Filling 124gr 9mm hollow point with lead shot and wax

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paladinj

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Hello all,

I have the opportunity to buy 124gr 9mm hollow point (target kind) projectiles for the equivalent of about 7c US each.

I mainly got into reloading so I could load things that I could not easily or affordably buy (also re manufacture surplus 7.62x39 into softpoints). In order to make a subsonic round with high terminal effect could I take such a hollow point fill it with the smallest possible lead shot and wax? I will have leftover #8 lead shot from making wax slugs.

The theory being that the wax and lead shot at the nose would cause the projectile to disintegrate, explode sideways or peel from back to front, I'm not sure which, but all sound effective.

If I could buy 147gr loaded hollow points for under $1.50 I probably wouldn't bother loading 9mm. But so be it in the North, at least reloading supplies are in full supply and well priced.

Paying 38c for a proper (not just a target shooting) hollow point projectile just to blow up water jugs or dispose of varmints at close range with a carbine seems excessive to me.

I have a small supply of the expensive factory JHPs, and hundreds of the proper JHPs ready to load, but I want the thrill of making something work spectacularly (hopefully) for 1/4 the cost.

Any advice?
 
Wont work in my opinion. Hollow points expand via hydraulic pressure. Plugging the hole will cause even less expansion if anything.

I have heard of people sticking a primer in the hollow tip. I am not sure if there is any merit to it though. Might possibly be illegal. Idk.
 
A little crisco in the nose will help if the cavity is deep enough with straight walls. Too shallow or v shaped it flies out under bullet spin before impact.
 
Thank you for your comments.

CZ9 I was thinking that this would be different from lets say a tear of denim or a a circle of drywall blocking and preventing expansion.

I believe that the wax would create hydraulic pressure, especially if it was the nose and receiving first contact. Wax should be fluid under that pressure, much more fluid than the lead, and so it should create sideways and backwards pressure. The lead shot in this equation would add weight and the density of the lead should help push outwards. This is why wax slugs work so well.

sugarmaker wouldn't the wax work better than crisco because it has a gluelike property at normal temperatures with a combination of lead shot to add density and some hardness as part of the mechanical mixture? The cavity is indeed fairly deep and has straight walls. This is why I believe if it will have any deformation it will not be the conventional peeling but rather more of a disintegration or breaking apart.
 
You'd be taking a precision made, stable object and turning it into an unbalanced, unpredictable object while gaining no real advanatage
 
Basically you are trying to get the results that Hornady has already made available in the FTX ammo with the soft polymer tip. Wax may work and may not depending upon temperature. It may get too soft in hot weather or if warmed by your 98 degree body heat or not help at all in cold weather.

Nothing wrong with playing with new ideas and experimenting, just be safe. Remember that you are adding to the bullet weight, esp if you add lead shot so the powder charge needs to be adjusted to this heavier bullet.
 
After further research I am seeing that wax mimicks the hornady polymer tip effect to help expansion, but will this be enough to make a hollowpoint created for practice into one suitable for hunting or expansion? I have also read of bbs steel or otherwise being inserted into the nose to help expansion. This was done for the slower lower power pistol rounds such as .25 or .32. It seems as though a 9mm traveling at 1000fps would not need as much help and would benefit more.
 
Thanks Steve C!

Yes added weight is part of the goal actually, I want to work up to about 147gr total weight from the 124gr. So I won't just be pouring more mass into an already loaded hollow point, no cheap 147gr unfortunately.

I am not really trying to mimick the polymer tip, if I wanted to do that I would only use wax or hot glue. I want to create a frangible round with low penetration and maximum energy dispersal, like for shotguns a slug=fmj buckshot=jhp and waxslug=frangible, at least in terms of the rate of energy dispersal and disintegration.

The goal is, for about 12-13c in total considering the scrap #8 shot and a bit of scrap wax, to have a subsonic frangible 9mm.

Check out this video to explain "reverse granular impact", this is the effect which I hope will cause the frangibility.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InbyFtvHilM

Any more feedback?
 
Maybe silicone? I never had much luck with the home made glasers, the shot unbalances things. I had very good luck with lee 58 cal 440 real pure lead with a drilled 1/8 hole hollow point full of crisco in a muzzleloader. I think they are about 1.5 inches fired into a snowbank. Too much expansion for deer hunting but interesting nonetheless.
 
Snyper said:
You'd be taking a precision made, stable object and turning it into an unbalanced, unpredictable object while gaining no real advanatage
Click to expand...

^^^yep. A lot of work resulting in most likely, poorer performance. If clothing results in clogging a HP and resulting in diminished expansion, why would purposely clogging the HP be any different? While I don't fear criminal charges if having to use reloaded ammo for SD/HD, the minute you take factory components and alter them to make them supposedly more lethal, you are venturing in unknown waters and asking for problems. Stick with a quality made SD/HD bullet. They may be a tad more expensive, but isn't your life or the lives of your loved ones worth it?
 
I always liked the mercury tipped bullets. Or one filled with powdered match heads. Ice tips also work real well.

