Final check

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TX1911fan

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Ok, before I head to the range to shoot my first 4 loads, I want to do a final check here to make sure I haven't committed any serious blunders. Please excuse my extreme caution, but I'd feel better if you guys who are experts can tell me if I have made any mistakes. I'll list what the manual suggests and then what I actually did with the load (I use the Lee Pro Auto Disk, so the weight is different between cases). I'm most concerned with Load #2 and the OAL. Do you think it is too short? Here goes.

Load #1 (from Hornady reloading manual)

200 grain Hornady XTP .45 cal
4.8 grains of Titegroup (loads weighed between 4.6 and 4.9 grains) [Published Max of 5.9 grains]
OAL 1.230 (actual OAL 1.231 to 1.238)
CCI large pistol primer
Starline brass
Lee factory crimp

Load #2 (from Hornady manual)

200 grain Hornady XTP .45 cal
5.2 grains of Titegroup (loads weighed between 4.9 and 5.2 grains) [Max of 5.9 grains]
OAL 1.230 (actual OAL 1.222 to 1.233)
CCI large pistol primer
Starline brass
Lee factory crimp

Load #3 (Lee manual)

200 Grain Missouri Lead RNFP .45 cal
4.8 grains of Titegroup (loads weighed between 4.6 and 4.9 grains) [Max of 5.4 grains]
OAL 1.225 (actual OAL 1.231 to 1.234)
CCI large pistol primer
Starline brass
Lee factory crimp

Load #4 (Lee manual)

200 Grain Missouri Lead RNFP .45 cal
7.8 grains of Accurate #5 (loads weighed between 7.3 and 7.6 grains) [Max of 8.7 grains]
OAL 1.190 (actual OAL 1.214 to 1.216)
CCI large pistol primer
Starline brass
Lee factory crimp
 
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My general recommendation is to cross reference 2-4 manuals before sitting down in front of the press. While rare, misprints do occur. My wife's stepdad is lucky he didn't blow up his .44 magnum blackhawk due to a misprint.

The length variation in your loads is probably due to nothing more than variance in the bullets themselves. The other thought is that the seating stem may not fit bullet X very well, which is why most die makers offer several styles.

The only problem you may encounter is the loads not having enough power to fully cycle the slide. Other than that, I'd say you should be fine.
 
I'm sorry to have to say this, but I don't like any of your listed loads. Admittedly, I've never used the Lee [Un]Pro Auto Disk before, but if the variations in throw weights you indicated are correct and are that far off from the desired weight, I know what would be the next thing I throw, and it wouldn't be the powder.

Perhaps I don't understand what you actually meant, but when seeking a 4.8 grain powder weight for example, and you get a variation from 4.6 to 4.9 with a maximum weight of 5.9 grains (!), that is completely unacceptable in my book and downright dangerous.

Do I understand your load listing correctly?

[Edit]
After re-reading your post, I think I now see that the "max" listed is the published max and not the thrown powder weight max. That makes me a little more comfortable. But the weight variations you're getting with the Lee measure are still a little large for my liking.

Your OAL's seem to be fine and the variations in them are normal IMX.
 
Yes, the max listings are the published max. According to Lee, volume of powder is more important, hence the powder disk and the VMD numbers. I wondered about a .2 or .3 variation in grain weight and if that would be a big deal or not.
 
Ditto. The weight variation you are getting is much too big. Get your charge technique down better or if that is not the problem, get a new measure. Redding RCBS, Hornady, etc.

Like Mal H said.......That wide a variation is "completely unacceptable".

My Redding throws AA #5 so close you can barely measure a difference. 700X and other big flake powders will do plus or minus about a grain or less difference. Titegroup meters plus or minus about a half a grain, at worst, for me.

Titegroup meters plus or minus about a half a grain,
Click to expand...
plus or minus a half a tenth... :banghead:

Thanks Mal H.....

and of course, I had 700X wrong as well. Plus or minus a tenth of a grain. Mathematically challenged the other day I guess. :)
 
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Check the measure carefully. Something is not right. I use the Lee pro auto disk and loads never vary more than +/- .1 with big grains and never more than +/- .05 with small grains or ball. The posted weight/volume on the Lee table always needs checking with a scale. I find the measure usually throws light compared to the table data, probably a safety thing on Lee's part, but I prefer accuracy no matter what. Make sure you are making complete strokes on the press as well. The measures require a full stroke to dump properly. Also make sure you are giving the powder time to fall from the cavity. Maybe the issue is with the scale? I quit using an electronic because it seemed to drift during a session and did not agree with my calibrated beam scales. I have 2 beams, a Lee and a RCBS, and both agree with each other every time, but not with the digital. I start re-checking every new jar of powder, there can be variations of the weight for the same powder from different lot numbers. Summary, check everything twice before you make a move. Reloading is great, but can be dangerous if you don't get it right.
 
