figured out why my rossi circuit judge is not accurate...

[hipoint]

Well, unless Hornady screwed up a batch of ammo and put .444Marlin bullets into .45Colt brass I'd say that you need to go back and read or re-read bigedp51's post about how some bullets are smaller on the exposed portion but still right for the part that's in the case. If this is common then you can measure factory ammo all you want and will just become even more confused. What you REALLY need is a bullet puller and then measure the portion of the bullet that is inside the casing. Until you pull the bullets so you can perform an honest measurement you're just shooting in the dark.

I agree, however there is a HUGE discrepancy... I can fit the .45 colt down in the barrel to the casing... I try the same thing with my .45 pistol and it stops before the casing hits like it should... while I agree this isn't scientific it does show something is amiss.

RC, the reason I'm trying to fix something for it rather than give it up is $500 dollars is ALOT OF MONEY for me to spend on a gun, and due to the fact that I won't sell it without telling someone why I don't like it, when people find out it sucks, they don't want it

451 that's something I have been considering, finding the brass .410 hulls and working up a load for it... I don't believe the cylinder jump is causing the issue as much as the fact that the bullet isn't even touching the barrel on it's way out, however the .410 brass cases should fix that... maybe... I've been putting off reloading, but looks like I might as well take the plunge, as long as I get a kit that will work for my other cartridges then it won't hurt so bad to spend it... Might have to wait until after the holidays though as I'm pretty tapped out right now.

 

[LoonWulf]

AND, you should slug your barrel. See if your bullets match your tube. Just taking a caliper to the muzzle isnt accurate enough IMHO. I tried that with my nagant and came up with .315. Sluged it with a fishing led and came up with .310+/-. You can also feel if the bore is uneven, rod and slug get tighter or sudenly arnt tight anymore. If your bore is REALY out of spec you should call Rossi and see about getting it replaced, or fixed.

 

[hipoint]

AND, you should slug your barrel. See if your bullets match your tube. Just taking a caliper to the muzzle isnt accurate enough IMHO. I tried that with my nagant and came up with .315. Sluged it with a fishing led and came up with .310+/-. You can also feel if the bore is uneven, rod and slug get tighter or sudenly arnt tight anymore. If your bore is REALY out of spec you should call Rossi and see about getting it replaced, or fixed.

that will be done just as soon as I can get a bullet out of a case? I tried today and succeeded only in severely deforming a bullet which is still in the case hehe

I may just have to order some off of the internet as there is no way I'll find what I need locally, around here if it isn't .308 or 30-06 it doesn't exist...

 

[LoonWulf]

I used a fishing lead to check my nagant. You might be able to find one the right size lol. I can understand how hard it can be to find stuff. Im rather lucky i reload or 1/2 the stuff i want to shoot i cant get ammo for when i want it.

 

[bigedp51]

I agree, however there is a HUGE discrepancy... I can fit the .45 colt down in the barrel to the casing... I try the same thing with my .45 pistol and it stops before the casing hits like it should....

Stop being so hard headed and realize the bullet test is completely "WORTHLESS" unless you "scientifically" measure your bullet before you use it.

while I agree this isn't scientific it does show something is amiss.

What your "UNSCIENTIFIC" test proves is why they made precision bore gauges and "WHY" some people get "HOT" under the collar when photos taken by knowledgeable people about bullet diameter do NOT sink into your gray matter.

This is a "REAL" bore gauge below and people who use them are not fumbling around in the dark trying to use a uncalibrated, unmeasured bullet.



This bore gauge below is to only enter the bore by no more than 1/8 of an inch on a British made .303 five groove barrel.
Did the bore below fail the "scientific" test?...........
NO because its a brand new Canadian made six groove barrel and its the "wrong" gauge.
(Now think about your bullet test and not knowing the bore diameter of your "shallow" groove rifling)



I hope you now understand how worthless the "bullet test" is when you do not now the bullet diameter and understand what bullet octave and bore diameter can play in this half arsed testing method. Your barrel is a compromise, it was designed to do two different things and it wasn't designed for bench rest accuracy. Your barrel was designed for being up close and personal and getting peoples attention when they are looking down the .45 caliber hole in the end of the barrel.

Those who fail to read history are doomed to screw it up the second time around.............
Please notice below that it had "TWO" barrels and didn't compromise "ACCURACY".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeMat_Revolver

Signed
Ed Horton
Certified Master Level Quality Control Inspector
Who still gets really red arsed when people do not listen.......
Now guess where you can put this stray "UNCALIBRATED" bullet of yours. :banghead:

Thank you, I feel much better now that I've gotten this off my chest...........

 

[Redlg155]

I tried today and succeeded only in severely deforming a bullet which is still in the case

I would say to try a bullet puller as this would be the best way, however, I woud instead just buy a kit designed for slugging your barrel.

This is an interesting article.
http://lbtmoulds.com/measurebore.shtml

As for attemtping to put a bullet in the forcing cone area to measure, I would think that the Rossi would have a very long forcing cone area, much like the constriction in a shotgun choke in order for it to safely handle shot loads in .410.

I would also try .410 slugs to see how they handle.

 

[theicemanmpls]

Rosi is owned by Taurus. A company well known to many "gun guys". I have often wondered if Taurus is ever awarded any agency contracts for firearms?

Sell the Rossi, and get a Model 1894CSS Marlin.