Of course the ultimate bullet is all ice - leaves no traces behind, when you are doing wet work. :neener:
 
Prolly every conceivable substance has been shoved into HP cavities to make them "work better", most with little/no success. Folks have been doing things to bullets to make them "better" since reloading began. I'm a dedicated tinkerer, and I'm guilty of such things (I even tried steel cones stuffed in HP cavities to help them expand. Fail. And I even cast bullets with alum foil to add a slot in the nose. Fail.). But it's hard to improve on science type guys, much smarter than I be, with full laboratories and test equipment at hand.

But don't stop thinkin/experimenting. You may just hit on something that'll work for you. If guys weren't thinking, we wouldn't have beer can gas checks or use metal preserver for bullet lube...:D
 
Over the years, I have heard and even seen a few of all the ideas that have come up for filling HP Cavities with something or an other. None have worked very well.

I am thinking that your idea will not do well. The first two things that come to mind, is that hot weather will cause your waxed tips to melt. Secondly, the jarring from recoil, will probably dislocate your wax fillings, while the rounds are in the magazine and your shooting.
 
If you could measure the "viscosity" or strength of the wax, and compare that to the PSI needed to open the HP you may have a place to start...

Try it Fire into some wet newsprint and let us know what happens...
 
Thank you for the feedback guys,

It seems by what some of you are saying that glasers must be impossible, that is the effect I am trying to emulate after all. It also sounds like you are saying that it is impossible to modify an existing load to be more lethal at close range. I do understand the possibility of accuracy being significantly degraded though.

The most lethal projectile that can be launched by any common small arm which is inert (aka not a grenade or missile or a .50BMG) is the 12 gauge wax slug, especially from a 3" upland game cartridge.

Glasers may not be as effective as a self defense round as a proper JHP, probably due to insufficient penetration, and there have also been comments made about whether or not it is worth the extra dimes to buy a proper load designed for that purpose. There is just one problem with those comments, the purpose is not self defense, because up here that carries a stiffer penalty than rape, robbery or murder and perhaps all of those combined :confused: :barf:

The goal is for maximum expansion/disintegration for varmints and water bottles.

Mdi the viscosity of wax is as relevant as the viscosity of water, the goal is to create a hydraulic effect where the medium is liquid under pressure and thus in compressible.

It is also interesting that people equate clogging a hollow point with clothing to clogging it with a uniform substance capable of exerting hydraulic pressure.

I will probably test a small batch of these at some point, but some more opinions would be appreciated. In the mean time there are just so many projects to take on though.
 
You might give consideration to casting your own HP's poured with a relatively soft alloy of around 10-1 they should expand as easily as you would want. Here is a link to some others have poured, Cast Hollow Points

Here are a few that I poured up for my revolvers,
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There is a Group Buy going on now for an excellent 147gr HP mold over on the CB's site Mihec 147gr It can be had in either a plain baase or with a GC. I have run the lighter plain based up to over 1100 with no issues and see no reason you couldn't easily get just under 1K with them going subsonic. Plus using almost a pure lead alloy you would have no problems getting explosive expansion from them. His molds are great and they come with a couple of pin options. I always go for them all and it's like you end up with several molds for the price of one good one. If you only need to pour a few go with the 2 cavity version, and you will have the means to have bullets from now on.
 
If anything, I would look to something harder than the jacket material to act as a "piston" and not rely on "hydraulic effect"...
 
I have the opportunity to buy 124gr 9mm hollow point (target kind) projectiles

I am not certain what you mean by "target kind" versus "proper" hollowpoint.
I know there are such things like the Berry's plated hollowpoints and the Hornady HAP.
Which or what are you talking about?

While I am not optimistic about being able to turn a stiff cosmetic hollowpoint into a violently expanding or fragmenting bullet, it seems to me that since
"The goal is for maximum expansion/disintegration for varmints and water bottles."
you are the very one to actually SHOOT THE GUN and tell us what happens.

And while we are here
"The most lethal projectile that can be launched by any common small arm which is inert (aka not a grenade or missile or a .50BMG) is the 12 gauge wax slug,"
is going to take a lot of explaining as to how a "wax slug" is more lethal than any of the several forms of lead and other metallic shotgun projectile.
Sounds like arrant nonsense to me, but I will read your sales programme.
 
By wax slug I meant lead shot and wax fired as a slug from a 12 gauge. Look at brassfetcher footage on YouTube if you don't believe me.
 
Cut shells are an inferior solution. Actually dangerous, lose loads of potential energy due to sizing down the shell itself under pressure, less accurate and also lower transmission of energy to target aka stopping power. Also good luck fitting them reliably in a magazine with very strong springs and a shotgun with a steep feed angle.

Wax slugs may have been at times the poor man's slug, but they are not for me, they are frangible slugs and have superior terminal capabilities to just about anything. And for about 20c a slug.

Slug vs Waxer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftrCtOyLrmU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_966NVdjoI

Also consider that the wax slug started with significantly less muzzle energy being a #8 birdshot, probably about a third less. Besides energy dispersion, the wound itself and wide shredding effect of hundreds of lead pellets are more effective that a single hole with single temporary and permanent cavities.
 
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