Member
For reasons of curiosity only: could the propagation rate of the FFFF be retarded to some degree by mixing it with an inert ingredient such as sawdust? I, too, have more FFFF than I'll ever need.
Skirmisher 263
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SleazyRider
It's not a good idea to mix BP with anything for repeatable results. Depending upon what you want to use it in just load down "some". If it's a handgun cartridge round or percussion revolver use a filler (grits or cream of wheat) to allow the bullet to provide a little bit of compression. The bigger the cartridge the more that variables enter in and BPCR shooters are more adept to advise.
It's not a good idea to mix BP with anything for repeatable results. Depending upon what you want to use it in just load down "some". If it's a handgun cartridge round or percussion revolver use a filler (grits or cream of wheat) to allow the bullet to provide a little bit of compression. The bigger the cartridge the more that variables enter in and BPCR shooters are more adept to advise.
What if you mix it with say 3F?
Didnt goex make a "cowboy" powder at one time that was 2F and 3F mixed or something like that? Or maybe 3F and 4F?
It was a mix of 2 powders im pretty sure but im not for sure wich 2 speeds.
I would think you could sort of stretch the powder this way
351 WINCHESTER
Member
I wonder how 3f 777 would compare to 4f black?
I watched a youtube video a guy put the same amounts of powder on paper and lit each one. 3 different speeds
The faster the powder the less fouling it left behind. I like that idea but with 4F you use so little that you have to add filler and that brings in fouling if im not mistaken.
3F swiss to me feels about the same as 3F T7
The faster the powder the less fouling it left behind. I like that idea but with 4F you use so little that you have to add filler and that brings in fouling if im not mistaken.
3F swiss to me feels about the same as 3F T7
May be starting something but...
If you have a Ruger Old Army you can stuff as much 4F as you can get in the cylinder. Here is a quote directly from Ruger's manual
"Black Powder is usually classified by powder grain size, with “Fg” being the largest granulation and “FFFFg” being the smallest granulation normally available. Any granulation within these gradations could be used in the “Old Army”; normally, however, “FFFg” is the preferred
grain size"
And...I've tried it. I put 45 grains of 4F Swiss in a cylinder deepened by Clements as well as a Classicballistx which holds even more. I fired a couple of cylinders full. It was an impressive load but not as much as the same amount of Triple 7.
I did it to try it but don't bother with it any more. For power, Triple 7 still beats it and 4F is almost like dust. Pouring 40 to 45 grains of dust in half a dozen chambers tends to almost cause a cloud.
This is in a ROA...in anything else.......you're on your own.
If you have a Ruger Old Army you can stuff as much 4F as you can get in the cylinder. Here is a quote directly from Ruger's manual
"Black Powder is usually classified by powder grain size, with “Fg” being the largest granulation and “FFFFg” being the smallest granulation normally available. Any granulation within these gradations could be used in the “Old Army”; normally, however, “FFFg” is the preferred
grain size"
And...I've tried it. I put 45 grains of 4F Swiss in a cylinder deepened by Clements as well as a Classicballistx which holds even more. I fired a couple of cylinders full. It was an impressive load but not as much as the same amount of Triple 7.
I did it to try it but don't bother with it any more. For power, Triple 7 still beats it and 4F is almost like dust. Pouring 40 to 45 grains of dust in half a dozen chambers tends to almost cause a cloud.
This is in a ROA...in anything else.......you're on your own.
Really? wow i wouldnt of thought that. I dont notice much difference from 3F swiss and 3F T7
Good to know though
Curator
Member
I have taken apart many cartridges from the 1880s loaded with black powder for museum displays. Small pistol cartridges like .32S&W, .32 Long Colt, .38 Short Colt, .38S&W, .44 American. All appeared to be loaded with extremely fine (FFFFg or finer) powder. Most was not heavily compressed. Compared to modern Goex, the old handgun powders were smaller granulation than 4F. A sample of Curtis & Harvey "sporting" (FFFg) form the 1950s is smaller than modern 4F too. I have loaded both the .32S&W and the .38S&W using 4Fg Goex to shoot in top-break revolvers without any problems.
4F would be good for black powder blanks.
If you know any Civil War re-enactors, I have burned a LOT of fine grained powder similar to 4F in debris mortars for civil war battlefield effects. Much safer than some other things, doesn't require an HE license and it makes the "right color smoke" for the period.
Or- find someone who makes pyrotechnics and offer it to them... 4F is used for priming, small expeller/burster charges, as well as adjusting burn speed of some kinds of stars.
Since cheap Aluminum powder became available, there are not a lot of salutes (think firecracker. BIG firecracker) made with BP- But 4F would be a good choice for that too.
(Don't do any of these things, particularly in front of an audience, without someone who knows how to do it safely and has the correct licenses & insurance)
http://www.hollywoodpyrotechnics.com/
If you know any Civil War re-enactors, I have burned a LOT of fine grained powder similar to 4F in debris mortars for civil war battlefield effects. Much safer than some other things, doesn't require an HE license and it makes the "right color smoke" for the period.
Or- find someone who makes pyrotechnics and offer it to them... 4F is used for priming, small expeller/burster charges, as well as adjusting burn speed of some kinds of stars.
Since cheap Aluminum powder became available, there are not a lot of salutes (think firecracker. BIG firecracker) made with BP- But 4F would be a good choice for that too.
(Don't do any of these things, particularly in front of an audience, without someone who knows how to do it safely and has the correct licenses & insurance)
http://www.hollywoodpyrotechnics.com/
There is even a finer powder available Swiss Null-B. That must be like talcum. I have no wish to try it. Handling that stuff must be a chore. I bet static electricity would equivalent to the powder coating process they paint chassis parts with now.
You have to get a background check or something for that stuff i believe?
Mike OTDP
Member
Null-B is great stuff for priming. It handles like any other black powder.
swathdiver
Member
Swiss 4fg shot fine in a Pietta Remington Belt Revolver, .36 caliber. Even used it to send conicals downrange. None dripped out of the stock cones either before capping.
mdauben
Member
I'd say, look for someone with a flintlock gun. If you were local to me, I'd swap you 2 cans of BP substitute for one your one can of FFFFg. Real black powder of any kind is hard to find around here these days, let alone FFFFg. Pleanty of BP substitutes but they don't work well for primer charges in flinters.
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