 

[rcmodel]

I can fit the .45 colt down in the barrel to the casing... I try the same thing with my .45 pistol and it stops before the casing hits like it should.... while I agree this isn't scientific it does show something is amiss.

No, it most certainly does not.

Most .45 Colt loads have a bullet ogive that starts getting smaller right at the case mouth / roll crimp.

Your auto pistol loads probably don't, and they are taper crimped.

Like everyone is trying to tell you, the part that sticks out of the case is NOT bore diameter bullet shank.

SO sticking a loaded rounds bullet in the muzzle simply cannot tell you anything at all about actual bullet diameter, or how it fits the bore, or doesn't.

rc

 

[bigedp51]

Thank you rcmodel.....................
If your posting doesn't work............
we will have to hit him over the head with a shovel and hope that it will leave a bigger impression on his mind.

 

[BSA1]

I would like to offer a few comments as I have a lot of experience reloading the 45 Colt. In fact the 45 Colt is my most used cartridge. As others have said to determine if your gun can be made to shoot accurately you need to measure the barrel and cylinder chambers correctly.

First of all specs for the 45 Colt are all over the place. This round has been around just about forever in cartridge rounds terms. The correct bore diameter is .454" but some gun and ammo manufacturers cut corners by using .452" as a standard. .455" and .456" chamber mouths and bores are common.

Second to measure "slug" your barrel you need to drive a oversize soft lead bullet down the barrel using a non-marring brass rod and hammer.

Next you need to measure the chamber mouths of the cylinder. Here is a quick and dirty way. You will need a .452 and .454" lead bullet. Hold the cylinder with the front pointing towards floor and carefully drop a .452" bullet in the chamber. If it falls through onto the floor try the .454" bullet. The bullet that most closely matches the diameter of the chamber mouth will hang up in chamber mouth and not fall onto the floor.

Once you have these measurements then bullet selection is much easier. I have a Colt SAA 45 Colt with a .454" bore and .456" chamber mouths. The only factory bullet I have found that shoots accurately is Remington 255 gr. lead bullet. It has a hollow base that allows the skirt to expand to fit the oversize chambers and then squeeze down for the barrel.

If you lack the tools to perform these steps I suggest you simply buy a box Remingtons and test them at the range.

I hopes this helps.

 

[Lovesbeer99]

I like the discussion and all the technical trouble shooting but I think you're wasting your time. Bottom line is you own a multi-caliber Taurus. You either get lucky and find a shooter or you're unlucky and you get a pig. That's just Taurus. You might be able to improve your situation with handloads but I'd suggest you either accept it as it is or get rid of it.

For the record I will never own a Taurus again.

 

[PoserHoser]

some of the circuit barrels are smooth not rifled

 

[LoonWulf]

LOL, you know this whole thing has me intrigued. Id like to get a CCJ just to measure and tinker with. If i wasnt broke id offer to buy yours, Hipoint lol.

 

[T Bran]

If as posted above the gun has very shallow rifling you may need to slow the bullet down a little as this may be causing the bullet to " strip" on the rifling somewhat. In the event that nothing else works try to retreive a bullet and see how well it engaged the rifling or if it looks like it just smeared it's way through. Just a thought.
T

 

[hipoint]

well, maybe you guys were right, and maybe not... but I just got some fiocchi 250 grain wadcutter ammo... at the casing it measured .454... works great, I'm now holding groups at 75 yards.

While I do not discount all of your opinions, experience has proven that the hornady ammo measured .444 and this ammo measured .454... maybe I was not measuring the correct part of the bullet and I DO NOT DISPUTE that fact, but for whatever reason it is now holding very nice groups...

The scope was removed so I don't see much of a purpose to measure grouping on a paper target, but at 75 yards I can now bounce a soda can, used 15 rounds and at the very least hit close enough to it to move the can each time.

I certainly thank everyone for their help, all their trouble and time spent on this... You guys uploaded pictures and took lots of time explaining things to me that I did not know, sincerely, thank you. This is a very nice forum. I still hold to my original assertion though, those hornady's were too small, maybe I got a bad batch? I wouldn't speculate on that. Maybe it's the wadcutter design as opposed to the hornady jacketed design? I can't say. What I do know is with my cheap calipers, the hornady's measured .444 at the case, and the fiocchi measured .454 at the case. They also do not fit in the end of the gun either....

Maybe it's dumb luck probably is, but regardless this gun is now doing what I hoped it would and I'm happy with it, soda can at 75 yards is more than enough for my uses.

Once again, thank you all for all the time spent helping me!

 

[R.W.Dale]

The hornady bullet in question is a. 451" diameter projectile BANK ON THAT

Now you've stepped up to a. 454" bullet for a. 003" net increase in diameter. This is no small change especially in a firearm with an oversized bore and shallow rifling.

More accuracy could probably be had but you're going to have yo get more precise than just sticking bullets into the muzzle

posted via tapatalk using android.

 

[DM~]

a loaded round should only go in the muzzle a little bit, not anywhere near down to the case mouth.

That isn't completely true.

It really depends on how much taper the bullet has to the crimping groove. The bullet could be the proper size below the groove, and i suspect that in this case, it is.

DM

 

[Maj Dad]

Re-look at rc's post #22 - that is your explanation. Same problem in rifles with shot-out throats, like my brother-in-law's 22-250 - he had to re-barrel. You can counter-bore a messed up muzzle, but if the bullet rattles around in an oversized leade after leaving the case, you're hosed...