Ok, I'm confused. Walkalong, you say Titegroup meters plus or minus .5 grains for you, which is acceptable, and my range is never bigger than .3 grains, but mine is not acceptable? Did you read that the MAX load I listed is the published max load and not the max load I weighed?

I agree that the variation is annoying, but wonder how much it matters. I am using a digital scale, but it does not seem to drift, and weighs the calibration weights exactly from beginning to end. For plinking is it really that big of a deal? It may affect accuracy, but is it dangerous?
 
I'm not going to put words in Walkalong's mouth, but knowing him from his postings here, I'll bet when he said "grain" he meant tenth of a grain. So he was saying he gets half of a tenth of a grain variations (.05 like Griz44 said) with Titegroup. That's also the kind of variations I see using an RCBS Uniflow powder measure. All of the AA single digit powders measure about as precisely as any powder you can buy. If I was getting .2 grain variations with one, I'd look into the reason - static on the tube, low volume of powder in the tube, humidity, etc.

For plinking is it really that big of a deal?
Click to expand...
No, it's not. When creating plinking loads, the variations you are getting won't make a noticeable difference.

It may affect accuracy, but is it dangerous?
Click to expand...
Not unless you are already at or near the max as determined by pressure signs.
 
your weight variations are about what my dillon measures throw,and for plinking and informal shooting will get you by as long as they cycle yor guns.Mine are 6 shooters,so no worries for me.
we did some informal testing recently ,weighing rifel charges,then just letting the powder meaasure do the work,and chrono showed no gain for the extra effort.ie: plus or minus a couiple of tenths AT MEDIUM LOAD RANGE did not matter,it seems.
of course your results on a given day with a different gun,etc could be totally different.
so,stay with the mid range loads and that few thenths will be ok for now...or forever,up to you.
 
Excellent guys, this is what was looking for. I don't even have a chrono yet, so I'm not building precision loads. Just putting holes in paper. As long as I'm not going to blow anything up I'm good.
 
A .3 grain spread in charge weights is not going to be harmful or even noticeable. Factory loads are no better.

Loads less than the usual 90% of maximum "starting load" may give you weak or unreliable function, depending on the gun. A 1911 will be more flexible than most. Nothing to do but try them out, now that you have them.

Your XTP OAL's seem a LITTLE long. I don't know about the cast bullets, those RNFPs are really revolver bullets. Have you chamber checked your loads in the barrel, clean and OUT OF THE GUN? I suggest you do so before taking them to the range.
 
Here are some measurements:

Factory round (Blazer brass, 230 grain) 1.258 (on the right)

My lead bullet 1.217 (Missouri Bullets listed these as .45 ACP bullets)

My XTP 1.226

They all fit in the chamber of my 1911 exactly the same.

dscn0571wc1.jpg
 
I figured out the problem with my load variation. Because I am reloading in my home office, I have my press bolted to a 2x10 and the whole thing clamped to a table. The clamp configuration I had before allowed a bit of flex. I've changed it to be much more stable, with no flex, and the last 10 loads I've thrown have been dead on. I thought my scale was stuck. 5.2 grains, every time.

Thanks for the help everyone.
 
I figured out the problem with my load variation. Because I am reloading in my home office, I have my press bolted to a 2x10 and the whole thing clamped to a table. The clamp configuration I had before allowed a bit of flex. I've changed it to be much more stable, with no flex, and the last 10 loads I've thrown have been dead on.
Click to expand...
I'm glad you figured it out. I was also thinking something was wrong because I can load Titegroup all day in my pro auto disk with zero variation. I was also concerned with your OAL and wondering what press you are loading on. I load on a Lee classic turret and my OAL is never off more than .003, and that's with cheap bullets.
Rusty
 
Fit the chamber?

When you say fit the chamber, did you load from the mag or just drop them.

I ask because 1911's can be a bit fussy w/ hollow points and your OAL on the XTP looks a bit long. I confess that I haven't checked a manual, but it seems long n comparison to the ball round.
 
I was more concerned that the XTPs would be too short, not too long. My first load was with the XTPs and I thought the OAL number was the max, not the min, so I was trying to get it just under. I'd prefer to be just a bit longer than the minimum so as not to increase pressure.

Going to the range with 100 rounds. I'll report back.
 
Well I shot all 100 of my rounds. No problems! I am even more excited about reloading. I notice that the hotter rounds were a little less accurate, and that there was not a noticible difference between the lead and XTP bullets. The difference in recoil between 4.8 grains and 5.2 grains of Titegroup was also not very noticible. I would have thought I'd feel the extra powder more.

Titegroup left a lot more powder reside than factory ammo, and scorched the cases pretty bad. Not that I care, just wondering if this is a problem. I inspected several cases randomly and did not see any indicatino of any pressure problems. It was a great time.
 
Great well done :D strange about the titegroup being dirty though :scrutiny: I use it in my contender pistols and found it to be very clean :neener:
 
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